Porter MF Moser!!

[steverocks35]

I seriously doubt anyone on this board thinks that way right about now. We had the best half of the season when we crushed South Carolina, so there was nothing wrong or delusional about hoping it could serve as a springboard to start playing like we did when I was sitting 30 feet from the basket that Fears made to beat Michigan. It obviously didn't happen. What did happen is that we actually played very well for most of the first half against Auburn (despite not being able to secure a rebound), and when we ultimately got crushed anyway, the team lost all of whatever confidence was built up after beating SC. Furthermore, everyone on here knows it's time to pack things up if we can't beat LSU at home.

Here is how the optimists are thinking. If we beat LSU, then we don't want to give up on the season until if / when we hit that 12th conference loss. If that happens, then we will join all of you who are thinking about next year and who the new coach will be. Of course, being excited the day Moser is fired may equate to a dog chasing a car and catching it. In other words, what happens next? Without an AD who can make a good hire or even care about basketball, not having competitive NIL money, and not having a fan base that gives a crap, and it won't matter who the head coach is. This has been a collective failure to this point, so the delusional ones are those who think all the problems will be solved once Moser is out of the picture.

I bet we can get a coach who knows when and who to substitute. I bet we can get a coach who can coach inbounds plays. And I bet we can get a coach who motivates players to play hard and not be softer than toilet tissue. Let’s start there and see what happens.

 

[Seymore Cox]

The Epitome of Porter Moser is the YouTube assistant coach who used to be active on the sidelines, and has disappeared the last few games, pops up off the bench with .7 seconds to draw up an offensive play for the end of the half.

Him and Moser spend 10 minutes drawing up an offensive play while the officials determine possession. They intensely tell the team where to line up on the possession for the inbounds pass.

The officials come back and give the ball to Mizzou. These fools didn’t draw up a counter defensive play.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Porter now has a worse winning % than he did at loyola. So now it's his 3rd worst career winning percentage of his 4 stops.

pm should BEG to go back to UA-Little rock (his first HC job, where he won his best but also played the pancakiest of all pancake seasons - see a trend?).

Also, drew Valentine has INCREASED the win percentage at loyola to better than pm's tenure.. so looks like Valentine is a better coach than pm and loyola likely wouldn't even take pm back (although Valentine did have an absolute clunker of a season back in his 2nd season).

Fire him

You have convinced me, "Hire Valentine!"

 

[Seymore Cox]

You have convinced me, "Hire Valentine!"

Valentine has increased it, but he’s struggling too. He’s 6-5 in conference.

Both have the same issue. They can’t adjust to the competition increase…..

 

[hoopsaustin]

Valentine has increased it, but he’s struggling too. He’s 6-5 in conference.

Both have the same issue. They can’t adjust to the competition increase…..

Sure but the first time coach's struggle is still better than the then-3rd time HC pm's best..

 

[Seymore Cox]

Sure but the first time coach's struggle is still better then the then-3rd time HC pm's best..

No doubt.

 

[WaymanFan]

Oh I promise you there are a handful of our regular posters who still think he is a good coach and that none of this is his fault. They blame NIL and Joe and the arena and are convinced that Moser is doing everything possible and that no one could be realistically expected to do a better job. Hell, people were making this argument right up till last night. If four years hasn’t been long enough to convince them, another in a long line of embarrassing, lopsided losses won’t be enough to change their minds.

And people don’t want to hear this, but South Carolina means nothing. They are a winless team, were missing a key player, and, in our gym, hung around for 30 minutes till we put together a good 10-minute stretch. Vandy was an incredible half of basketball, but that’s all it was … one half. That represents 1/62 of our season.

Arizona and Michigan are impressive wins, but we didn’t play the Arizona team that is in second place in their league and one of the hottest teams in the country. We played a team that was .500 through the first 8 weeks of the season and looked absolutely awful. The win helps our metrics just the same, but for people to point to that game as a way of clinging to the hope that there is something good or great within our team is silly.

And count me firmly in the group that believes wholeheartedly that a good coach could turn this around quickly, even without a massive change in any of the external factors. We have won for decades without a huge budget, without fan support, and without a good arena. In the pre-NIL era, we won while being one of the rare programs that wasn’t illegally paying guys. We won big for a dozen years under Kelvin without putting a single player in the NBA. That’s really what the NIL argument boils down to — an argument that because we don’t have money, we won’t be able to get top talent, and therefore, we won’t win. Well, with a couple notable exceptions, our program went the better part of 30 years winning a ton of games, and rarely missing the tournament, despite not having high level players. The particulars of the system have changed, but good coaches can still get more out of whatever players they do have. Guys like Loser, on the other hand, flounder when they have players like Fears, Moore, Oweh, and Uzan.

First off, those "handful of posters" are either already gone or will be gone if we can't make it to the NCAA Tournament following an undefeated out-of-conference schedule.

Secondly, in my post, I meant to say "Vanderbilt", not SC...thanks for correcting me.

As for your last paragraph, I wish I could agree with your optimism. With all of the external factors that are currently in place, I don't see us getting any better with a new coach. Yes, Coach Sampson could lure guys who were good / great college players that were not NBA-caliber players, but that is not going to happen in today's game without NIL money. Guys like Hollis Price, Corey Brewer, Drew Lavendar, Kevin Bookout, Ace McGhee, Nolan Johnson, Taj Gray, etc, are not going to play for less money at OU. We need the external commitment to effectively COMPETE.

 

[WichitaSooner]

First off, those "handful of posters" are either already gone or will be gone if we can't make it to the NCAA Tournament following an undefeated out-of-conference schedule.

Secondly, in my post, I meant to say "Vanderbilt", not SC...thanks for correcting me.

As for your last paragraph, I wish I could agree with your optimism. With all of the external factors that are currently in place, I don't see us getting any better with a new coach. Yes, Coach Sampson could lure guys who were good / great college players that were not NBA-caliber players, but that is not going to happen in today's game without NIL money. Guys like Hollis Price, Corey Brewer, Drew Lavendar, Kevin Bookout, Ace McGhee, Nolan Johnson, Taj Gray, etc, are not going to play for less money at OU. We need the external commitment to effectively COMPETE.

I hope you're right but I feel like they will still largely find a way to avoid blaming him.

I just feel like when you look around the country, you see a lot of coaches who manage to do well, even in good conferences, with relatively modest talent. I think there are dozens of coaches (no exaggeration) who would have gotten us into the tournament easily last season, no matter how many bids were stolen in conference tourneys. His coaching of that team was beyond terrible. It was as if he had no idea how to coach a team with several really athletic, talented guys. You give a decent coach Los, Oweh, Moore, and Soares, and add in pieces like JM, Dart, and Hugley -- that's a tourney team. Instead, Moser basically turned the team into the JM show, too stupid to realize that he wouldn't be able to cut it in the Big 12. The guys who should have been our featured players took a back seat, and things went in the tank. That season, in and of itself, shows me that we can still attract enough talent. And if that team plays up to their potential, I think there is a good chance guys like Los and Oweh are still around. Lots of teams lose guys to the portal, sure, but generally, if you are succeeding as a team and individual, you are less likely to bolt.

 

[BoulderSooner]

As for your last paragraph, I wish I could agree with your optimism. With all of the external factors that are currently in place, I don't see us getting any better with a new coach.

earlier in the year i would have agreed with this ..

but OU has had a failure of coaching in the last month lots and lots of coaches could do better with the same players

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Seems pretty straight forward.
We don't have the investment in bball. and you won't with a new coach.
Recruiting is going to suffer regardless of it PM is the coach or someone else comes in.
So go get someone that is strictly an x's and o's guy. I don't care if he can't recruit because we won't be getting top talent anyways.
Atleast that is how I see it

 

[The_Banker]

I hope you're right but I feel like they will still largely find a way to avoid blaming him.

I just feel like when you look around the country, you see a lot of coaches who manage to do well, even in good conferences, with relatively modest talent. I think there are dozens of coaches (no exaggeration) who would have gotten us into the tournament easily last season, no matter how many bids were stolen in conference tourneys. His coaching of that team was beyond terrible. It was as if he had no idea how to coach a team with several really athletic, talented guys. You give a decent coach Los, Oweh, Moore, and Soares, and add in pieces like JM, Dart, and Hugley -- that's a tourney team. Instead, Moser basically turned the team into the JM show, too stupid to realize that he wouldn't be able to cut it in the Big 12. The guys who should have been our featured players took a back seat, and things went in the tank. That season, in and of itself, shows me that we can still attract enough talent. And if that team plays up to their potential, I think there is a good chance guys like Los and Oweh are still around. Lots of teams lose guys to the portal, sure, but generally, if you are succeeding as a team and individual, you are less likely to bolt.

FWIW Will Wade at Mcneese with probably very limited funds:
In 2023
won @VCU
Won @Michigan

In 2024:
Lost @ Alabama by 8, and only lost the rebound battle 36-35!!! and won the tunrover battle 13-15, OU lost both by 51-26 Rebounds and 11-9
Lost @ Mississippi State by 3, Won rebound battle 39-35

PS the tallest player on there team is 6'9 lol

 

[IndySooner]

FWIW Will Wade at Mcneese with probably very limited funds:
In 2023
won @VCU
Won @Michigan

In 2024:
Lost @ Alabama by 8, and only lost the rebound battle 36-35!!! and won the tunrover battle 13-15, OU lost both by 51-26 Rebounds and 11-9
Lost @ Mississippi State by 3, Won rebound battle 39-35

PS the tallest player on there team is 6'9 lol

If the Joe’s are making this hire, Will Wade will be nowhere near the job. That’s a fact.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Seems pretty straight forward.
We don't have the investment in bball. and you won't with a new coach.
Recruiting is going to suffer regardless of it PM is the coach or someone else comes in.
So go get someone that is strictly an x's and o's guy. I don't care if he can't recruit because we won't be getting top talent anyways.
Atleast that is how I see it

Yall better buckle up.. i heard again from my friend's guy. We = no money. Might be another run unless we lose big imo or if pm wants out..

 

[WichitaSooner]

Yall better buckle up.. i heard again from my friend's guy. We = no money. Might be another run unless we lose big imo or if pm wants out..

Well, if that is truly the case, I think there is no question that, as painful as it may be in the short term, it would be best for the program if we get smoked several more times this season. Even if the current plan is to bring him back because we don't want to pay the relatively paltry $4-5M buyout, I could see that changing if we end up 4-14 or 5-13 with several more noncompetitive losses. It just feels hopeless as long as he is the coach.

 

[AnotherSoonerInTX]

Yall better buckle up.. i heard again from my friend's guy. We = no money. Might be another run unless we lose big imo or if pm wants out..

This jives with the article Berry Tramel wrote in the Tulsa World last week. It's behind a paywall.

Berry wrote that for financial reasons, buyouts of BV and PM are a bad idea. When the OU athletic department wants to communicate a message, they use Berry to do it. OU is indicating that firings are off the table as long as big buyouts are in play.

Now if PM wants another job, that's another story. He'd take a cut in pay, but it would prolong his career. He and OU would have to negotiate the buyout.

 

[cowboysooner]

There is another significant issue at play being considered by OU re terminating contracts early. Prospective head coaches are negotiating guaranteed NIL commitments from schools as a condition for accepting a job. Calipari did this with Kentucky. He demanded $12 million a year in NIL as a part of his contract. What proven head coach would take a job at OU if they couldn't get a particular commitment (that maybe OU can't or won't commit to) that, in their mind, would allow them to be successful. Who would take the OU basketball job if they knew they would have the least amount of NIL in the SEC. It would be job and career suicide. Same with Football coaches.

There are lots of things I don't like about Moser as a coach, but he has proven he can win with the right players. Can he win in the SEC, maybe not. Can he ever win in the SEC without the NIL funds to secure top end talent, NO, and nor can any other coach. So, you might as well stay with Moser until the end of his contract. Then, if need be, look for a second tier or unproven assistant that is a "dreamer" and needs a job, who cons and rationalizes to himself that he is such a good coach he can win with inadequate NIL. We might could get lucky, you never know. But, if this is our plight, then I don't see why we would spend millions to buy out a contract unless there is conduct related cause, where the buyout can be avoided. That will never be true with BV or Moser.

And, JMO, and what do I know, but I think BV will succeed and win big at OU with the patience needed. I'm not so sure with Porter, and at the moment, would probably side with he won't ever win much at OU.

 

[hoopsaustin]

There are lots of things I don't like about Moser as a coach, but he has proven he can win with the right players [in 2 of his 21 seasons as a HC].

Fixed it for you. I do not think he has proven he can win.

 

[steverocks35]

There is another significant issue at play being considered by OU re terminating contracts early. Prospective head coaches are negotiating guaranteed NIL commitments from schools as a condition for accepting a job. Calipari did this with Kentucky. He demanded $12 million a year in NIL as a part of his contract. What proven head coach would take a job at OU if they couldn't get a particular commitment (that maybe OU can't or won't commit to) that, in their mind, would allow them to be successful. Who would take the OU basketball job if they knew they would have the least amount of NIL in the SEC. It would be job and career suicide. Same with Football coaches.

There are lots of things I don't like about Moser as a coach, but he has proven he can win with the right players. Can he win in the SEC, maybe not. Can he ever win in the SEC without the NIL funds to secure top end talent, NO, and nor can any other coach. So, you might as well stay with Moser until the end of his contract. Then, if need be, look for a second tier or unproven assistant that is a "dreamer" and needs a job, who cons and rationalizes to himself that he is such a good coach he can win with inadequate NIL. We might could get lucky, you never know. But, if this is our plight, then I don't see why we would spend millions to buy out a contract unless there is conduct related cause, where the buyout can be avoided. That will never be true with BV or Moser.

And, JMO, and what do I know, but I think BV will succeed and win big at OU with the patience needed. I'm not so sure with Porter, and at the moment, would probably side with he won't ever win much at OU.

He can’t design a functional inbounds play. Let’s find someone who can at least do that.

 

[bcsooner]

Yall better buckle up.. i heard again from my friend's guy. We = no money. Might be another run unless we lose big imo or if pm wants out..

If your friend is right, this is damning. Never in a million years did I think our athletic dept was that low on funds and resources that we couldn't afford a 6 million buck buyout on a guy that needs to be relieved - for our sake and his. To be this frugal in a league like the SEC is not sustainable. The apparent inability to pay buyouts (BV, Porter etc.), improve facilities and offer competitive NIL to other sports outside of football and softball is proof we're not in a good spot.

Also, the loss of guys like Toby Keith is bigger than many really knew. Not only a great fan and all around dude, he was one of the more ardent financial supporters of hoops and football (fortune was worth half a billion at death). Considering we're low on big money donors as it is, losing his level of generosity is tangible as he would've been all in on the NIL era.

 

[hoopsaustin]

If your friend is right, this is damning. Never in a million years did I think our athletic dept was that low on funds and resources that we couldn't afford a 6 million buck buyout on a guy that needs to be relieved - for our sake and his. To be this frugal in a league like the SEC is not sustainable. The apparent inability to pay buyouts (BV, Porter etc.), improve facilities and offer competitive NIL to other sports outside of football and softball is proof we're not in a good spot.

Also, the loss of guys like Toby Keith is bigger than many really knew. Not only a great fan and all around dude, he was one of the more ardent financial supporters of hoops and football (fortune was worth half a billion at death). Considering we're low on big money donors as it is, losing his level of generosity is tangible as he would've been all in on the NIL era.

To be clear, I think we COULD buy out pm if we really wanted to.. but with a possible football HC firing looming and Joe C's malpractice with the gratuitous extension, we practically cannot bc football makes more $$ than bball