Post scoring

[Soonerinkc]

Kansas is very average, we are the better team. ku will be gone after the first weekend. as usual.

OU Final 4

hard to overcome the refs when they help ku in big moments of games. the warning on cousins was bush league. stopped the roll we were on and we were about to go on a huge roll..

facts are facts....

OU

umm, no, ou is not the better team....you really think that? Yeah, Buddy is better than anything they have but as far as a team, no way.

* I frickin hate ku..like most of you guys hate osu or ut. BUT I also am realist.

 

[AdaSooner]

I didn't see a lot of facts there.

Unfortunately, I think KU is the better team.

The warning wasn't just on Cousins, but they warned Mason too. And it didn't stop our roll, it stopped a KU fast break with numbers.

Good teams have average games, just as average teams have good games. You asked for facts that KU is an average team. Their loss in Stillwater to one of the worst teams in the Big 12 and easily the worst in the Travis Ford era should be enough to convince you of that.

Our porous defense, cold shooting and failure to block out on the boards certainly contributed to the loss on Saturday. But while KU couldn't have played any better, OU couldn't have played any worse for all but about ten minutes of the second half.

If they meet again in the Big 12 tournament, OU will win.

 

[stormspencer]

Coachtalk, skyvue, and stormspencer; is this newbie still making a clown thread? Maybe I was right!

No, it was a clown thread because you called OU a pretender. I have no issue with any poster who talks about our shortcomings and what we need to improve upon, but when you make a dumb@ss blanket statement based on emotion.....than it is a clown thread.

And I don't think you would find any disagreement on here regarding our lack of point production in the post, but it is because we are a perimeter-oriented team. There are only a handful of teams with a traditional "low-post" scoring component that would be considered Final 4 threats, but those teams have their warts as well. To conclude we are a "pretender" just because we don't have that component this year is silly and lacks an overall understanding of other teams in the mix this year.

 

[sdcloud9]

OU isn't going to pick up a low post scorer on waivers.....

They are what they are.

What if all OU's guards get hot in March? Can they win it? Sure then can.

I'm more concerned with defense and rebounding than offense.

 

[WTSooner]

What if all OU's guards get hot in March? Can they win it? Sure then can.

It's not just a "hot or not" issue though. It's no coincidence that our shooting has gone cold as we've played better competition.

 

[AdaSooner]

Coachtalk, skyvue, and stormspencer; is this newbie still making a clown thread? Maybe I was right!

Maybe it's time to set the record straight about why you caught some heat on that thread. The post you made where you called OU a "pretender" is what got posters riled up:

Without it, OU is a pretender not a contender.

Keep in mind, that post was made on the 23rd of January after our loss to ISU in Ames (only our second loss of the season), but before we beat a much bigger Baylor team by ten in Waco.

It had very little to do with the notion that OU needed more scoring from the post. On the contrary, I think the majority of posters on this board agreed with you back then, and still do, that scoring from the post is not a weakness to be ignored. I can't recall a time the entire season when our discussions have centered on how fortunate we are to have even above average scoring from the post positions.

While it would be nice if one or more of our bigs suddenly turned into a scoring machine, it should be obvious to everyone by now that this team will only go as far as our backcourt will take us.

 

[soonerjunky]

No, it was a clown thread because you called OU a pretender. I have no issue with any poster who talks about our shortcomings and what we need to improve upon, but when you make a dumb@ss blanket statement based on emotion.....than it is a clown thread.

And I don't think you would find any disagreement on here regarding our lack of point production in the post, but it is because we are a perimeter-oriented team. There are only a handful of teams with a traditional "low-post" scoring component that would be considered Final 4 threats, but those teams have their warts as well. To conclude we are a "pretender" just because we don't have that component this year is silly and lacks an overall understanding of other teams in the mix this year.

Let's be clear on what I call a pretender. My definition is a good team that can beat many people, but lacks something i.e. POST PLAYERS, to actually win the whole thing. This is a very good team, the best shooting team in OU history. However, the post play really is a problem. NOT A CLOWN THREAD! I do post in a way to get all fans interested in the subject.

Serious question for all fans here. Since OU is a shooting team, would it not be beneficial to just try and outrebound other teams? Go big? Keep Spangler at the 4 and replace the 5 with a big, (AK or Jamuni?) I not mention Lattin only because he gets pushed around down low.

 

[CoachTalk]

Let's be clear on what I call a pretender. My definition is a good team that can beat many people, but lacks something i.e. POST PLAYERS, to actually win the whole thing. This is a very good team, the best shooting team in OU history. However, the post play really is a problem. NOT A CLOWN THREAD! I do post in a way to get all fans interested in the subject.

Serious question for all fans here. Since OU is a shooting team, would it not be beneficial to just try and outrebound other teams? Go big? Keep Spangler at the 4 and replace the 5 with a big, (AK or Jamuni?) I not mention Lattin only because he gets pushed around down low.

Do watch the games we play?

Every team lacks something, great 3pt shooter, big man, slasher etc....
So is everyone a pretender?

 

[bgrch1350]

Kansas is very average, we are the better team. ku will be gone after the first weekend. as usual.

OU Final 4

hard to overcome the refs when they help ku in big moments of games. the warning on cousins was bush league. stopped the roll we were on and we were about to go on a huge roll..

facts are facts....

OU

It cracks me up that any of you thinks this is an average ku team. Best team they've had since their championship team. Ellis is one of the top players in college. They have point guards, shooters, rebounders, low post scorers, and probably the best bench in the country.

 

[AdaSooner]

It's not just a "hot or not" issue though. It's no coincidence that our shooting has gone cold as we've played better competition.

The stats do not support your claim. I didn't include the good but unranked teams on our schedule OU beat handily. As you will see, two of the losses we had on the road were not the result of cold shooting. There may be other reasons for those losses, but shooting from the perimeter was not one of them.

ISU (win) 43% from the field; 38% from three
Nova (win) 47% from the field; 54% from three
KU (loss) 41% from the field; 49% from three
Baylor (win) 62% from the field; 57% from three
ISU (loss) 42% from the field; 53% from three
UT (win) 40% from the field; 41% from three

Unless I missed something, OU has had three poor shooting performances so far this season. Two (at K-State and at home against KU) resulted in a loss; one (WVU at home) was still a win.

 

[WTSooner]

The stats do not support your claim. I didn't include the good but unranked teams on our schedule OU beat handily. As you will see, two of the losses we had on the road were not the result of cold shooting. There may be other reasons for those losses, but shooting from the perimeter was not one of them.

ISU (win) 43% from the field; 38% from three
Nova (win) 47% from the field; 54% from three
KU (loss) 41% from the field; 49% from three
Baylor (win) 62% from the field; 57% from three
ISU (loss) 42% from the field; 53% from three
UT (win) 40% from the field; 41% from three

Unless I missed something, OU has had three poor shooting performances so far this season. Two (at K-State and at home against KU) resulted in a loss; one (WVU at home) was still a win.

It's not a perfect science. It doesn't mean we're going to struggle against every good Big 12 team with good athletes.

Split the season into 2, or 3, by opponent RPI. Guarantee there is a drop off as the competition rises. This isn't a case of our guys just slumping. They are being guarded better. Opposing teams are forcing us out of our spots, and the ball into the hands of Spangler and Lattin more. They aren't leaving Buddy at all. They are denying Buddy in certain areas (if they have a defender that can do this). They are playing us different in transition. Forcing Woodard to drive, which isn't a strength.

That is all stuff that happens when a) you start playing against better athletes, and b) teams start to figure out your trends, or comfort zones. I know everybody here thinks Buddy and Cousins hang the moon, but they really aren't complete players. Both have a lot of holes in their offensive games that can be exposed at times. That is what you'd seen in recent weeks.

JMO, of course. But to say, well, if OU continues hitting threes at a record pace we'll be okay and can beat anybody, is silly. Nobody should have expected that kind of shooting to continue. This isn't a team made up of in their prime Ray Allen and Reggie Millers. It's a regression to the mean, that is what we are seeing.

 

[AdaSooner]

It's not a perfect science. It doesn't mean we're going to struggle against every good Big 12 team with good athletes.

Split the season into 2, or 3, by opponent RPI. Guarantee there is a drop off as the competition rises. This isn't a case of our guys just slumping. They are being guarded better. Opposing teams are forcing us out of our spots, and the ball into the hands of Spangler and Lattin more. They aren't leaving Buddy at all. They are denying Buddy in certain areas (if they have a defender that can do this). They are playing us different in transition. Forcing Woodard to drive, which isn't a strength.

That is all stuff that happens when a) you start playing against better athletes, and b) teams start to figure out your trends, or comfort zones. I know everybody here thinks Buddy and Cousins hang the moon, but they really aren't complete players. Both have a lot of holes in their offensive games that can be exposed at times. That is what you'd seen in recent weeks.

JMO, of course. But to say, well, if OU continues hitting threes at a record pace we'll be okay and can beat anybody, is silly. Nobody should have expected that kind of shooting to continue. This isn't a team made up of in their prime Ray Allen and Reggie Millers. It's a regression to the mean, that is what we are seeing.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. My response was to your comment that "It's no coincidence that our shooting has gone cold as we've played better competition" and that simply is not the case. Truth is, this team has only had three poor shooting performances the entire season. Unfortunately, two of those games resulted in a loss.

I, for one, was definitely not under the illusion that the hot shooting we have enjoyed in most games would continue. I also knew beating a good team, especially on the road, would not be easy if two or more of our perimeter shooters had off nights.

Soonerjunky was not wrong when he said we needed more scoring from the post. Only a fool would believe otherwise. But, that's not why he caught some flack. It was for saying OU is a "pretender" Does this team have weaknesses? Sure. Every team in the country has weaknesses to some degree. He explained what he meant by that statement. But the fact remains the posters who objected to what he said, took it to mean the literal interpretation of the word "pretender."

 

[Soonerinkc]

I also knew beating a good team, especially on the road, would not be easy if two or more of our perimeter shooters had off nights.

Soonerjunky was not wrong when he said we needed more scoring from the post. "

#1 yes

#2 and if not actualy scoring, at least the THREAT of scoring. Reality is Spang and Lattin are "junk scorers" in my opinion, put-backs, fast breaks, with an occasional actual "play" or expected score from them.

 

[AdaSooner]

Reality is Spang and Lattin are "junk scorers" in my opinion, put-backs, fast breaks, with an occasional actual "play" or expected score from them.

I never really thought about Spangler and Lattin as "junk scorers," but agree that most of the points they get are the result of put-backs and fast breaks.

Except for the occasional play you referenced in the form of a pick and roll to Khadeem or giving Ryan the option of taking a shot from the perimeter or driving to the hole, neither player gets much of an opportunity to score in our guard-oriented offense. It might be interesting to see what they can do if given more of a chance.

 

[Soonerinkc]

lol, that's what I call them..

the problem is, with that being their main "threat" vs a baseline 8 ft jump shot..or back to the basket type play the def can play off of them more than a post with more off threat, such as Ellis and Lucas.

 

[soonerjunky]

lol, that's what I call them..

the problem is, with that being their main "threat" vs a baseline 8 ft jump shot..or back to the basket type play the def can play off of them more than a post with more off threat, such as Ellis and Lucas.

I couldn't agree more! Just need a guy that's not a "Junk Scorer".

 

[usedtobe1]

There were 2 shots down the stretch that I didn't like. First, after Graham hit 2 FT's to go up by 73-71, Lattin decided to take the ball to the hole and create a shot. It wasn't the time or place. Secondly, with OU down 75-72 I thought the 3-pointer that Cousins tried from about 25 feet with 14 seconds left was too quick and we could have gotten a better shot.

 

[oudna]

Post scoring is the fullback position in football. Nobody uses it, but fans cry about it.

 

[bgrch1350]

Post scoring is the fullback position in football. Nobody uses it, but fans cry about it.

Tell that to duke who won a championship with it last year.

 

[Soonerinkc]

okay, I know this is NOT the thread to say this...but I just have to! lol, it's getting the most traffic...

They just showed the "pick"....MOVING SCREEN by ellis...his "hand off then pick" gave graham the open 3...I believe at the end of the game, OU up by 1 I think..

WTH...you got to be kidding me.

Haven't watched game...recorded it...