So what strengths will this team have for the new coach?

[Section31]

How about 20 wins with last year's schedule?

I don't think people realize how little it would have taken to get this team in the Dance picture, or at least to 20 wins.

Beat Chaminade
Beat Virginia (.500 record this year)
Beat Nebraska at home.
Beat TT on the road.

Those 4 games, I don't think anybody could argue that slightly better coaching gets it done. That is 18 wins.

Other winnable games with better coaching:
Arkansas
Cincy
vs aTm
@ Baylor
@ OSU

And I'd argue that @KSU, @Mizzou, and @aTm were all winnable too, but those aren't as "clear cut." Note that I said winnable, not games we should win.

I agree it looks good on paper, but the team in Maui was a shell of the team we finished with. I've said that before that if this team were to play that Maui schedule again, they win 2 more games.

The won a game against Colorado they probably didn't have any business winning so the NU game is probably a wash.

Other than that, I agree with your point, but it's not that easy and I'm not sure this team, with its holes, would have won many more games with John Wooden on the bench...

 

[AdaSooner]

Let me answer that one: No, they (meaning some posters) must continually badmouth Capel in order to feel good about themselves.

And some of those who are now praising our current players are the same ones that were saying those same players could never be Big XII caliber only a few weeks ago.

So you think we should pretend that everything is hunky dory now that Capel is gone and say nothing? He's the one who recruited and coached every player on our roster the past two years, which happened to be our worst two seasons in forty years or more. And that doesn't include what may turn out to be more trouble ahead with the NCAA. Fans like me who are plenty miffed about the mess he left us in can't get over it that easily. It will pass in time, but it's way too soon for that.

As for our current players, I feel the same as I did several weeks ago. Our kids will compete and may actually be better, if Osby is as good as I think he'll be. But if the new coach doesn't bring in more scoring at the guard position in the form of a one or two, or both, to replace Cade's outside shooting, plus a big to help on defense and the boards, we'll struggle mightily to make the post season again. I sure hope I'm wrong!

 

[TINY]

I agree it looks good on paper, but the team in Maui was a shell of the team we finished with. I've said that before that if this team were to play that Maui schedule again, they win 2 more games.

The won a game against Colorado they probably didn't have any business winning so the NU game is probably a wash.

Other than that, I agree with your point, but it's not that easy and I'm not sure this team, with its holes, would have won many more games with John Wooden on the bench...

True dat. They were like 350th in rebounding.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

So you think we should pretend that everything is hunky dory now that Capel is gone and say nothing? He's the one who recruited and coached every player on our roster the past two years, which happened to be our worst two seasons in forty years or more. And that doesn't include what may turn out to be more trouble ahead with the NCAA. Fans like me who are plenty miffed about the mess he left us in can't get over it that easily. It will pass in time, but it's way too soon for that.

As for our current players, I feel the same as I did several weeks ago. Our kids will compete and may actually be better, if Osby is as good as I think he'll be. But if the new coach doesn't bring in more scoring at the guard position in the form of a one or two, or both, to replace Cade's outside shooting, plus a big to help on defense and the boards, we'll struggle mightily to make the post season again. I sure hope I'm wrong!

Nothing against you Ada......but you can be upset about the state of the program but Capel was also saddled with sanctions, etc thanks to Sampson. THAT in itself hurt recruiting as well. But I still see people bashing Capel for his coaching...and I don't think it was the X's and O's that were the problem...it was reaching on too many borderline prospects when recruiting. He recruited some very good players but took some flyers on some that were make or break kids and that broke more than they made.

One thing I keep reading people on here say "we need more scoring from the PG position" or we "need a scoring pg".....why? I would MUCH rather have a pg that INITIATES, DOESN'T TURN THE BALL OVER, and LEADS rather than scores. If your pg is taking a bunch of shots then the rest of your team isn't involved. I've never been a big fan of high scoring pg's. We definitely need some scorers and SIZE even more. I think this team is solid with a good big or two....and we could use a scorer more than another pg in my opinion. I think Blair is servicable but just not top tier in the Big XII......it is going to take a couple of years to get the talent we need.........we just need a good evaluator of talent to come in and improve over the next couple of years.

 

[thebigabd]

I think Cameron Clark and Romero Osby are legit Big 12 starters.. Everyone else is a role player or questionable.

Even though Fitz made huge improvement, he didnt have more than 6 rebounds in any Big 12 game and that was twice in 16 games. Everything else was 5 or fewer rebounds. Thats embarrassingly bad. He also plays no defense.

Can a player be considered a starter caliber player when he is the worst rebounder/defender in the league?

Pledger seems like a shooter off the bench, but I really wouldnt be surprised to see him develop and be more consistent shooting, making him a legit starter option at shooting guard.

Tyler Neal is the X-factor for next season... he showed glimpses, but is he ready to put it all together? What position will he play? How does he fit in with Clark at the 3 and Romero at the 4? Lots of questions around him, but he seems like a potentially nice player.

 

[AdaSooner]

Nothing against you Ada......but you can be upset about the state of the program but Capel was also saddled with sanctions, etc thanks to Sampson. THAT in itself hurt recruiting as well. But I still see people bashing Capel for his coaching...and I don't think it was the X's and O's that were the problem...it was reaching on too many borderline prospects when recruiting. He recruited some very good players but took some flyers on some that were make or break kids and that broke more than they made.

One thing I keep reading people on here say "we need more scoring from the PG position" or we "need a scoring pg".....why? I would MUCH rather have a pg that INITIATES, DOESN'T TURN THE BALL OVER, and LEADS rather than scores. If your pg is taking a bunch of shots then the rest of your team isn't involved. I've never been a big fan of high scoring pg's. We definitely need some scorers and SIZE even more. I think this team is solid with a good big or two....and we could use a scorer more than another pg in my opinion. I think Blair is servicable but just not top tier in the Big XII......it is going to take a couple of years to get the talent we need.........we just need a good evaluator of talent to come in and improve over the next couple of years.

NCSooner, nothing you said I disagree with, except the state of the program when Capel took over. I'm one of those who thought Sampson left the cupboard pretty bare back then, but not now. Take a look at OU's roster in 2007 and tell me if you could have found a way to win with those guys? There was a lot of talent on that team. I would have given my right arm to have some of those kids on our roster this season.

http://www.soonerstats.com/basketball/men/players/roster.cfm?SeasonID=2007

I also agree with your description of the point guard we need next year. If you'll check my earlier post, you'll see that I specifically addressed turnovers as a concern. If Blair can improve his handles and his lateral quickness in the off season, we won't have to worry about a starting point guard. He has all of the tools otherwise. He just needs to be more consistent with making the right decisions and taking better care of the ball. If he can improve just a little on the defensive end, a good zone or solid help defense should take care of the rest. I'm a Carl Blair fan. I just get frustrated when he makes unforced turnovers, mostly due a loss of concentration.

I stand by my comment that we need more scoring from the guard position, though. Newell may be able to fill the void in perimeter scoring Cade left, providing he's doesn't have to worry about backing up the point. But I'd feel a lot better if we had one more option. A big that will give us more size and depth is at the top of my wish list.

 

[afaSooner]

I think Cameron Clark and Romero Osby are legit Big 12 starters.. Everyone else is a role player or questionable.

Even though Fitz made huge improvement, he didnt have more than 6 rebounds in any Big 12 game and that was twice in 16 games. Everything else was 5 or fewer rebounds. Thats embarrassingly bad. He also plays no defense.

Can a player be considered a starter caliber player when he is the worst rebounder/defender in the league?
Pledger seems like a shooter off the bench, but I really wouldnt be surprised to see him develop and be more consistent shooting, making him a legit starter option at shooting guard.

Tyler Neal is the X-factor for next season... he showed glimpses, but is he ready to put it all together? What position will he play? How does he fit in with Clark at the 3 and Romero at the 4? Lots of questions around him, but he seems like a potentially nice player.

I think when Fitz get's a little help on the boards and isn't fighting big bodies by himself, you'll see him nab a few more. I'm sorry but if I'm a post player on defense and there's Cade Davis and Fitz battling me underneath, I'm probably worried more about Fitz. I'm sure this was the case more often than not which didn't help Fitz rake in rebounds of any sort. I don't think Fitz is athletic enough to average double figures in rebounds or anything.

 

[Dr Sleep]

PG Blair/Newel
SG Pledger
SF Cam Clarke
PF Fitz
PF Osby

Hmm, i would say that is not horrible, and they all seem to have much more potential, however depending one how each develops will be the key. If they don't develop, we could be outmatched at all 5 spots against some teams.

 

[NickZepp]

If we add a big guy that can defend and rebound. We'll have a pretty decent roster. Not a lot of depth, kinda slow still. But pretty decent. Enough to get maybe an NIT bid out of in year one.

 

[afaSooner]

If we add a big guy that can defend and rebound. We'll have a pretty decent roster. Not a lot of depth, kinda slow still. But pretty decent. Enough to get maybe an NIT bid out of in year one.

NIT is the definite goal. Anything more is gravy.

 

[scrybe]

I think those who believe we'll ever get serviceable minutes from Calvin Newell at point guard are just kidding themselves. Now don't get me wrong; I love Calvin's athleticism, his attitude and the fact that he is apparently committed to becoming a good player for the Sooners. He seems to be a great kid and I'm one of his biggest fans.

But I believe if there is a bright future for Calvin at OU, it will be at the 2-guard position. If the game ever slows down for him, I can envision games where Calvin will score 20-25 points, mostly by driving to the basket and getting to the FT line. Calvin, in my opinion, has a scorer's mentality, and his talents are best suited to playing at the 2-guard.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Apparently Joe C saw a program that he felt was on a dangerous declining slope. He has not been a quick trigger guy and logically should be expected to give one of his hires a little more rope.The Blake firing was a no brainer and probably the change that brought Joe to OU was part of a plan to make a change in football.

Us internet coaching gurus will probably neve know the full story. There are a lot of things that go on in a major college sports program that even the internet doesn't reveal. And this does not mean that Capel is a bad guy or that he can't become a successful Div I coach.

I think we have a decent nucleus. I think Fitz as a forward will be solid. Clark has promise and should improve a great deal in the next two years. I couldn't stand Blair on the court early on as his man just drove unimpeded to the hoop. But he grew on me as the season progressed and I think he can become a workable point guard. Hopefully Osby is as good as proclaimed.

I am usually a glass half full person but I could never feel totally at ease with the program. It bothered me that VCU became a better team after Capel left and you could rationalize that it was with Capel's recruits. The severe beatdowns and late season collapses were troubling. It just seemed that the supposed uptempo offense had difficulty outscoring Sampsons supossed dreary offense. And the defense has been solid at times and hapless at other times like at Texas Tech.

I was excited about recruiting until the all-americans went sour and the top prospects stopped coming.

I don't think it serves any purpose to look backward as I guess I have just done. Let's hope Joe C hits another home run and better days are ahead for OU men's basketball.

 

[scrybe]

So you think we should pretend that everything is hunky dory now that Capel is gone and say nothing?

No, I think the Capel era is over and it's high time that we all just move on. Let's get a new coach hired, support him and look forward to seeing Sooner basketball return to its glory days.

 

[Big Old Booger]

How about 20 wins with last year's schedule?

I don't think people realize how little it would have taken to get this team in the Dance picture, or at least to 20 wins.

Beat Chaminade
Beat Virginia (.500 record this year)
Beat Nebraska at home.
Beat TT on the road.

Those 4 games, I don't think anybody could argue that slightly better coaching gets it done. That is 18 wins.

Other winnable games with better coaching:
Arkansas
Cincy
vs aTm
@ Baylor
@ OSU

And I'd argue that @KSU, @Mizzou, and @aTm were all winnable too, but those aren't as "clear cut." Note that I said winnable, not games we should win.

I agree with this. In fact, I posted the following just last week and not many agreed with me:

We had 3 top 150 recruits (Pledger, Fitz, and Clark) as well as Cade Davis. We probably have more talent than some of the Big 12 teams who are still playing and yet we only won 5 conference games.

With better coaching I think we would have won the following games:
Chaminade
Cincy
Arkansas
@ OSU
@ Baylor
Nebraska
@ Tech

That would make our record 9-7 in conference and 21-11 overall.

 

[DenverSooner]

Nothing against you Ada......but you can be upset about the state of the program but Capel was also saddled with sanctions, etc thanks to Sampson. THAT in itself hurt recruiting as well. But I still see people bashing Capel for his coaching...and I don't think it was the X's and O's that were the problem...it was reaching on too many borderline prospects when recruiting. He recruited some very good players but took some flyers on some that were make or break kids and that broke more than they made.

One thing I keep reading people on here say "we need more scoring from the PG position" or we "need a scoring pg".....why? I would MUCH rather have a pg that INITIATES, DOESN'T TURN THE BALL OVER, and LEADS rather than scores. If your pg is taking a bunch of shots then the rest of your team isn't involved. I've never been a big fan of high scoring pg's. We definitely need some scorers and SIZE even more. I think this team is solid with a good big or two....and we could use a scorer more than another pg in my opinion. I think Blair is servicable but just not top tier in the Big XII......it is going to take a couple of years to get the talent we need.........we just need a good evaluator of talent to come in and improve over the next couple of years.

OU was not really saddled with signficant sanctions when Caple came to OU. The sanctions were self imposed and lasted for two years (plus probation which is meaningless so long as you don't get in trouble). The first year was the main year (two scholarships and restrictions on recruiting). Sampson was the coach for that season. The second season was one scholarship and OU did not have a full roster so it had zero impact on Capel.

Capel did get screwed by Sampson's last recruiting class falling apart. Honestly, that hurt him a lot more than the sanctions.

 

[StatGeek]

OU was not really saddled with signficant sanctions when Caple came to OU. The sanctions were self imposed and lasted for two years (plus probation which is meaningless so long as you don't get in trouble). The first year was the main year (two scholarships and restrictions on recruiting). Sampson was the coach for that season. The second season was one scholarship and OU did not have a full roster so it had zero impact on Capel.

Capel did get screwed by Sampson's last recruiting class falling apart. Honestly, that hurt him a lot more than the sanctions.

Nailed it