TCU Gets Notice of Allegations from NCAA

[mict085]

One thing is clear with this thread and others like it. The OU basketball fan and the program should not concern themselves with winning conference titles or, heaven forbid, a national title. We should all just be happy making the tourney. That’s it. That is what the OU basketball program has become. We should just concern ourselves with making the tourney and being above mediocre. Anything more is a pipe dream and we shouldn’t dare to chase that dream.

If that’s the case, cut the budget in half and redistribute that money to football, softball, and gymnastics where those programs can continue to chase greatness. If we’re accepting slightly above mediocre, we’re paying too much for it.

We need to go all in or stop pretending we care.

 

[WichitaSooner]

One thing is clear with this thread and others like it. The OU basketball fan and the program should not concern themselves with winning conference titles or, heaven forbid, a national title. We should all just be happy making the tourney. That’s it. That is what the OU basketball program has become. We should just concern ourselves with making the tourney and being above mediocre. Anything more is a pipe dream and we shouldn’t dare to chase that dream.

If that’s the case, cut the budget in half and redistribute that money to football, softball, and gymnastics where those programs can continue to chase greatness. If we’re accepting slightly above mediocre, we’re paying too much for it.

We need to go all in or stop pretending we care.

If you think making the tournament every year is "slightly above mediocre," you are being willfully ignorant. There are only a handful of schools to make it it 7 of the past 8 years, and we are one of them.

 

[skyvue]

We need to go all in or stop pretending we care.

What's going all in? Hiring a new coach every five years if the current one hasn't at least made it to the Final Four over that span?

You're done with Kruger. We get it. So what will the next coach have to do to satisfy you? How long a leash will he get? Will you be ok with him playing a little dirty on recruiting trail? How often will he need to win the conference title outright over a five-year span to stay off the hot seat? If he makes it to a Final Four but misses out on the tourney the other four seasons, will that suffice?

The naysayers have come up with a very specific and particular metric for Kruger: Conference play is all that matters. They discount, if not outright dismiss, all other accomplishments. That we've played one of the toughest schedules year in and year out, consistently put up a good-to-very-good non-conference record, made the tourney almost every year, made a Sweet 16 and a Final Four -- none of that matters. He gets credit for none of that. Conference play is the only metric (and even when we finish third in the conference in a year we were picked, I think, sixth, no credit is given).

So step up. Spell it out. Be as specific with this hypothetical new coach as you are with Kruger. Do it in advance, so we'll know what you'll be expecting and demanding and *****ing about if it doesn't happen.

Because otherwise the demands will just change every year, the goal posts will be moved, so to speak. The metrics will be fluid, changeable to fit whatever has you guys disgruntled on a given day, week or month. And you'll be calling for that guy's head, too.

 

[thegreyghost]

Maybe OU basketball fans should worry about showing up to games....might help recruiting a bit, but that rarely happens for the last 40 + years

 

[soonerchuck]

I agree with skyvue and BCSooners. We are a football school that does well due in part to having a great tradition in the sport. Our basketball tradition is pretty good but will likely never be able to compete with Kansas unless we should fall into some local talent like Blake or Wayman or Alvin Adams (or Tre if he would have stayed for longer that 1 year). I would rather stay with the definitely above average performance and superior integrity of Lon then take a very risky shot at a new coach prematurely by pushing out Lon. But my knowledge of basketball is very limited so I will be happy to go with whatever Joe C. deems appropriate.

 

[WTSooner]

I agree with skyvue and BCSooners. We are a football school that does well due in part to having a great tradition in the sport. Our basketball tradition is pretty good but will likely never be able to compete with Kansas unless we should fall into some local talent like Blake or Wayman or Alvin Adams (or Tre if he would have stayed for longer that 1 year). I would rather stay with the definitely above average performance and superior integrity of Lon then take a very risky shot at a new coach prematurely by pushing out Lon. But my knowledge of basketball is very limited so I will be happy to go with whatever Joe C. deems appropriate.

I disagree with a lot of this, but I want to focus on this. Why does it have to be "high risk" for OU to look for a new coach? There are TONS of options. We aren't elite, but save a few very specific situations, we can get most any coach that is with a program that let's say is outside the top 40 or so. Any small school coach. Pretty much any non-P5 coach.

Let's not forget, 3 of the last 4 coaches OU has hired have been pretty good. Even though I want Lon replaced, I wouldn't call him a failure. Our program and resources are better than a lot of folks give us credit for.

 

[thebigabd]

What's going all in? Hiring a new coach every five years if the current one hasn't at least made it to the Final Four over that span?

Consistently "good" is more important at OU than making a run every now and then. OU hasn't been consistently good, there is nothing more to that. Sneaking into the NCAA Tournament (and we were on the bubble again this year) isn't consistently good at OU. Not being anywhere close in the Big 12 championship race isn't acceptable at OU either.

The other thing is the product on the floor.... It's easy to spot a good team, and it's easy to spot a bad team. OU has been right on the line way too often. Coming down to where barely making the NCAA Tournament comes down to a single game. That has happened for Lon, but that result isn't making most people happy... You guys turn around and say "hey look, we made the dance again, why aren't you thrilled?".... But when the team made it on a last-second shot in one game, or in the other seasons any ONE OR TWO games keep you out, it's too close. It's not good basketball.

Lon has had an NIT-quality team that snuck into the NCAA Tournament in 2017, in 2018, maybe in 2019 (season ended early), and of course the 2016 team won 11 games.

OU looks all but certain to be in that same situation again this year... and then Reaves, Manek, Kur, and Alondes are gone and OU is replacing lots of question marks all over again for the next year.

OU is taking on water.... You either just don't see that, or don't want to see that. You keep focusing on the "hey, we made the NCAA Tournament" argument without acknowledging that in 2017, 2018, and 2019 it's likely that one additional loss keeps OU out. Been in that "last 4 in" scenario 3 years in a row, with the year before that being the 11 win season. There is context to this.

That we've played one of the toughest schedules year in and year out, consistently put up a good-to-very-good non-conference record

Nobody cares about that.

He gets credit for none of that.

Yes he does.

 

[soonerchuck]

I disagree with a lot of this, but I want to focus on this. Why does it have to be "high risk" for OU to look for a new coach? There are TONS of options. We aren't elite, but save a few very specific situations, we can get most any coach that is with a program that let's say is outside the top 40 or so. Any small school coach. Pretty much any non-P5 coach.

Let's not forget, 3 of the last 4 coaches OU has hired have been pretty good. Even though I want Lon replaced, I wouldn't call him a failure. Our program and resources are better than a lot of folks give us credit for.

One of the reasons that we have had success with our recent basketball coach hires is that Joe C. is pretty good at picking a replacement when needed and knowing when an existing coach needs to go. That is why I am more than happy to defer to Joe C. about when we need a new coach.

 

[thebigabd]

One of the reasons that we have had success with our recent basketball coach hires is that Joe C. is pretty good at picking a replacement when needed and knowing when an existing coach needs to go. That is why I am more than happy to defer to Joe C. about when we need a new coach.

I would say Joe C needs to defer to me.

 

[BCSooners]

Consistently "good" is more important at OU than making a run every now and then. OU hasn't been consistently good, there is nothing more to that. Sneaking into the NCAA Tournament (and we were on the bubble again this year) isn't consistently good at OU. Not being anywhere close in the Big 12 championship race isn't acceptable at OU either.

The other thing is the product on the floor.... It's easy to spot a good team, and it's easy to spot a bad team. OU has been right on the line way too often. Coming down to where barely making the NCAA Tournament comes down to a single game. That has happened for Lon, but that result isn't making most people happy... You guys turn around and say "hey look, we made the dance again, why aren't you thrilled?".... But when the team made it on a last-second shot in one game, or in the other seasons any ONE OR TWO games keep you out, it's too close. It's not good basketball.

Lon has had an NIT-quality team that snuck into the NCAA Tournament in 2017, in 2018, maybe in 2019 (season ended early), and of course the 2016 team won 11 games.

OU looks all but certain to be in that same situation again this year... and then Reaves, Manek, Kur, and Alondes are gone and OU is replacing lots of question marks all over again for the next year.

OU is taking on water.... You either just don't see that, or don't want to see that. You keep focusing on the "hey, we made the NCAA Tournament" argument without acknowledging that in 2017, 2018, and 2019 it's likely that one additional loss keeps OU out. Been in that "last 4 in" scenario 3 years in a row, with the year before that being the 11 win season. There is context to this.



Nobody cares about that.



Yes he does.

Well that’s dumb. I care about that, NCAA selection cares about that.

OU wasn’t last 4 in any year.

If you make the tournament as an at large you are a top 45 team. 7/8 years OU is a top 45 team & better than over half of P5 teams 7/8 years. Name the other non Blue Blood teams that has done that?

If LK starts missing the tournament or gets the program on probation then there’s no criteria based on past OU success that should warrant his departure.

 

[BCSooners]

I will say that until the NCAA starts really punishing ALL programs that are caught cheating guys like LK will almost always lack on the court talent.

 

[WTSooner]

OU wasn’t last 4 in any year.

Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.

 

[WTSooner]

I will say that until the NCAA starts really punishing ALL programs that are caught cheating guys like LK will almost always lack on the court talent.

Not everybody that is out-recruiting us is cheating or a blue blood program. Not even close.

 

[BCSooners]

Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.

This is where you lost me

 

[BCSooners]

Not everybody that is out-recruiting us is cheating or a blue blood program. Not even close.

Definitely not, but most including blue bloods are.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Why do people keep saying this? It may be true, but it's irrelevant. At least twice in the last four years we're 1 or 2 games from not making the Dance. That's bubble, even if not by the widely used definition of the term.

So the board shouldn’t use the widely accepted definition but should instead go with the WT definition since it fits your narrative? Got it.

 

[WTSooner]

This is where you lost me

It's two entirely different things. The NCAA can narrow the teams down to a couple of spots based on the actual results. What I, and others, are saying, is that if you look at the thing as a whole, we're literally in by a game or two. We've gotten in a couple of times when in a lot of others years, we wouldn't even have been on the bubble. That is definitely accurate of the 2018-2019 season. There are two sides to making the Dance in terms of the bubble and the last 8 or so teams in.....what your team does, and what a few other teams do. That isn't something I'm going to sit around being proud of. If you all want to, and you want to act like making the tournament in ANY fashion is cause for joy, you have that right. And I have the right to expect more. I don't want our season coming down to 1 or 2 games. It shouldn't. Our program is better than that. Our program is better than .500 in Big 12 play, and having 5 of 9 Lon coached seasons of being .500 or worse in conference.

 

[BCSooners]

It's two entirely different things. The NCAA can narrow the teams down to a couple of spots based on the actual results. What I, and others, are saying, is that if you look at the thing as a whole, we're literally in by a game or two. We've gotten in a couple of times when in a lot of others years, we wouldn't even have been on the bubble. That is definitely accurate of the 2018-2019 season. There are two sides to making the Dance in terms of the bubble and the last 8 or so teams in.....what your team does, and what a few other teams do. That isn't something I'm going to sit around being proud of. If you all want to, and you want to act like making the tournament in ANY fashion is cause for joy, you have that right. And I have the right to expect more. I don't want our season coming down to 1 or 2 games. It shouldn't. Our program is better than that. Our program is better than .500 in Big 12 play, and having 5 of 9 Lon coached seasons of being .500 or worse in conference.

OU won those 1-2 games, so I’m saying your argument is pointless. OU made the tournament. I promise you if OU misses the tournament I’m not going to say “they almost made it”. It would not make the standard, which OU has 7/8 years.

You say OU got in when they normally wouldn’t? They have never been a last 4 team in so they would’ve made it in anyway. Seems like you are just looking for more reasons to downgrade the positives this staff has done.

 

[WTSooner]

Definitely not, but most including blue bloods are.

I don't believe that. Are there are a lot of teams bending some small stupid rules that don't impact the results of recruiting? Probably. But just outright buying players? I don't see it. Plenty of schools that don't have recruiting advantages over us and have had no mentions of being dirty, that are out-recruiting us.

I'll say it again, TWO 4* HS players on our roster next year (using 247). Two. Nearly half the conference recruited at least two in this year's class. Houston is going to have three 4* players they recruited out of HS on their roster next year, plus a 5* transfer. Arky is bringing in four 4* HS kids, plus another 4* transfer I believe. Auburn is bringing in a 4 and a 5 star kid. TT. Baylor. Alabama. Xavier. All bringing in multiple 4* kids THIS class. And we have Phipps. We'll see how 2021 goes, but while Cortez is currently a 4*, we're not really in front for any other 4* kids, in what needs to be a big/good class for our program.

I got a little off track here, but I was attempting to show some schools that I don't believe are cheating, that are handing us our butts in recruiting. Didn't even mention aTm who had a 4* in the 2020 class and appears to have stolen two of our top targets in the 2021 class, both 4* kids.

 

[WTSooner]

OU won those 1-2 games, so I’m saying your argument is pointless. OU made the tournament. I promise you if OU misses the tournament I’m not going to say “they almost made it”. It would not make the standard, which OU has 7/8 years.

You say OU got in when they normally wouldn’t? They have never been a last 4 team in so they would’ve made it in anyway. Seems like you are just looking for more reasons to downgrade the positives this staff has done.

lmao

How many teams have finished 4 games under .500 in their conference and made the tournament? I think the answer is 2 or 3, and we were one of them.

It's okay that we have different standards. Some of us just want more.