Texas is gonna be good....

[Seymore Cox]

OU can't recruit like Texas can (or at least I havent seen OU sustain that level of recruiting), therefore, the recruiting strategies should be different.

Really? OU can't recruit regionally and go after a few elite prospects? Do explain.

 

[thebigabd]

Really? OU can't recruit regionally and go after a few elite prospects? Do explain.

They have an entire starting 5 of elite prospects... OU has never had that. OU hasnt recruited players like Kevin Durant, DJ Augustine, Jordan Hamilton, etc either.

OU currently has 0 (maybe 1 if you count Cam) elite prospects, they have several. They have several more next year too, and OU has Goff who you described as a more in shape Orlando Allen.

I still think the best recipe for OU is the best high school talent they can get, and going after the best juco guys EARLY and not settling for the last second guys like Capel has done for 5 years now. This is what OU has done since the Big 12 was formed up until Capel took over.

 

[SilliSooner]

They have an entire starting 5 of elite prospects... OU has never had that. OU hasnt recruited players like Kevin Durant, DJ Augustine, Jordan Hamilton, etc either.

OU currently has 0 (maybe 1 if you count Cam) elite prospects, they have several. They have several more next year too, and OU has Goff who you described as a more in shape Orlando Allen.

I still think the best recipe for OU is the best high school talent they can get, and going after the best juco guys EARLY and not settling for the last second guys like Capel has done for 5 years now. This is what OU has done since the Big 12 was formed up until Capel took over.

Go. Ugly. Early.

Bar pick-up philosophy. You're in the bar, not too drunk. You see a few 9s & 10s the in the room. Everyone else does, too. The hot shots and the big spenders are making their pitches. The pretty girls are being courted by the majors, while the mid-majors are pitching the 7s and the 6s.

Somewhere among the 7s and 8s is a good fit. Maybe not the prettiest but willing to show she can do the work and reward you for your early attention.

ABD knows the score. We're not Duke, yet. Sometimes an absolute 10 (Blake) loves us just for being us... or because we came highly recommended.

We'll have to prove ourselves with the 7s and 8s and sometimes an occasional 9. If we can do this then the 10s might give us more thought. Until then, go ugly early. You might be rewarded.

 

[Sam]

They have an entire starting 5 of elite prospects... OU has never had that. OU hasnt recruited players like Kevin Durant, DJ Augustine, Jordan Hamilton, etc either.

OU currently has 0 (maybe 1 if you count Cam) elite prospects, they have several. They have several more next year too, and OU has Goff who you described as a more in shape Orlando Allen.

I still think the best recipe for OU is the best high school talent they can get, and going after the best juco guys EARLY and not settling for the last second guys like Capel has done for 5 years now. This is what OU has done since the Big 12 was formed up until Capel took over.

Goff has way better hands and coordination than Orlando Allen. I don't think its even that comparable, he actually looks like and plays like a basketball player the times I've seen him in person unlike poor Orlando (great guy, just couldn't cut it on the court).

 

[Sawyer]

I never knew UT was known for playing a frenetic style of basketball. When they've played Mizzou I thought they always seemed to want to slow things down (or struggling when the game sped up).

 

[Seymore Cox]

Go ugly early

Glad no one told Billy Tubbs to go ugly early when recruiting Wayman or Jeff when recruiting Blake. Did OSU go ugly early with Lebryan Nash and James Anderson? What about Mizzou are they going ugly early? Baylor doesn't seem to be going ugly early but OU has to be relegated to going ugly early. Sounds real suspect to me.

Seems to me like OU can't get it right on anything with you. You want them to get Jucos, then the jucos are too soft and can't rebound. The coaches need to be on the hot seat two years after going to an elite eight, but a coach who hasn't finished above 10th in the league in Doc Sadler is the next great one. I just don't get the philosophy.

 

[Sawyer]

Until this incoming class, yes, Mizzou had been going ugly early. Anderson went after a few four star guys (Scott Suggs, a now-pedestrian junior at Washington, and Travis Releford (and both of them were down the priority list from Dante Anderson, a top 40 and rising wing from Florida who had Mizzou in his final few before dying tragically in a car accident (Anderson's coach had talked about Anderson, teammate Shaq Johnson and himself all ending up at Mizzou, the coach as a grad assistant).

Aside from one highly rated wing guy and two others who were recruited as much because of their local ties as because of their actual talent, Anderson's first four classes were more or less "ugly." There was actually an article in today's Columbia paper about this very topic.

Had Capel taken that approach instead of waiting on guys like Terrence Jones or Ross maybe they could have landed a few more solid recruits instead of stockpiling leftovers to fill the roster, or maybe he wouldn't have been in the situation where he needed to do that in the first place.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Until this incoming class, yes, Mizzou had been going ugly early. Anderson went after a few four star guys (Scott Suggs, a now-pedestrian junior at Washington, and Travis Releford (and both of them were down the priority list from Dante Anderson, a top 40 and rising wing from Florida who had Mizzou in his final few before dying tragically in a car accident (Anderson's coach had talked about Anderson, teammate Shaq Johnson and himself all ending up at Mizzou, the coach as a grad assistant).

Aside from one highly rated wing guy and two others who were recruited as much because of their local ties as because of their actual talent, Anderson's first four classes were more or less "ugly." There was actually an article in today's Columbia paper about this very topic.

Had Capel taken that approach instead of waiting on guys like Terrence Jones or Ross maybe they could have landed a few more solid recruits instead of stockpiling leftovers to fill the roster, or maybe he wouldn't have been in the situation where he needed to do that in the first place.

Capel didn't wait on Ross, he came along late. Capel missed on Jones in the spring. Capel's mistake was waiting on certain guys. But the other guys that he could have got wouldn't be considered ugly. Ala Ricky Scott, and some of the recruits out of Texas that they slow played that went to A&M and OSU. What really hurt OU was a miserable season. If they have a halfway decent season they get some good guys. The other thing that hurt OU is the guys that you feel were going to be around atleast two or three years, and were UT type recruits, self destructed. My beef with Capel is ineffectively using the momentum from signing Blake and going to the elite eight. Coming off of an elite eight, they should have had their best class in years.

And I understand that you and ABD aren't really OU fans, but even you would have to admit that if Missouri has a strong season, you don't want them to settle on just OK guys. You would want them to get the Tony Mitchells and Phill Pressey's that they signed. ADB wants OU to recruit on an equivalent level with Colorado and Texas Tech after an elite eight appearance. Doesnt make sense.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm not surprised that some of the specifics were a bit off. Regardless, the point more or less stays the same. "Go ugly" isn't really how I'd put it. More like the old "a bird in the hand" saying. There have been guys OU could have had that they passed on and they were left empty handed and scrambling to fill spots.

 

[thebigabd]

Seems to me like OU can't get it right on anything with you. You want them to get Jucos, then the jucos are too soft and can't rebound.

There is a difference between getting real impact jucos and settling for warm bodies because you struck out on everyone else. Surely you can see that.

The coaches need to be on the hot seat two years after going to an elite eight, but a coach who hasn't finished above 10th in the league in Doc Sadler is the next great one. I just don't get the philosophy.

Hahahaha, ya, I said Sadler is the next great one. He is a good coach in the hardest job in the Big 12. Most people on this board like Doc Sadler.....

ADB wants OU to recruit on an equivalent level with Colorado and Texas Tech after an elite eight appearance. Doesnt make sense.

Colorado and Tech have a combined 4 all-conference players.. how many does OU have?

I want OU to sign guys like Cameron Clark, Calvin Newell, Steve Pledger, etc. Those are the good high school players that OU can sign. But instead of Kyle Hardrick, I would rather have a Marcus Relphorde. Instead of Carl Blair, I would rather have a Marquise Carter type. Instead of CJ Washington, I would rather have a Darrell Williams (OSU).

Its not that difficult... if OU tried to sign those real impact juco guys early like they used to, they could. Capel doesnt want to, and he constantly strikes out and has to take warm bodies late. This leads to increased attrition, transfers, and OU not being as good as they should be.

 

[SilliSooner]

OU should be a program that gets its share of McDs and "Players of the Year" from certain states. We had the national POY and got a trio of supposed 10s (Willie, Tommie and Tiny) from the carry over. Pretty girls can be fickle and expect special treatment and courting even after you've agreed to go steady.

We'll still get our share. Cameron Clark has to be a 9 1/2. Tony and
Keith Clark were 9s. Pledger and Newell were 8 1/2s.

What ABD was recommending was going after 1st Team AA Jucos as your 3rd or 4th recruit instead of joining the huge throng that chases a Harrison Barnes or Terrence Jones or a Ross.

Kelvin rarely chased the 10s, probably because he felt they wouldn't adapt to his coaching style. Occasionally he'd get a 9 1/2 like Hollis but then picked the best he could from the 8s and 9s. ABD is recommending a combo type recruiting philosophy.

 

[ben]

I live to read these ABD Vs. the world threads.

Mostly because I agree with ABD on pretty much everything he writes...and everyone else is pretty delusional. You've got an ally, ABD!

 

[thebigabd]

OU should be a program that gets its share of McDs and "Players of the Year" from certain states. We had the national POY and got a trio of supposed 10s (Willie, Tommie and Tiny) from the carry over. Pretty girls can be fickle and expect special treatment and courting even after you've agreed to go steady.

We'll still get our share. Cameron Clark has to be a 9 1/2. Tony and
Keith Clark were 9s. Pledger and Newell were 8 1/2s.

What ABD was recommending was going after 1st Team AA Jucos as your 3rd or 4th recruit instead of joining the huge throng that chases a Harrison Barnes or Terrence Jones or a Ross.

Kelvin rarely chased the 10s, probably because he felt they wouldn't adapt to his coaching style. Occasionally he'd get a 9 1/2 like Hollis but then picked the best he could from the 8s and 9s. ABD is recommending a combo type recruiting philosophy.

And its probably worth mentioning that lots of people backed off Tiny and Willie during their recruitment. I think Tiny decided on OU over Mississippi State and Willie flat out said that he was going to follow his family member, Oronde Talliafero wherever he went.

Its not like OU went toe to toe with Kentucky, Memphis, Duke, UNC, etc for a couple of those guys and came out on top. They had baggage. They had issues.

 

[Sawyer]

Doc Sadler actually finished 7th in the Big 12 a few years ago (7-9) and 8th the following year (8-8).

Any coach who can put together back to back near .500 seasons at Nebraska is at least an above average gameday coach. He's a poor recruiter, but he gets as much out of his players as just about anyone IMO.

 

[Sam]

And its probably worth mentioning that lots of people backed off Tiny and Willie during their recruitment. I think Tiny decided on OU over Mississippi State and Willie flat out said that he was going to follow his family member, Oronde Talliafero wherever he went.

Its not like OU went toe to toe with Kentucky, Memphis, Duke, UNC, etc for a couple of those guys and came out on top. They had baggage. They had issues.

Oronde is Daniel orton's uncle, pretty sure he isn't related to Willie. He just recruited him forever though.

 

[Seymore Cox]

OK to clear up some inacurate comments, OU beat UK and KU on Warren. Warren also had a spring conditional offer from UNC who anticipated Lawson leaving early. Also, beating Mississippi State for a recruit is not something to sneeze at. MSU consistently brings in top recruiting classes on paper.

However, I'm a person who likes to deal in specifics and not generalities. So the recruiting philosophy by OU should be go ugly early or low hanging fruit philosophy. Right now, in 2012, OU is recruiting McD's candidates according to rivlas, Perry Ellis, Wannah Bail, Cameron Ridley, Marcus Smart, Shaquille Goodwin, Tony Parker, Marcus Smart, Rasheed Sulaimon, Winston Sheppard,Shaquille Cleare, J-Mychal Reese, and LJ Rose. So OU should just abort recruiting those guys and get a commit from some juco cats or any 3 to 4 star guy willing to commit?

Also Sawyer if you're impressed with Doc Sadler's job at Nebraska, you must think Scott Drew is going to be the next Coach K.

 

[stoops4pres]

OK to clear up some inacurate comments, OU beat UK and KU on Warren. Warren also had a spring conditional offer from UNC who anticipated Lawson leaving early. Also, beating Mississippi State for a recruit is not something to sneeze at. MSU consistently brings in top recruiting classes on paper.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

 

[Sawyer]

Nothing I said about Sadler is unreasonable or out of line with most objective observations. He can't recruit, but his teams are always very, very good in a few areas (and so lacking in talent that they still more or less suck).

No one's saying you take whatever 3/4 star guys are willing to commit early. The point is that it's not just a numbers game. You don't build successful programs by blindly recruiting the most paper talent you can. Coaches need to identify players that will fit in with what they need and what they want to do with their program, then determine which of those players are most likely to sign and go after them the hardest.

Throwing offers at a dozen five star recruits hoping to land a couple is exactly what got OU in the position it's in now. It's not a model for sustained success. You might get a handful of talented players that way, but the pieces won't likely fit together like they should (you should be familiar with that). If you don't really know what kind of team you want, maybe that is the best recruiting philosophy... just get the talent there then figure it out later. But I can't think of any successful coaches who built a program without a plan.