The Porter Moser stat I keep thinking about....

[Seymore Cox]

Can’t say I disagree, but he has two more years after this season to improve. He’s a legit 6’ 9” and he has a huge upside with his ability to shoot from behind the arc. He just needs to be more consistent, get stronger physically and get better on defense.

Besides, the brothers came to OU as a package deal. And while you may be right about Jacob, you’re dead wrong about Tanner!

Groves is shooting 25 percent from 3 in conference. He has made 13 all year. He shot 14 percent as a freshman.

 

[stormspencer]

Jacob Groves isn't ready now to be a Big 12 player, but I think he will be next year with some offseason strength and conditioning. Call me crazy, but there's an NBA player inside of him, just a matter on if he reaches his potential. 6-9, quick shot, high release point, a very good passer, defense will always be a struggle, but there's no reason he can't replicate what Brady Manek did here and then some.

I will just call you certifiable . I want Jacob to succeed and improve as much as anyone, but you're out of your ever-loving mind if you see any type of NBA potential in his future. I don't want to pile on the kid, but he would be hard-pressed to make a lower level league overseas. He's a mid-major type of player and would get close to zero minutes if we had a noticeably better roster. Cade Davis would be his ceiling....and that's pretty much a reach.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Groves is shooting 25 percent from 3 in conference. He has made 13 all year. He shot 14 percent as a freshman.

and shot 36% as a soph on double the number he shot as a frosh

 

[thebigabd]

I will just call you certifiable . I want Jacob to succeed and improve as much as anyone, but you're out of your ever-loving mind if you see any type of NBA potential in his future. I don't want to pile on the kid, but he would be hard-pressed to make a lower level league overseas. He's a mid-major type of player and would get close to zero minutes if we had a noticeably better roster. Cade Davis would be his ceiling....and that's pretty much a reach.

Some on this forum get crazy with the NBA talk of players who have no chance to play in the NBA...... but Jacob Groves takes the cake.

He has absolutely 0% chance.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Some on this forum get crazy with the NBA talk of players who have no chance to play in the NBA...... but Jacob Groves takes the cake.

He has absolutely 0% chance.

yes because guys never improve

 

[AdaSooner]

Groves is shooting 25 percent from 3 in conference. He has made 13 all year. He shot 14 percent as a freshman.

So, he shot 36% last season, which is not too bad.

Jacob is what most of us call a “streak shooter.” He knocked down six threes to start the season in an exhibition game. But, some would say, Rogers State is weak competition, and I would agree.

But, wait! He scored 23 points against Kansas in the NCAA tournament last year on 8 of 11 shooting (4 of 5 from three).

None of that has much to do with what I said before. He has two more years to play after the current season. A 6’ 9” brother of one of our best players, who is also a great young man and an excellent student is worthy of a scholarship.

And, by the way, I never uttered a word about the NBA! I said he has potential, and I’m sticking by that observation. If he can improve his defense and find a way to be more consistent on his shots from behind the arc, he can help us next year.

I’ll also stick my neck out just a little and predict that he will be better than the true waste of a scholarship in the last few years I could name. You could name them too.

 

[allday92]

Some on this forum get crazy with the NBA talk of players who have no chance to play in the NBA...... but Jacob Groves takes the cake.

He has absolutely 0% chance.

Believe you said the same about Austin Reaves. Can pull up the receipts if you want. Groves still needs to develop and improve, but if he does he has certain skills that all NBA teams covet.

 

[Seymore Cox]

So, he shot 36% last season, which is not too bad.

Jacob is what most of us call a “streak shooter.” He knocked down six threes to start the season in an exhibition game. But, some would say, Rogers State is weak competition, and I would agree.

But, wait! He scored 23 points against Kansas in the NCAA tournament last year on 8 of 11 shooting (4 of 5 from three).

None of that has much to do with what I said before. He has two more years to play after the current season. A 6’ 9” brother of one of our best players, who is also a great young man and an excellent student is worthy of a scholarship.

And, by the way, I never uttered a word about the NBA! I said he has potential, and I’m sticking by that observation. If he can improve his defense and find a way to be more consistent on his shots from behind the arc, he can help us next year.

I’ll also stick my neck out just a little and predict that he will be better than the true waste of a scholarship in the last few years I could name. You could name them too.

I got you…. But I can only go off actual numbers and not reputation. By numbers Elijah Harkless shoots the ball better. No one is calling him a 3 point anything.

 

[AdaSooner]

I got you…. But I can only go off actual numbers and not reputation. By numbers Elijah Harkless shoots the ball better. No one is calling him a 3 point anything.

What word or phrase did I use to confuse you? I said he had the ability to make shots from three and that he needed to be more consistent. I never said he is a great 3 point shooter. I said he is a “streak shooter,” meaning he can be good but he can also be bad. Nothing more.

 

[Stikboy]

The problem with JGroves is he gives you really nothing if he's not hitting 3s and is a net negative because if his cement-shoed defense. Who cares if he's 6-9? That length should help but again if he's constantly getting left, what does it matter? If he was getting 6 rebounds a game and scoring some inside and not getting killed defensively then maybe we could start a conversation. I just feel like we're trying to squeeze blood out a turnip with this guy. OU needs much better athletes than his type.

Of course, watch him score 16 tonight and everyone will be on his "train". That would be great, but...

 

[WichitaSooner]

Believe you said the same about Austin Reaves. Can pull up the receipts if you want. Groves still needs to develop and improve, but if he does he has certain skills that all NBA teams covet.

He would have to either become exponentially more athletic or become a million times better shooter. There are dozens of guys his height in the NBA who are far better shooters. I honestly think people constantly underestimate how good NBA players are when it comes to shooting the ball. When a college kid makes 33 percent from 3, people act like they are a good shooter. That’s not good shooting. And Jacob brings very little else to the table. He is a nice passer for a college big, but his passing isn’t getting him to the NBA.

 

[thebigabd]

yes because guys never improve

Ok but if we are going to talk about Jacob Groves potentially playing in the NBA, you might as well say every single player in the NCAA has a chance because the guy has done next to nothing this year.

He has 2 blocks.... 3 steals... 7 assists.... 9 free throws........... ON THE SEASON. In 28 games, lol.

 

[thebigabd]

Here are his seasons:

2000-01 Little Rock 18-11- 18 wins is aways good no matter what conference.
2001-02- Litle Rock 18-11- Solid again
2002-03- Little Rock 18-12- Solid
2003-04- Illinois State 10-19- Jumping up in competition level, rough first season.
2004-05- Illinois State 17-13- Much better
2005-06- Illinois State 9-19- okay bad again. Like really bad.
2006-07- Illinois State 15-16- Bad
2011-12- Loyola 7-23- Yikes.
2012-13- Loyola 15-16- Improved, but hasn't had a winning record in three seasons.
2013-14- Loyola 10-22- Okay not looking too great.
2014-15- Loyola 24-13- Huuuge turn around.
2015-16- Loyola 15-17-Another losing season.
2016-17- Loyola 18-14- Better.
2017-18- Loyola 32-6-Very good
2018-19- Loyola 20-14- Good
2019-20- Loyola 21-11- Good again
2020-2021- Loyola 26-5- Good again

Wow, I really don't know what to make of his coaching record. It's not like he struggled in the beginning then consistently got better. He's kind of been all over the place. The complete opposite of Lon. Lon was a safe hire with proven results. Seems like Moser is a wildcard. Absolutely awesome seasons, and absolutely putrid ones.

I'll try not to analyze it too much. We will figure out very quickly what kind of coach he is. He NEEDS to bring better talent to Norman. I know it's not easy. I have no clue how to do it. But that shouldn't be an excuse from a college coach of seventeen years making millions of dollars. Lon was far from a perfect coach but he got Oklahoma to a respectable level. Fans expect a tournament appearance every year. Moser needs to get it done. Yes, he obviously deserves more time and the full support the school. That will never change. But things need to be better next year, and I hope he is feeling alittle heat right now. His job isn't and shouldn't be on the line, but he's in the big leagues now.

I'm just trying to be as realistic as possible.

Let's compare to the guys I wanted to hire.

Eric Konkol (LA Tech)
23-10
23-10
17-16
20-13
22-8
24-8
19-7 this year (well on his way to another 22+ win campaign)

0 losing seasons. Not 45% losing seasons.

Grant McCasland (North Texas)
30-3
25-9
20-12
20-18
21-12
20-11
18-10
20-4 this year... well on his way to another successful season.

Same thing... 0 losing seasons. Not 45% losing seasons.

It's kind of a crazy stat.

As you stated... Moser is ALL over the place. It's a really weird resume.

 

[Crimson&Cream14]

Ok but if we are going to talk about Jacob Groves potentially playing in the NBA, you might as well say every single player in the NCAA has a chance because the guy has done next to nothing this year.

He has 2 blocks.... 3 steals... 7 assists.... 9 free throws........... ON THE SEASON. In 28 games, lol.

Thank you. He can definitely improve next year, but there's a MASSIVE difference between improving and whatever the hell he would need to do to play in the NBA.
He's barely a serviceable role player on a bad college team. As a junior. I hope he gets better, because if he's getting major minutes next year playing like this then it's going to be another very long season.

 

[Boom Soon]

Let's compare to the guys I wanted to hire.

Eric Konkol (LA Tech)
23-10
23-10
17-16
20-13
22-8
24-8
19-7 this year (well on his way to another 22+ win campaign)

0 losing seasons. Not 45% losing seasons.

Grant McCasland (North Texas)
30-3
25-9
20-12
20-18
21-12
20-11
18-10
20-4 this year... well on his way to another successful season.

Same thing... 0 losing seasons. Not 45% losing seasons.

It's kind of a crazy stat.

As you stated... Moser is ALL over the place. It's a really weird resume.

Interesting comparisons! Thanks for sharing. BUT, we kind of run into the same problem if we hire one of those guys. Can a dude, who has success at a lower level, make that jump to compete in the toughest league in college basketball? Based on records alone, one would think one of your suggestions could do better than Moser. But right now, it's hard to think of anyone doing worse. Just hoping this is an adjustment year for Moser and he will be better next year!

But to switch gears a tad. Obviously, the buck stops with Moser. But what about the assistant coaches? It seemed like people were very pleased with Moser's hires, but I believe they also have a hand in the poor product on the floor. Can we honestly say there's been any player development? I don't think Cortes or Noland have really improved throughout the season, and that's concerning too. I know talent plays a factor but there just seems to be a lack of improvement from the freshman to even give hope to the future. And I know that falls alot on the assistant coaches.

 

[BCSooners]

Interesting comparisons! Thanks for sharing. BUT, we kind of run into the same problem if we hire one of those guys. Can a dude, who has success at a lower level, make that jump to compete in the toughest league in college basketball? Based on records alone, one would think one of your suggestions could do better than Moser. But right now, it's hard to think of anyone doing worse. Just hoping this is an adjustment year for Moser and he will be better next year!

But to switch gears a tad. Obviously, the buck stops with Moser. But what about the assistant coaches? It seemed like people were very pleased with Moser's hires, but I believe they also have a hand in the poor product on the floor. Can we honestly say there's been any player development? I don't think Cortes or Noland have really improved throughout the season, and that's concerning too. I know talent plays a factor but there just seems to be a lack of improvement from the freshman to even give hope to the future. And I know that falls alot on the assistant coaches.

I think it's pretty well known that Moser handles much of the player development himself, & honestly think Custer is #2 in that department. I think Moser even said so himself he's looking for recruiters as assistants, and looking at the class coming in they are doing their jobs.

As for current players, I think Cortes has improved a ton since the beginning of the year (he couldn't guard a soul). Noland is hard to tell because everyone is begging he gets more minutes.

 

[AdaSooner]

But to switch gears a tad. Obviously, the buck stops with Moser. But what about the assistant coaches? It seemed like people were very pleased with Moser's hires, but I believe they also have a hand in the poor product on the floor. Can we honestly say there's been any player development? I don't think Cortes or Noland have really improved throughout the season, and that's concerning too. I know talent plays a factor but there just seems to be a lack of improvement from the freshman to even give hope to the future. And I know that falls alot on the assistant coaches.

I agree with you, especially the part about the assistant coaches. I was openly critical of Lon’s staff after Henson and Hill left. Our recruiting suffered, and so did player development. I blamed the assistants. Head coaches may be ultimately responsible, but they can’t be everything to everyone 24-7. Head coaches are only as good as the people around them.

Having said all of that, there is one thing I have noticed with Porter Moser that concerns me. I could count on one hand the number of times I have seen him consult with an assistant on the sideline even in passing, and I have never seen him huddle with his staff before or during a time out.

I don’t rule out the likelihood that he meets with them regularly throughout the week. I’m just hoping he is not so controlling as a head coach that he is unapproachable to the assistants he hired. In reading the bios of each coach as it was posted on the OU website, I remember being impressed as well as excited! I still believe there are better days ahead. But I can’t deny that my patience is wearing thin right now.

 

[steverocks35]

I think it's pretty well known that Moser handles much of the player development himself, & honestly think Custer is #2 in that department. I think Moser even said so himself he's looking for recruiters as assistants, and looking at the class coming in they are doing their jobs.

As for current players, I think Cortes has improved a ton since the beginning of the year (he couldn't guard a soul). Noland is hard to tell because everyone is begging he gets more minutes.

What have you seen that makes you think Cortes has improved? Wouldn’t he be all but starting if he had improved? Seems like he’s getting fewer minutes, not more. He can’t stop turning it over.

 

[Swans]

What have you seen that makes you think Cortes has improved? Wouldn’t he be all but starting if he had improved? Seems like he’s getting fewer minutes, not more. He can’t stop turning it over.

If you look at minutes played/game averages, Cortes is a much better shooter from anywhere on the court compared to Goldwire. He’s also a better rebounder. He has much better vision and I would say from what I’ve seen, many of his turnovers are a result of players not being ready when he passes the ball. This obviously would improve the more he played with those guys.

His upside is tremendous IMO but he has to play to get better.

CJ Noland’s numbers are better also. I really hope we can keep both these guys next year.

 

[BCSooners]

What have you seen that makes you think Cortes has improved? Wouldn’t he be all but starting if he had improved? Seems like he’s getting fewer minutes, not more. He can’t stop turning it over.

Before his concussion he improved quite a bit imo, mostly on the defensive end. He was starting to take minutes away from Goldwire before the concussion. Best ball handler & passer on the team, 1st game back was against the best defensive team in the country. Freshmen with turnover problems is nothing new, I think he'll be a good player if he stays 4 years.