This staff

[WTSooner]

lol

 

[152219]

12? i have coached 4 teams to state championships 1988 1992 1996 with Carnegie.2003 Anadarko state runner up in 1997 1998 2012.. been to the state tourney 87 88 89 90 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 02 03 06 08 09 12 13
everyone has there own opinion so before bashing me and everyone thinks i dont know what i am talking about now knows i do who else has been that good at a school on this board???

Pow Wow Highway is overrated

 

[garyeb2]

Agreed. I've never understood that argument from him. A better bench the year before and we're in.

More Peter Pan Gold Mine.

 

[skyvue]

I apologize for getting their release data incorrect, but the point still stands about him not having an established relationship with those recruits.

And the revisionist history runs on both sides and the faster both sides realize that the better.

Let's see -- one member of the "Capel, Master Recruiter" camp had us with one McDAA before Capel came to Norman. Another listed Crocker and Keith Clark as Capel recruits.

If I've posted any misinformation that comes close to equaling those "facts," by all means, please point it out. I'd be happy to see it corrected.

And I've stated repeatedly that it's probably not fair to hold Capel responsible for the departure of James and Reynolds, so you're preaching to the choir. But if he's to receive any kind of credit for bringing in the likes of Gallon and TMG, then everything's on the table. His "established relationships" with those two recruits put our program on probation and in the dumper.

 

[garyeb2]

That would be like someone saying that this past season's OU team doesn't make the NCAA tourney without Capel's recruits....well, yes, that is true, but then again, Kruger without those guys wouldn't have had a full roster. Ugggghhhh...

Are you being obtuse? What I'm saying now and have been saying for over a year is that a team of Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Fitz, and Osby aren't going to make any tourney field even if they had some decent bench players to come in and spell them from time to time. They were a group of flawed, fragile, one diminsional contributors. A better bench wouldn't have changed that.

It took 3 new starters, a work ethic upgrade, and a cultural change to make the difference. Everything that mattered came from the Kruger recruits. Osby was the best player. But, it took Kruger over a year to get the Capel stink buffed off him. Mayby 2 years with Cam will get the same kind of a job done.

 

[WTSooner]

Are you being obtuse? What I'm saying now and have been saying for over a year is that a team of Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Fitz, and Osby aren't going to make any tourney field even if they had some decent bench players to come in and spell them from time to time.

You can say that until you are blue in the face. FACT is, our next to last win on the season, and our last "quality win", three of those five players started. The five of them played 138 of the 200 minutes available (69%), scored 72 of our 86 points (84%), and 13 of our 17 assists (76%).

But don't let the facts confuse the agenda you've been pushing. Maybe those 5 weren't great as a unit, but that doesn't change the fact that those 5 were probably 5 of our top 6-7 guys all season long, including the top 2. You can point to the year before all you want, but that team with ZERO bench wasn't too far from the postseason. Another year under LK, and another year of experience helped every bit as much as the individual players brought in. I can name 2-3 other Capel recruits that we could have replaced Cousins/Hornbeak/M'Baye with that also could have augmented those 5 on their way to a postseason birth.

 

[garyeb2]

You can say that until you are blue in the face. FACT is, our next to last win on the season, and our last "quality win", three of those five players started. The five of them played 138 of the 200 minutes available (69%), scored 72 of our 86 points (84%), and 13 of our 17 assists (76%).

But don't let the facts confuse the agenda you've been pushing. Maybe those 5 weren't great as a unit, but that doesn't change the fact that those 5 were probably 5 of our top 6-7 guys all season long, including the top 2. You can point to the year before all you want, but that team with ZERO bench wasn't too far from the postseason. Another year under LK, and another year of experience helped every bit as much as the individual players brought in. I can name 2-3 other Capel recruits that we could have replaced Cousins/Hornbeak/M'Baye with that also could have augmented those 5 on their way to a postseason birth.

I know. You went down the rabbit hole with that argument over a year ago and just can't find you way out. There is something that guys that want to defend their position with stats just don't get. And it is more important than the stats.

Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, and M'Baye with their attitude, enthusiasm, and work ethic started changing the culture of the program. It was their passing or pushing that dogging, lazy, bunch of mismatched low bar leftovers that got us to the tourney. With the exception of Osby of course.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Man...this thread exploded! Last night it was at 17 replies and 1 page, and now it's on page 3!

And I only posted once or twice! :ez-roll:

 

[Big Old Booger]

12? i have coached 4 teams to state championships 1988 1992 1996 with Carnegie.2003 Anadarko state runner up in 1997 1998 2012.. been to the state tourney 87 88 89 90 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 02 03 06 08 09 12 13
everyone has there own opinion so before bashing me and everyone thinks i dont know what i am talking about now knows i do who else has been that good at a school on this board???

So, were you the head coach, an asst coach, statustician on those teams?

 

[garyeb2]

I was wondering how long it would take one of you to insult the guy on a personal level because you didn't agree with his basketball opinions. It is classless and quite predicable. It reflects worse on the pitcher than it does the catcher.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I was wondering how long it would take one of you to insult the guy on a personal level because you didn't agree with his basketball opinions. It is classless and quite predicable. It reflects worse on the pitcher than it does the catcher.

I'm not insulting him. I'm not the one that said he was 12. I'm explaining why some thought he could be 12.

 

[WTSooner]

I know. You went down the rabbit hole with that argument over a year ago and just can't find you way out. There is something that guys that want to defend their position with stats just don't get. And it is more important than the stats.

Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, and M'Baye with their attitude, enthusiasm, and work ethic started changing the culture of the program. It was their passing or pushing that dogging, lazy, bunch of mismatched low bar leftovers that got us to the tourney. With the exception of Osby of course.

Since Osby was our leader, and the hardest worker, it isn't fair of you to assume he alone couldn't have gotten the guys to work harder.

Or that having ANYBODY on the bench couldn't have gotten them to work harder. I agree they coasted a bit 2 seasons ago. When the only guard you have on the bench is Carl Blair, you can do that. Add just about ANYBODY to the bench, even some of Capel's old recruits.....heck, even Calvin Newell, and it's a different story. They didn't need to work harder two seasons ago. They needed bodies on the bench.

 

[WTSooner]

I was wondering how long it would take one of you to insult the guy on a personal level because you didn't agree with his basketball opinions. It is classless and quite predicable. It reflects worse on the pitcher than it does the catcher.

Just b/c the shoe fits, doesn't make it so gary.

It's pretty commonly known in the "real world" that how you present yourself and your argument/information/whatever is nearly as important as the argument/information/whatever itself. Nobody wants a President, or a CEO, or whatever, no matter how bright he or she may be, that can't INTELLIGENTLY get their point across.

 

[NickZepp]

You mean Pledger, Fitzgerald, and Osby played no role in getting this team back to the NCAA tournament?

Both sides of this argument are ridiculous

Fitz and Pledger were two of the top players that last Capel year. Osby of course never played under Capel. Fitz and Pledger under Kruger were more or less role players or backups.

 

[garyeb2]

Since Osby was our leader, and the hardest worker, it isn't fair of you to assume he alone couldn't have gotten the guys to work harder.

Or that having ANYBODY on the bench couldn't have gotten them to work harder. I agree they coasted a bit 2 seasons ago. When the only guard you have on the bench is Carl Blair, you can do that. Add just about ANYBODY to the bench, even some of Capel's old recruits.....heck, even Calvin Newell, and it's a different story. They didn't need to work harder two seasons ago. They needed bodies on the bench.

Another reality that you are not grasping. If the bench players had been a little better, they would have been the starters. It would have been a moot point whether or not your fav five would have made the tourney.

The starters 2 seasons back were a little better than the bench players. But, not much. A case in point is Fitz. He was a little better than CJ. But, not much. They had strengths in different areas. But, their positive and negative impacts on the team were pretty close. Remember now. The bench players beat the starters in every scrimmage until well after the regular season started that year. With the exception of Osby, no coach could win consistently or at a high level with the kind of players Capel left behind. And those are not the stats, those are the facts. you are offering up conjecture.

 

[garyeb2]

Just b/c the shoe fits, doesn't make it so gary.

It's pretty commonly known in the "real world" that how you present yourself and your argument/information/whatever is nearly as important as the argument/information/whatever itself. Nobody wants a President, or a CEO, or whatever, no matter how bright he or she may be, that can't INTELLIGENTLY get their point across.

The guy is posting his opinion on a basketball message board. That's it. If he did coach HS basketball at a good level, then verbal skills and mental agility are the important characteristics.

And by the way, once again. This a basketball message board. This is not the real world. The opinions and positions taken by many posters do not closely resemble those of people in the real world.

 

[WTSooner]

I have no desire to re-debate this with you. You won't change my mind. I won't change your's. But I'll leave you with this:

A case in point is Fitz. He was a little better than CJ. But, not much. They had strengths in different areas. But, their positive and negative impacts on the team were pretty close.

That is an absolute garbage statement. Especially if we are looking at Fitz from last year. His offense is WAY better than what CJ brought to the table on defense, or rebounding. WAY better. If that weren't the case, I don't think Fitz would have played nearly 3 times the amount of minutes that CJ did. Heck, even Neal played more minutes last year than CJ. You seem to like LK as a coach, do you really believe such a difference in playing time would exist if the net gain/loss of two players was that equal? Especially considering we were in the hunt for a postseason bid until late in the season, thus you cannot use the "he was playing for next year" argument?

The bench players beat the starters in every scrimmage until well after the regular season started that year. With the exception of Osby, no coach could win consistently or at a high level with the kind of players Capel left behind. And those are not the stats, those are the facts. you are offering up conjecture.

Doesn't matter. I don't know why you put so much emphasis on such a stupid thing. You said the same thing about the freshmen beating up on the starters this year, yet at the end of the year, Cousins was terrible, Hornbeak was pretty much a warm body that wasn't taking shots, and we played some of our best ball without Hield in uniform. I like our young guys. They definitely played a role in getting us to the postseason. But you need to stop acting like our best players weren't some of the very guys you were knocking. We won with Pledger being our second best player this year, something you said couldn't happen.

All season you pushed two things as the key to this season over last season. Better defense, attributed entirely to the new guys, and a deeper bench. I agree with you on the bench. That has been my #1 reason that the team two years ago didn't make the postseason since that season ended. But your defense argument fell apart, so you just dropped it. This team won the amount of games they did, in large part, b/c of offense. I can quote you the stats from 2 years ago to this year if you need, but I'll assume you can find them yourself. Offense. And who does Ken Pom have our best offensive players on the season? In order.....Osby, Pledger, Grooms, Clark, and Fitz.

I know, I know.....stats don't tell the story correctly. They are misleading. Blah, blah. They aren't perfect, but they tell the correct story here.

 

[garyeb2]

I have no desire to re-debate this with you. You won't change my mind. I won't change your's. But I'll leave you with this:



That is an absolute garbage statement. Especially if we are looking at Fitz from last year. His offense is WAY better than what CJ brought to the table on defense, or rebounding. WAY better. If that weren't the case, I don't think Fitz would have played nearly 3 times the amount of minutes that CJ did. Heck, even Neal played more minutes last year than CJ. You seem to like LK as a coach, do you really believe such a difference in playing time would exist if the net gain/loss of two players was that equal? Especially considering we were in the hunt for a postseason bid until late in the season, thus you cannot use the "he was playing for next year" argument?



Doesn't matter. I don't know why you put so much emphasis on such a stupid thing. You said the same thing about the freshmen beating up on the starters this year, yet at the end of the year, Cousins was terrible, Hornbeak was pretty much a warm body that wasn't taking shots, and we played some of our best ball without Hield in uniform. I like our young guys. They definitely played a role in getting us to the postseason. But you need to stop acting like our best players weren't some of the very guys you were knocking. We won with Pledger being our second best player this year, something you said couldn't happen.

All season you pushed two things as the key to this season over last season. Better defense, attributed entirely to the new guys, and a deeper bench. I agree with you on the bench. That has been my #1 reason that the team two years ago didn't make the postseason since that season ended. But your defense argument fell apart, so you just dropped it. This team won the amount of games they did, in large part, b/c of offense. I can quote you the stats from 2 years ago to this year if you need, but I'll assume you can find them yourself. Offense. And who does Ken Pom have our best offensive players on the season? In order.....Osby, Pledger, Grooms, Clark, and Fitz.

I know, I know.....stats don't tell the story correctly. They are misleading. Blah, blah. They aren't perfect, but they tell the correct story here.

And I'll leave you with this. Ken Pom is in the business of selling useless stats to suckers for $19.95.

 

[nikebasketball]

So, were you the head coach, an asst coach, statustician or waterboy on those teams?

Most people think you are 12 based on the grammar/punctuation and sentence structure because they are all so poor it seems impossible you could be out of high school, much less a college graduate.

Head coach and i dont take the time to get my grammar right cause i dont have the time i got on this board cause i love OU basketball and basketball period i was head coach at carnegie from 86 through 98 winning 3 state titles 88 92 class 2A 96 3A state runner up 97 98 in 3A in 99 i was asst coach at SWOSU took the Anadarko job in 2000 still hold it tell today. won the 4A state title in 03 runner up in 12 i have got bashed so bad the past week and it dont bother me 1 bit i am through talking about capel i was just throwing my thoughts out there and trying to get this board more fun to be on

 

[nikebasketball]

I was wondering how long it would take one of you to insult the guy on a personal level because you didn't agree with his basketball opinions. It is classless and quite predicable. It reflects worse on the pitcher than it does the catcher.

this is a harsh board gary i have been a head high school basketball coach for 27 years and asst at swosu for 1 i just threw my thoughts about capel out there and got personally insulted bad i lost all respect for the majority of the members on this board i know more about bball then 9 out 10 of everyone on here and i got proof with 4 state titles as a head coach