Transfer Portal Thread

I hope you're right. Let's see how he does a) defensively and b) in the Big 12.

Let’s say he isn’t as good defensively. Unless he is a compete sieve whose man goes for 35 per night, that’s still a trade I’m willing to live with. Watching our offense for much of the season was painful, and a big reason is that we didn’t have guards who could create and finish. He brings an element we desperately lacked. And I’d also note that his numbers the past two years, in a very solid league that put four teams in the tournament, dwarf what Harkless did against a much lower level of competition his first two seasons of college. This would not be Aaron Calixte coming from Maine. This guy has played a lot of good competition all three years of his career.
 
Little chance we beat Baylor in the conference tournament if Jacob hadn’t been starting due to Harkless’s injury. As for that one extra win we needed to make it, they would have already been comfortably in if they hadn’t lost 9 of the last 10 games EJ played. I just don’t understand how this concept is so difficult to understand. The team played like complete garbage for the last month he was in the lineup, and he was a big reason why. After he got hurt, they laid two eggs, then went on a run that almost got them into the tourney after being completely out of the picture at the time of his injury.

But back to the question that prompted this. Sherfield is a much better player. There is a reason he was/is being recruited by Gonzaga while Harkless ended up at UNLV. His goal was to get closer to home, yet the two LA teams apparently didn’t want him.

Jacob Groves is not good. I’m sorry. He gives up three times the points he makes. I can’t believe you…… nevermind.
 
Jacob Groves is not good. I’m sorry. He gives up three times the points he makes. I can’t believe you…… nevermind.

So I guess you didn’t watch the game i mentioned where he led us in scoring against the number 3 team in the country? But I notice you don’t actually address any of the points I made, so there is probably no point in this discussion.
 
So I guess you didn’t watch the game i mentioned where he led us in scoring against the number 3 team in the country? But I notice you don’t actually address any of the points I made, so there is probably no point in this discussion.

I’m not going to address if a former walkon rolll player who struggles defending and shot the ball poorly gives us a better chance to win than one of the better scorers and defenders on the team. Teams scored often last year on the Groves pathway to a bucket. Drive past Jacob and score over Tanner. I don’t know if any coach that would feel he has a better chance of winning with Jacob Groves as a perimeter player than Harkless. Harkless actually shot a better percentage from 3 than Jacob.


I’m going to drop the subject.
 
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I’m not going to address if a former walkon rolll player who struggles defending and shot the ball poorly gives us a better chance to win than one of the better scorers and defenders on the team. Teams scored often last year on the Groves pathway to a bucket. Drive past Jacob and score over Tanner. I don’t know if any coach that would feel he has a better chance of winning with Jacob Groves as a perimeter player than Harkless. Harkless actually shot a better percentage from 3 than Jacob.


I’m going to drop the subject.

I've learned a few things on here in my short time.

1. Everything seems very fine with a lot of posters on here, even though we didn't make the Tournament last year. And even with the transfers, one could argue we might not make it next year.
2. Harkless is trash to a lot of people on here. To the point, they'll overrate Jacob Groves. Which got into double figures *checks notes* 6 times all year. Please, I would love to see the advanced analytics on him (this is for anyone). He's got a lot of growing to do before we can trust him to be consistent at anything, other than being useless on defense.
3. Even if these transfer guys aren't ruled eligible immediately, someone on here will act like everything is fine.
4. Thinking certain players aren't "good gets" is frowned upon on here. You should always appreciate every player OU gets regardless.
 
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Why are people still pretending Harkless was helping us win games?
 
I’m not going to address if a former walkon rolll player who struggles defending and shot the ball poorly gives us a better chance to win than one of the better scorers and defenders on the team. Teams scored often last year on the Groves pathway to a bucket. Drive past Jacob and score over Tanner. I don’t know if any coach that would feel he has a better chance of winning with Jacob Groves as a perimeter player than Harkless. Harkless actually shot a better percentage from 3 than Jacob.


I’m going to drop the subject.

Can you read? Did I make the argument that Jacob was a better overall player last year than Harkless? I said that in our biggest win of the season, he was the key to the win, and that if Harkless hadn’t been hurt, we almost certainly wouldn’t have won that specific game. I don’t know how anyone who watched THAT ONE GAME can dispute that. The point was in response to the argument that we somehow would have made the tourney if Harkless wasn’t hurt.
 
I've learned a few things on here in my short time.

1. Everything seems very fine with a lot of posters on here, even though we didn't make the Tournament last year. And even with the transfers, one could argue we might not make it next year.
2. Harkless is trash to a lot of people on here. To the point, they'll overrate Jacob Groves. Which got into double figures *checks notes* 6 times all year. Please, I would love to see the advanced analytics on him (this is for anyone). He's got a lot of growing to do before we can trust him to be consistent at anything, other than being useless on defense.
3. Even if these transfer guys aren't ruled eligible immediately, someone on here will act like everything is fine.
4. Thinking certain players aren't "good gets" is frowned upon on here. You should always appreciate every player OU gets regardless.

Again, this is a strawman because the question is whether we are better with the new guys than with Mo and EJ. Jacob only came up because someone suggested we would have made the tourney with Harkless, which is a patently ridiculous take if you actually watched how the season progressed with and without him last year. As for advanced analytics, I wonder what they say about a guard who is a poor shooter and a downright atrocious ball handler and passer. I personally think we will survive just fine without his 10 points and 20 terrible decisions per game, despite his so-called leadership.
 
Again, this is a strawman because the question is whether we are better with the new guys than with Mo and EJ. Jacob only came up because someone suggested we would have made the tourney with Harkless, which is a patently ridiculous take if you actually watched how the season progressed with and without him last year. As for advanced analytics, I wonder what they say about a guard who is a poor shooter and a downright atrocious ball handler and passer. I personally think we will survive just fine without his 10 points and 20 terrible decisions per game, despite his so-called leadership.

Harkless had the worst +/- on the entire team during conference play. He was very good in non conf though. I would have liked to see him stick around but his transferring out isn’t something to lose any sleep over. Joe B is the better player.
 
The team played like complete garbage for the last month he was in the lineup, and he was a big reason why.

Was he though?

In 14 conference games (13, really, given he played just 4 minutes at WVU), Harkless scored in double digits 9 times. He scored more than 15 three times and in our Big 12 opener on the road in Manhattan, where Sooner teams have gone to die, he scored 21 points. No one else was even close in that game except Gibson with 19. Plain and simple, we lose that game without Harkless (he also had seven rebounds).

In those 13 games he averaged 2.6 turnovers a game, but even that stat was skewed by two bad games, turnover-wise -- he had 8 at Stillwater and 7 at TCU, undeniably terrible outings in that regard. But in his other 11 games, he averaged 1.5 turnovers per game. And he had 15 and 11 points in those two games, including 5 of OU's 9 OT points in Fort Worth.

In Harkless' final game before the injury, the OT loss to texas in Norman, he scored 21 points with 5 steals, a block and just 1 turnover. OU didn't win that game, but it can fairly be argued that Harkless was the primary reason they were even competitive.

I would submit that singling out Harkless as the reason we lost so many conference games is misguided. If you wish to point to the oswho and TCU losses as being on his shoulders, fine, but as I demonstrated above, he made positive contributions in those games too (though I'm in no way defending his turnover numbers in those games).

I don't know why you decided Harkless was the player to blame this year, but clearly you did, as you have been relentless in pointing the finger at him at every opportunity. I think I've shown above that the story of Harkless' 2022 season is far more complicated and nuanced than the version you've been pushing the past weeks and months.
 
I'm only going to say one thing but I feel the need to jump in in defense of EJ. My expectations of him when he transferred under Kruger were next to nothing. His first year he had top two if not the best plus minus on the team. He hit huge shots in big games. He was one of the best rebounding guards i've seen wear an OU uniform. His effort and performance defensively were outstanding. He was never afraid to take it to the rack. He was a junk yard dog. I loved him.

Not sure what happened last year, he sure had some ups and downs. He did have way too many turnovers. Overall though I will always appreciate his contributions as a Sooner, and wish him luck. That being said, this team needs an influx of offense and as it looks right now, Joe B looks to be at least a fair replacement. While I don't think his loss is devastating, I was disappointed to see him go and I say good luck to him. He was a dawg of dawgs... Loved his contributions as a Sooner!
 
I'm only going to say one thing but I feel the need to jump in in defense of EJ. My expectations of him when he transferred under Kruger were next to nothing. His first year he had top two if not the best plus minus on the team. He hit huge shots in big games. He was one of the best rebounding guards i've seen wear an OU uniform. His effort and performance defensively were outstanding. He was never afraid to take it to the rack. He was a junk yard dog. I loved him.

Not sure what happened last year, he sure had some ups and downs. He did have way too many turnovers. Overall though I will always appreciate his contributions as a Sooner, and wish him luck. That being said, this team needs an influx of offense and as it looks right now, Joe B looks to be at least a fair replacement. While I don't think his loss is devastating, I was disappointed to see him go and I say good luck to him. He was a dawg of dawgs... Loved his contributions as a Sooner!

Nicely said; I agree.
 
The Groves brothers should not be starters on a contending team in the Big 12.

They could both be solid bench pieces, but are really limited by their lack of athleticism.
 
The Groves brothers should not be starters on a contending team in the Big 12.

They could both be solid bench pieces, but are really limited by their lack of athleticism.

Jacob groves would start on almost every big 12 team.


Edit: meant Tanner, not Jacob.
 
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Jacob groves would start on almost every big 12 team.

Yet he couldn’t start on a team that finished 19–16. It’s preposterous to say the above. I can’t think of a single team he would start for other than Kansas State.
 
I think maybe he meant Tanner would start? Obviously Jacob is more at a reserve level right now.
 
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