6/7

[Darwin]

B O B made a good call from the beginning. Joe C made a bad one then needed a fat checkbook to try and fix it. I think Lon could have got Blake to join Taylor and where would our program be now if a big chunk of the fan base didn't fly away in the Capels years.

I thought Lon was a good safe hire that could get us back to Sampson type results over time. Those Sampson years were not good enough for everyone even before the phone calls, so I expect Lon won't make everyone happy like Sid the OP.

 

[WTSooner]

You guys are assuming Lon would have come to OU after Sampson left. I'm guessing he wouldn't have. Joe had a difficult enough time getting him to come after Capel.

I'm also not sure after Sampson was the right time for LK. Assuming we could have kept that class intact, or not lost all of it, I think the best option for taking OU basketball to the next level was to take a shot with a guy like Capel. LK, if we even could have landed him, would have been more of the same. Not that that would have been a bad thing, but most OU fans were wondering what we could do to take that next step. I think Capel was worth the shot. It didn't work out. That happens sometimes.

But I really don't think a coach like LK would have given us a second look at Sampson.

 

[KBaden145]

You guys are assuming Lon would have come to OU after Sampson left. I'm guessing he wouldn't have. Joe had a difficult enough time getting him to come after Capel.

I'm also not sure after Sampson was the right time for LK. Assuming we could have kept that class intact, or not lost all of it, I think the best option for taking OU basketball to the next level was to take a shot with a guy like Capel. LK, if we even could have landed him, would have been more of the same. Not that that would have been a bad thing, but most OU fans were wondering what we could do to take that next step. I think Capel was worth the shot. It didn't work out. That happens sometimes.

But I really don't think a coach like LK would have given us a second look at Sampson.

No real reason why he wouldn't have come after Sampson. Potential sanctions looming at the time but once those cleared we would have a real good shot. He still would have signed Blake and we would definitely not have dipped like we did in that other guys last 2 seasons. If say we would be at least as good as we were in Sampson last few years right now, if not a little better.


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[Big Old Booger]

You guys are assuming Lon would have come to OU after Sampson left. I'm guessing he wouldn't have. Joe had a difficult enough time getting him to come after Capel.

I'm also not sure after Sampson was the right time for LK. Assuming we could have kept that class intact, or not lost all of it, I think the best option for taking OU basketball to the next level was to take a shot with a guy like Capel. LK, if we even could have landed him, would have been more of the same. Not that that would have been a bad thing, but most OU fans were wondering what we could do to take that next step. I think Capel was worth the shot. It didn't work out. That happens sometimes.

But I really don't think a coach like LK would have given us a second look at Sampson.

If Joe C had opened the checkbook after Sampson left LK would have listened just like he did when Capel was fired. Money talks, always has and always will. When Sampson left the program was at a crossroads and the last thing we needed was a young coach, a possible up and comer, who has no ties to the region, and very little experience on the cheap. That's what we got.

Had LK been brought in, that recruiting class sticks. You can't tell me Scotty Reynolds wouldn't have wanted to play for an ex-NBA coach who knows how to coach guards. Sorry, I don't buy that. We know Taylor Griffin didn't like the way Sampson treated his players and we know and can see how LK treats them. Reynolds and BG and the kid from Texas would have been a definite final 4 and probably an NC team.

Like I said earlier money talks and that's why I was so frustrated because Joe made a horrible choice for the program at that point.

 

[Big Old Booger]

No real reason why he wouldn't have come after Sampson. Potential sanctions looming at the time but once those cleared we would have a real good shot. He still would have signed Blake and we would definitely not have dipped like we did in that other guys last 2 seasons. If say we would be at least as good as we were in Sampson last few years right now, if not a little better.


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This team is better than Sampsons last 2-3 teams and is only 2nd to the BG team in the last 10 seasons, IMO.

If LK took the job with both Capels sanctions and Sampsons he would have taken it with just Sampsons.

 

[KBaden145]

This team is better than Sampsons last 2-3 teams and is only 2nd to the BG team in the last 10 seasons, IMO.

If LK took the job with both Capels sanctions and Sampsons he would have taken it with just Sampsons.

Sure. I agree except for the 2005 team.


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[WTSooner]

If Joe C had opened the checkbook after Sampson left LK would have listened just like he did when Capel was fired. Money talks, always has and always will. When Sampson left the program was at a crossroads and the last thing we needed was a young coach, a possible up and comer, who has no ties to the region, and very little experience on the cheap. That's what we got.

Had LK been brought in, that recruiting class sticks. You can't tell me Scotty Reynolds wouldn't have wanted to play for an ex-NBA coach who knows how to coach guards. Sorry, I don't buy that. We know Taylor Griffin didn't like the way Sampson treated his players and we know and can see how LK treats them. Reynolds and BG and the kid from Texas would have been a definite final 4 and probably an NC team.

Like I said earlier money talks and that's why I was so frustrated because Joe made a horrible choice for the program at that point.

The money has little to nothing to do with why LK is here.

I'll say it again, I don't think LK would have came to Norman back then. And he wouldn't have been as good a fit either. His specialty is rebuilding programs. OU didn't really need rebuilding at the time. I know you can sit here and say LK would have come, and he should have been on Joe C's radar. You can say that all day. But fact of the matter is, it, and my position of the opposite, are impossible to prove. Truth is, we don't know.

He had only been at UNLV for what, 2 years at that point? LK isn't the type of man to jump ship like that, IMO. That is part of what makes him so appealing. And by all accounts, he and his family liked it out there.

I also don't buy the argument that LK would have kept that class together. I think most of those guys were gone no matter who we hired. You can say playing for the experienced, ex-NBA guy should have appealed to them. Well, at the time we thought the chance to play for a young up and coming black head coach that wanted to play fast (or so we thought) would appeal as well. There is no magic formula. LK has missed out on "lesser" players than both Reynolds and James since coming to OU. There are no guarantees.

I'll say it again, at the time of the Capel hire, I thought it was a great chance to take. We just picked the wrong young, black, up and coming HC to make our own. Plenty of guys that are/were in nearly the same position as Capel have been successful in recent years. Some at lesser basketball programs than OU. Sometimes the right decisions end up not producing the results you would have wanted. That is life.

 

[WTSooner]

This team is better than Sampsons last 2-3 teams and is only 2nd to the BG team in the last 10 seasons, IMO.

If LK took the job with both Capels sanctions and Sampsons he would have taken it with just Sampsons.

I don't think there were any "sanctions" from Kelvin still in effect when LK took over. At most, it would have been probation, which by definition has zero affect on anything. I couldn't find an article to support this, so if I'm wrong, please let me know. But when LK took over, any recruiting restrictions, scholarships that were taken away, or anything like that, were only from Capel.

 

[KBaden145]

The money has little to nothing to do with why LK is here.



I'll say it again, I don't think LK would have came to Norman back then. And he wouldn't have been as good a fit either. His specialty is rebuilding programs. OU didn't really need rebuilding at the time. I know you can sit here and say LK would have come, and he should have been on Joe C's radar. You can say that all day. But fact of the matter is, it, and my position of the opposite, are impossible to prove. Truth is, we don't know.



He had only been at UNLV for what, 2 years at that point? LK isn't the type of man to jump ship like that, IMO. That is part of what makes him so appealing. And by all accounts, he and his family liked it out there.



I also don't buy the argument that LK would have kept that class together. I think most of those guys were gone no matter who we hired. You can say playing for the experienced, ex-NBA guy should have appealed to them. Well, at the time we thought the chance to play for a young up and coming black head coach that wanted to play fast (or so we thought) would appeal as well. There is no magic formula. LK has missed out on "lesser" players than both Reynolds and James since coming to OU. There are no guarantees.



I'll say it again, at the time of the Capel hire, I thought it was a great chance to take. We just picked the wrong young, black, up and coming HC to make our own. Plenty of guys that are/were in nearly the same position as Capel have been successful in recent years. Some at lesser basketball programs than OU. Sometimes the right decisions end up not producing the results you would have wanted. That is life.

I disagree on most of this except CLK leaving Vegas after only 2 seasons. That makes some sense, knowing him. I still think we could have gotten him to come. You're wrong about him not being a good fit at the time. We were on a downward trend especially assuming, as you did, he would not have kept that recruiting class together. Kelvins last season was a big disappointment. We did need rebuilding. The one thing you're right about is we just don't know.


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[BruinSooner]

This team is better than Sampsons last 2-3 teams and is only 2nd to the BG team in the last 10 seasons, IMO.

If LK took the job with both Capels sanctions and Sampsons he would have taken it with just Sampsons.

Sampson's 2005 team was Big12 regular season champs but this year's team has a chance to go further in the NCAAs. That 2005 underachieved in the tourney (damn Utah game).

This year's team has been consistent and competitive in every game. Def can't say the same for Sampson's teams.

 

[jerry]

B O B made a good call from the beginning. Joe C made a bad one then needed a fat checkbook to try and fix it. I think Lon could have got Blake to join Taylor and where would our program be now if a big chunk of the fan base didn't fly away in the Capels years.

I thought Lon was a good safe hire that could get us back to Sampson type results over time. Those Sampson years were not good enough for everyone even before the phone calls, so I expect Lon won't make everyone happy like Sid the OP.

Agree!! Taylor staying got Blake because Blake wanted to play with big brother. Lon would have been perfect following Sampson. A good way to measure a coach is did they leave the program better than they got it. Capel failed miserably in that evaluation. Lon has left every program better off.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The money has little to nothing to do with why LK is here.

.

How can you say that when it took joe c to up the ante before he came?


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[Big Old Booger]

How can you say that when it took joe c to up the ante before he came?


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Exactly. Reports at the time said Joe offered the job 2-3 times before LK accepted. Once the money was too good to pass he accepted the job. And, let's not forget his big mansion was just finished when he took the job at OU. So, 4-5 years earlier the house wasn't even planned and he's from the area so if the money had been there when Sampson left he would have been the next coach. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Darwin]

Assuming we could have kept that class intact, or not lost all of it, I think the best option for taking OU basketball to the next level was to take a shot with a guy like Capel. LK, if we even could have landed him, would have been more of the same. Not that that would have been a bad thing, but most OU fans were wondering what we could do to take that next step. I think Capel was worth the shot. It didn't work out. That happens sometimes.

That is what Joe C did, took a shot. I certainly saw Capel"s upside but wondered from the beginning if he was too young for the car keys and if he took us to the next level he would be hired away.

Why did people have a problem with the program before the phone calls because that's what I hope to get back to with Lon and then roll in the occasional great player like Wayman or Blake. If Lon stays at that level we should be fine with that.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The money has little to nothing to do with why LK is here.



I'll say it again, I don't think LK would have came to Norman back then. And he wouldn't have been as good a fit either. His specialty is rebuilding programs. OU didn't really need rebuilding at the time. I know you can sit here and say LK would have come, and he should have been on Joe C's radar. You can say that all day. But fact of the matter is, it, and my position of the opposite, are impossible to prove. Truth is, we don't know.



He had only been at UNLV for what, 2 years at that point? LK isn't the type of man to jump ship like that, IMO. That is part of what makes him so appealing. And by all accounts, he and his family liked it out there.



I also don't buy the argument that LK would have kept that class together. I think most of those guys were gone no matter who we hired. You can say playing for the experienced, ex-NBA guy should have appealed to them. Well, at the time we thought the chance to play for a young up and coming black head coach that wanted to play fast (or so we thought) would appeal as well. There is no magic formula. LK has missed out on "lesser" players than both Reynolds and James since coming to OU. There are no guarantees.



I'll say it again, at the time of the Capel hire, I thought it was a great chance to take. We just picked the wrong young, black, up and coming HC to make our own. Plenty of guys that are/were in nearly the same position as Capel have been successful in recent years. Some at lesser basketball programs than OU. Sometimes the right decisions end up not producing the results you would have wanted. That is life.

I disagree with everything except the fact he may not have left UNLV after 2 years but if I remember correctly, his son has finished his eligibility at UNLV by that time so it would have been a good time. The OU program at that time was better than the UNLV. He most assuredly would have taken the job then if the money had been there.

LK would have certainly kept that class together. Look at his resume. Remember when he was hired Osby said he didn't know who LK was but spoke with his dad and his dad was so impressed and assured Osby he was in a better situation. LK had a better chance to keep that recruiting class together than did Capel. Not to mention, Henson has more years of NBA playing experience than Capel. So, not only would we have an ex NBA coach but an ex NBA player as the assistant, both of which were guards.

His specialty may be rebuilding programs to you but really he is known for going to where the money is located. He took KSU as far as they could go and Florida offered more. He took Florida as far as he thought they could go so he left for a more prestigious job at Illinois. Then the NBA, again more prestigious. He flopped there so he took the UNLV job. I'm sure at that point he had an eye on retirement and who wouldn't want to retire in the desert at Las Vegas?

You are too young to remember when he was at KSU and the shock it sent thru Manhattan when he took the UF job. That had nothing to do with rebuilding UF, but more about money.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I don't think there were any "sanctions" from Kelvin still in effect when LK took over. At most, it would have been probation, which by definition has zero affect on anything. I couldn't find an article to support this, so if I'm wrong, please let me know. But when LK took over, any recruiting restrictions, scholarships that were taken away, or anything like that, were only from Capel.

When LK accepted the job we were in danger of being labeled a "repeat offender" due to the fact the Capel cheating occurred while still on probation for the phone calls.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...rs-ncaa-finds-major-violations-men-basketball

The violations occurred while the Sooners were still on probation for major rules violations involving recruiting phone calls by former coach Kelvin Sampson, a case that ended in 2006, and football players being paid for work they weren't doing at a Norman car dealership in 2007.

Under NCAA bylaws, a repeat violator can face a minimum of having the sport dropped for one or two seasons with no scholarships provided for two seasons.

Oklahoma chose to settle the case through a summary disposition, in which the university and NCAA agree that major violations have occurred and work jointly to investigate the case and decide on penalties.

In reporting the Taliaferro case in July, Oklahoma admitted to two major rules violations but asked the NCAA for leniency despite its second serious infractions case in the last five years. The school conceded it does qualify under the description of repeat violator -- having two major infractions cases within five years in the same sport -- but said previous cases show those penalties "are not appropriate in this case."

 

[AdaSooner]

Exactly. Reports at the time said Joe offered the job 2-3 times before LK accepted. Once the money was too good to pass he accepted the job. And, let's not forget his big mansion was just finished when he took the job at OU. So, 4-5 years earlier the house wasn't even planned and he's from the area so if the money had been there when Sampson left he would have been the next coach. You can take that to the bank.

You have a good memory. Money was indeed a factor in getting Kruger to Norman. I'm sure that was not the only reason and I doubt if it was at the top of his list. But there is no denying that he turned the offer down on the first two attempts until the offer was too good to pass up.

Gotta give Joe C credit for not making the same mistake by hiring on the cheap again. He learned his less on that one.

 

[WTSooner]

If money was the only factor, do you think if Joe C. had offered him whatever he ended up taking, from Day 1, LK would have come straight to OU? I don't. That is why I say money wasn't the biggest factor.

Basically Joe C. needed to wear him down. Needed to keep LK thinking about it for days, or weeks. Yes, increasing the money was a factor in that, but if you think LK is somehow living his life differently now, then he would have with $500k less, or a $1M less per year, you are crazy. That money shouldn't mean anything to LK. He has been around long enough, and earned enough, that he could retire comfortably today, never earning another penny. I get what you guys are saying, I just don't think it was a money only issue. But that was Joe C.'s best/only way of keeping the conversation going, to keeping LK on the hook, so to speak.

Unfortunately, we'll never know how it would have played out. I know BOB wanted LK after Sampson, but I don't recall many other posters wanting him, nor was his name in the media. I still don't think he would have taken the job then, but that is jmo.

 

[WTSooner]

That is what Joe C did, took a shot. I certainly saw Capel"s upside but wondered from the beginning if he was too young for the car keys and if he took us to the next level he would be hired away.

Why did people have a problem with the program before the phone calls because that's what I hope to get back to with Lon and then roll in the occasional great player like Wayman or Blake. If Lon stays at that level we should be fine with that.

I don't think Capel's age, in and of itself, was too young to let him succeed. There are similar coaches all over the country having success. It just didn't work out for him. LOTS of reasons for that. I'm not a Jeff Capel fan at all at this point, but I think in time, he could probably be a good coach at a solid program someday if he gets another chance.

And it's a little funny that so many of the people that claim to have hated Capel from Day 1, were some of his biggest defenders back in the day.

Most OU fans wanted to go with a high upside hire after Sampson. Most thought KS couldn't get our program to the next level. LK would have been almost a carbon copy of KS. I don't think that is what our program needed at the time. We had a chance to make that home run hire, that hire that could bump us up a notch. Just didn't work.

 

[skyvue]

who wouldn't want to retire in the desert at Las Vegas?

I sure wouldn't. LV is fun for a 48-hour visit, but living there full-time? No, thanks.