Big 12 Expansion

[MNsooner]

There is no more depressing subject for a Sooner fan than expanding the Big 12 Conference. There's isn't an institution the conference can bring in that will do anything other than dilute the overall product and subtract money from the Sooner war chest.

A one-loss OU team can get into the CFB playoff. If Baylor and TCU have a problem with that then they can go fly a kite. If OU drops from 3 to 4 in the rankings after a win then don't lose to a sorry-assed Texas team.

There is NOTHING in a ten-team Big 12 that prevents us from accomplishing our goals if we handle our business.

This whole mess is the goofiest issue I've ever tried to follow as a Sooner fan. I wish we'd just leave.

What's most infuriating is that this "expansion" will rob us of a true pleasure: the home and home hoops schedule.

Exactly how I feel. I don't want the to invite schools that will decrease the quality of the conference. I don't mind getting bigger if we are adding top quality teams, but it seems like we are expanding for the wrong reasons.

 

[SoonerSpock]

The problem with a 10 team conference based in mid-America is that the population footprint of the B12 is 39.2 million people. While the Pac-12 has approximately a 65 million population, the B1G 85 million, the ACC 94 million and the SEC 95 million. Adding Memphis, Cincy, UCF and USF would double the B12 footprint to approximately 78 million. Drop Memphis and add BYU and the population footprint is stll 74 million. Bringing in both UCF and South Florida allows their rivalry to be a Power 5 conference rivalry that would make elevating both their athletic programs much easier over the next 8 years until the B12 grant of media rights contracts expire. If things have not developed both financially and competitively as hoped by 2025 the Sooners would be free to go to the B1G, SEC or Pac12.

Population long term means TV set and TV set equal TV revenue. With the projected conference revenue for the conferences it is easy to see 5 years down the road each school from the B1G, SEC and ACC earning $10-15 million more TV revenue per year than the B12 schools $100-$150 more revenue over a decade will prohibit the B12 from providing competitive facilities in the future. Also not having those additional dollars will mean most school in the B12 will have to spend additional monies that could go to academics try to put competitive athletic teams on the field. That is a loosing proposition long term.

Being on the West Coast and not having prime time access to the central and eastern time zones viewing audience the Pac 12 has revenue issues similar to the B12 despite having a population base 66% bigger than the B12.

For certain the B12 cannot take a do nothing approach and fall $10-15 million dollars per year per school behind the ACC, B1G and SEC conferences in TV revenue. Too much athletic revenue shortfall for B12 schools to overcome and remain competitive with the other Power 5 conference schools. Moreover a decreasing state financial support environment is making athletic revenue increasingly important source for financially strapped universities and university presidents.

 

[WTSooner]

Exactly how I feel. I don't want the to invite schools that will decrease the quality of the conference. I don't mind getting bigger if we are adding top quality teams, but it seems like we are expanding for the wrong reasons.

Decrease the quality? BYU might have the best program in the Big 12 outside of OU and UT. Certainly they'd be in the top third. Teams like Cincy and Houston have both shown potential in the past, and I'd imagine would be middle of the pack type teams. All teams would be strong in hoops.

Nobody is leaving the Big 10, the SEC, or now the ACC. VERY doubtful anybody is leaving the PAC. So we aren't going to be getting "top quality teams". But then again, neither did the Big 10 when they added Maryland and Rutgers. Neither did the SEC when they added Mizzou. Neither did the PAC when they added Colorado and Utah. Didn't hear those conferences complaining b/c ND (or whatever big name school you guys want) wasn't walking thru that door.

The Big 12 would be a better conference after adding 2-4 of these teams. In every way imaginable. Would it put us on par with the Big 10 and SEC? Probably not in terms of dollars, but from a competitive standpoint, I'm not sure we're below the Big 10 right now, and the SEC thing is blown out of proportion. Outside of Bama and UF's recent past dominance, they aren't doing anything as a conference that the Big 12 isn't doing.

 

[thebigabd]

Getting BYU would be awesome for the Big 12, in both hoops and football. They are a great program, and being in a major conference will help them even more. They have international brand recognition, a lot of history, great fans, etc. It would be like legitimately replacing Nebraska.

Houston, on the other hand, has a lot of potential but isn't that "kind" of university that typical Big 12 schools are. It's urban, not prestigious academically, not a great fan-base, etc.

Of the other schools mentioned, honestly, I like Cincy or Boise State the best. I used to fight for UCF and while that would be ok, Boise State has had a consistently good football team and Cincy is usually solid as well.

 

[WTSooner]

Boise adds nothing but a decent football team, and even that has taken a big hit in recent years. Travel would be bad. Their secondary sports would be bad. And I don't think they are much in the academic world. Doubt they are even being considered.

 

[Sooner04]

The Big 12 would be a better conference after adding 2-4 of these teams. In every way imaginable.

I disagree.

 

[WTSooner]

I disagree.

Convince me. I'll listen. I think the only argument you could make is that we'd play a lesser level of competition due to how the divisions would be arranged in football and hoops.

I'd argue that we won't lose anything in football, b/c we'll likely be grouped with the Texas schools, who typically, along side OU and OSU, make up most of the top half of the Big 12. So what if we don't play KU, KSU, and ISU every year? You can't tell me BYU, Cincy, or whomever isn't better most years anyways. So we lose nothing in terms of competitiveness in football.

In hoops? We'd lose a second game each season against KU and ISU. That would sting a bit. But Memphis, Cincy, and even BYU have all had some pretty decent bball teams over the years. I'd argue that adding games against them would help offset losing a single game against KU and ISU.

It'll be more money for the Big 12. It'll be a broader footprint, even if not significantly. It'll make a football CCG make more sense, which is almost reason enough to do it alone right there.

The Big 12 can expand, and OU can still entertain offers of leaving in 8 years when the GOR is up. I think that is exactly what OU and Boren want to happen. Add the best teams possible to the Big 12. Let things play out for 8 years. And reevaluate. Big 12 not working? We'll likely have options to go to any conference we want at that time. Big 12 working better than most think? Stick around. I still say it's in OU's best interests to try to make some form of the Big 12 work. That said, I don't think it can work long-term with 10 teams. 12-14 teams? I don't know. But I'd like to test it out for 8 years before we jump ship.

 

[thebigabd]

I am with WTsooner on this one....

Cincy and BYU, and you've done a great job. Added a lot to the conference.

 

[piehole]

The Big 12 can expand, and OU can still entertain offers of leaving in 8 years when the GOR is up.

But an expanded conference certainly means a new GoR. The ACC GoR is 20 years. Big12 newbies will want the same. You might get away with fifteen. Changing conferences is a huge deal, who is going to do it for eight years? Less really, because as you near the end of the GoR the exposure diminishes. So five years and you are back on the market as damaged goods? That's nuts.

The Big12 is the ugly duckling of the Power 5. Even after we add, we're still the ugly duckling on paper but we can narrow the gap on TV $.* The immediate issue now is whether the chronic fatigue of Big12 insecurity makes someone crack, especially if the expansion search is protracted. I think some Big12 admins are feeling it and some school(s) who feels it could find a nice, secure B1G/SEC/ACC/Pac12(?) landing spot is on the hotline, just like they have been for years, exploring options. Realistically only OU, UT and maybe KU have that kind of mojo. Part of me doesn't see it happening but you know calls are being made with that little bit of extra urgency. And if calls are being made, anything can happen.

I say go big and get four teams - BYU, Colo St., Cinci/Memphis and UConn. UConn is really a geographic bridge-too-far, so maybe swap Memphis but I just like UConn better. East coast markets and all that (but is that all it's cracked up to be? It's disputed). Probably the best mix of academics, new markets, football and hoops and profile schools. And no directionals - it makes a difference in perception and if I had a dime for every time the word "perception" has been used by Boren/media in bemoaning the state of our conference... WVU gets two eastern friends and BYU has a buddy out west. Too spread out? Yes. Not perfect but no combo will be.

*The Pac12 Network is substantially under performing and the format/distribution sounds like a mess. The Big12 can have the better network if we do it right. And if we do, hey, we finally look like we have our poop together, we're not the ugly duckling anymore and recruiting improves. One thing is for sure, the conference has to demand that UT drop their network if we hope to maximize what expansion can bring. I know UT says it is here to stay but we won't have this leverage again. Lots of luck with that though. It makes we wonder if they start to eye the Pac12, which could conceivably let them keep the network, at least in some form.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Pathetic how our soft former big 12 leaders have put us in the outside looking in.. there really are no solid moves

 

[slappy in OP]

But an expanded conference certainly means a new GoR.

I disagree 100% on this "certainty". The G5 schools are desperate to gain admittance to the Big 12 and IMO most would jump at the chance to do so without a GOR extension.

With the existing TV contracts the Big 12 has, we have automatic buy-ins for additional teams. OU needs to do what is best for OU. Add 4 G5 teams. Make them accept a decreased payout for the time remaining on the current GOR. The G5s get a major raise over their horrific TV contracts they have currently, while the current Big 12 schools take the newly added G5's cut for the remainder of the GOR. Then OU walks once the GOR is fulfilled.

OU and TX hold the cards over the TV providers in this case. Hopefully, OU and TX do not agree to an GOR extension which the non-OU/TX/maybe KU Big 12 members would want.

Losing the double round robin is no good for basketball, but making the money to be competitive as a program for the next several years is more important in my eyes. Just my opinion.

Big 12 needs to die.

 

[NickZepp]

Big 12 shoulda got Louisville and BYU or UConn when they got WVU and maybe they would be a stable conference. Now it's probably more likely we see fewer teams rather than expansion.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Big 12 shoulda got Louisville and BYU or UConn when they got WVU and maybe they would be a stable conference. Now it's probably more likely we see fewer teams rather than expansion.

When we got WVU I think we could have gotten Louisville, Clemson and FSU. A year or two later was too late as Grants-of-Rights had been implemented and the ACC was perceived as more than a basketball conference.

 

[NMSooner'80]

Avoid BYU like the plague. They're like blue-wearing Longhorns when it comes to being a bunch of spoiled divas.

Bring in Houston, dump Baylor as soon as possible, and then add Cincinnati and Memphis for the football potential / basketball traditions and TV sets in those metro areas.

I'd love it if UNM were worth a look, but the Lobos' athletic mismanagement has dated back to the early 1950's. It cost them Tommy McDonald and a very good head coach when their school prez ordered them not to go to a bowl game after an 8-2 season. That was because of an absurd policy of "de-emphasis on athletics in favor of academics." They didn't get better at trying to run an athletic department in the ensuing years, either.

My Lobo buddies have even told stories of how many "academics" have wished they could drop football without even having the slightest idea of what that would cost them in terms of being a D-1 school. And some of their idiot faculty have campaigned openly for dropping all sports because they somehow believe they'd magically have more money to spend on academics. But the main result of that foolishness would be that the other schools in the state would just get that share of the athletics funding pie for their own teams.

 

[WTSooner]

lol, Baylor isn't going anywhere. And they shouldn't.

 

[WTSooner]

Big 12 shoulda got Louisville and BYU or UConn when they got WVU and maybe they would be a stable conference. Now it's probably more likely we see fewer teams rather than expansion.

Are you suggesting we're closer to contraction than expansion?

There is zero chance of that.