Daimion Collins - now leaning toward Kentucky

[WTSooner]

Conference teams are our peers. It's by far the easiest way to assess where we are as a program. Way too many variables for OOC games. And even though we manage to schedule some good teams, most are still good teams that OU should beat.

I see some folks that used to say conference games matter more, now saying the opposite b/c we don't win at a high level in conference. Pretty sad.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Conference teams are our peers. It's by far the easiest way to assess where we are as a program. Way too many variables for OOC games. And even though we manage to schedule some good teams, most are still good teams that OU should beat.

I see some folks that used to say conference games matter more, now saying the opposite b/c we don't win at a high level in conference. Pretty sad.

You’re right, that’s why programs nationwide hang banners for things like “40-32 in league play in a four-year stretch” and “three top 4 league finishes in five years,” but no one hangs banners for making the tournament.

The only thing you are actually right about is that noncon schedules have a huge variable, namely, the strength of schedule. Of course, we play the one of the toughest schedules in the nation every year AND put up a great record against that competition, so whichever variable you want to consider shows that we are ahead of teams like OSU and Kstate and others who play a soft schedule.

 

[mict085]

Is it too much to ask to win the conference title from time to time?

I suppose I shouldn’t even think about OU ever winning a national title. That will Never happen.

 

[daqman]

Is it too much to ask to win the conference title from time to time?

I suppose I shouldn’t even think about OU ever winning a national title. That will Never happen.

I project we will not compete for the conference title this year. Or next. Or the next.

 

[Eielson]

there are only about 10-15 teams that wouldn't trade their last 10 years with OU's last 10 years ..

You don't actually think we've been a top 10-15 program over the past 10 years, do you? I've never claimed Lon is a terrible coach. I just think we're stuck in P5 mediocrity. He's good enough that he's essentially unfirable, especially with his well-earned reputation as one of the few good guys. But he'll also never take us to the next level -- and by next level, I mean where we were from 1980-2005. Yes, having UK, KU, or Duke expectations is not realistic here -- but we spent a quarter-century with two different coaches at a higher-level.

I could easily come up with a list of 16 teams with a better past decade, but do you actually believe that we might be top 10 for the past decade? I don't think that position is even remotely defensible.

 

[Eielson]

Fair enough but compare us to other P5 teams. I think about six have as good a track record as we do as far as making the tournament. Some other schools have had a random year where they win their league or finish in the top two or three, but also have many years where they miss the dance. I am confident every college player would rather play on four NCAA teams than have one really good seasons and two or three crappy ones that end in the NIT or worse.

Do you mean non-P5 teams? Or do you mean just in terms of NCAA appearance consistency?

I think NCAA tournament games are a better measurement than appearances. I think most athletes would take two Sweet 16s (6 games) or one Final 4 (5 games) over 4 first-round exits (4 games).

 

[skyvue]

Do you mean non-P5 teams? Or do you mean just in terms of NCAA appearance consistency?

I think NCAA tournament games are a better measurement than appearances. I think most athletes would take two Sweet 16s (6 games) or one Final 4 (5 games) over 4 first-round exits (4 games).

Thankfully, in addition to all those appearances, we have both a Sweet Sixteen and a Final Four under Coach Kruger in our past five seasons, so I guess we're all happy, right?

 

[WichitaSooner]

Do you mean non-P5 teams? Or do you mean just in terms of NCAA appearance consistency?

I think NCAA tournament games are a better measurement than appearances. I think most athletes would take two Sweet 16s (6 games) or one Final 4 (5 games) over 4 first-round exits (4 games).

No I mean P5. The hypotheticals you give are good ones and could be reasonably debated, but my point was in response to the people who harp on conference record. I just don’t think any player would opt for a couple extra conference wins at the expense of making the tournament every year.

 

[BoulderSooner]

You don't actually think we've been a top 10-15 program over the past 10 years, do you? I've never claimed Lon is a terrible coach. I just think we're stuck in P5 mediocrity. He's good enough that he's essentially unfirable, especially with his well-earned reputation as one of the few good guys. But he'll also never take us to the next level -- and by next level, I mean where we were from 1980-2005. Yes, having UK, KU, or Duke expectations is not realistic here -- but we spent a quarter-century with two different coaches at a higher-level.

I could easily come up with a list of 16 teams with a better past decade, but do you actually believe that we might be top 10 for the past decade? I don't think that position is even remotely defensible.

please give me those 16 teams ?

 

[pnkranger]

Here are the teams who have made a Final Four since 2015. The top 6 are easy.

1. Villanova (2 FF) - 2 titles
2. North Carolina (2 FF) - 1 title
3. Duke (1 FF) - 1 title
4. Virginia (1 FF) - 1 title
5. Michigan State (2 FF)
6. Gonzaga (15-5) - 1 Champ game, 2 EE, 2 SS

After that, you've got:

Michigan (10-4) - 1 Champ game, 2 SS
Wisconsin (9-4) - 1 Champ game, 2 SS (made FF in 2014 as well)
Kentucky (13-5) - 1 FF, 2 EE, 1 SS
Kansas (12-5) - 1 FF, 2 EE
Texas Tech (8-3) - 1 Champ game, 1 EE
Oregon (9-4) - 1 FF, 1 EE, 1 SS
Oklahoma (7-4) - 1 FF, 1 SS
Syracuse (7-3) - 1 FF, 1 SS
Auburn (5-2) - 1 FF
South Carolina (4-1) - 1 FF
Loyola Chicago (4-1) - 1 FF

I've got OU in 13th place in terms of tournament performance over the last 5 years and 3rd best in the Big 12. If we had won a national championship in 1988, 2002, or 2015, it would have changed everything about how our program is viewed.

Keep in mind we have a winning record against every team in the Big 12 except Kansas...

 

[hoopsaustin]

Here are the teams who have made a Final Four since 2015. The top 6 are easy.

1. Villanova (2 FF) - 2 titles
2. North Carolina (2 FF) - 1 title
3. Duke (1 FF) - 1 title
4. Virginia (1 FF) - 1 title
5. Michigan State (2 FF)
6. Gonzaga (15-5) - 1 Champ game, 2 EE, 2 SS

After that, you've got:

Michigan (10-4) - 1 Champ game, 2 SS
Wisconsin (9-4) - 1 Champ game, 2 SS (made FF in 2014 as well)
Kentucky (13-5) - 1 FF, 2 EE, 1 SS
Kansas (12-5) - 1 FF, 2 EE
Texas Tech (8-3) - 1 Champ game, 1 EE
Oregon (9-4) - 1 FF, 1 EE, 1 SS
Oklahoma (7-4) - 1 FF, 1 SS
Syracuse (7-3) - 1 FF, 1 SS
Auburn (5-2) - 1 FF
South Carolina (4-1) - 1 FF
Loyola Chicago (4-1) - 1 FF

I've got OU in 13th place in terms of tournament performance over the last 5 years and 3rd best in the Big 12. If we had won a national championship in 1988, 2002, or 2015, it would have changed everything about how our program is viewed.

Keep in mind we have a winning record against every team in the Big 12 except Kansas...

Great post. I love that Chicago loyola is on there. What a fun tournament that year was

 

[pnkranger]

This also hammers home that the best conferences are:

ACC
Big 10
Big 12
Big East

 

[vbdad]

I'd say we were top 10 with Billy. Top 25 with LK and Kelvin.

 

[daqman]

Finished the season unranked the last 4 years.
Will it be 5?

 

[Stikboy]

I'd say we were top 10 with Billy. Top 25 with LK and Kelvin.

Yep.

And that is why there were so many more butts in the seats, even during sustained football success! Like someone said on another thread, OU fans will support elite..

 

[skyvue]

Yep.

And that is why there were so many more butts in the seats, even during sustained football success! Like someone said on another thread, OU fans will support elite..

It's not remotely that simple. It was a very different time; there's really no comparison. No Thunder, many fewer televised games, no internet. Attendance for college hoops is much lower almost everywhere now than it was then.

And there were fewer LNC sell-outs in those days than many today think.

 

[sheepdogs1]

It's not remotely that simple. It was a very different time; there's really no comparison. No Thunder, many fewer televised games, no internet. Attendance for college hoops is much lower almost everywhere now than it was then.

And there were fewer LNC sell-outs in those days than many today think.

The student body support really isn't existent in comparative terms.

 

[skyvue]

The student body support really isn't existent in comparative terms.

And they are less supportive of the football team, too. Like I said, a very different time.

 

[Eielson]

please give me those 16 teams ?

In no order:

1. UK
2. KU
3. Duke
4. Michigan State
5. Wisconsin
6. UVA
7. UNC
8. Gonzaga
9. Villanova
10. Michigan
11. UF
12. UConn
13. Butler
14. Purdue
15. Louisville
16. Baylor
17. Arizona

These are clear-cut better teams I came up with in about 5 minutes. I threw in a 17th because I'm sure I'm overlooking something on one or two teams (or if you want to argue Louisville's success has been forfeited). These are just the clear-cut ones that have had better on-court performance. There are several others like Ohio State that are easily argued or not far behind.

 

[CoachTalk]

In no order:

1. UK
2. KU
3. Duke
4. Michigan State
5. Wisconsin
6. UVA
7. UNC
8. Gonzaga
9. Villanova
10. Michigan
11. UF
12. UConn
13. Butler
14. Purdue
15. Louisville
16. Baylor
17. Arizona

These are clear-cut better teams I came up with in about 5 minutes. I threw in a 17th because I'm sure I'm overlooking something on one or two teams (or if you want to argue Louisville's success has been forfeited). These are just the clear-cut ones that have had better on-court performance. There are several others like Ohio State that are easily argued or not far behind.

What’s butler done since 2011? Yes 2 great years. Zona about to be 0-187.
Purdue 1 elite 8 in 10 years. Louisville... doesn’t count.

I’ll look some more tomorrow.