Every time I think about next year, two names pop into my head.

[Soonerman]

What if I ask Mizzou, KU, KSU, OSU, Texas, aTm, Tech, etc.? LOL

In the bolded games above, Newell scored 0 points. Now, what is your point?

 

[Big Old Booger]

In the bolded games above, Newell scored 0 points. Now, what is your point?

My point is two-fold:

1.) he was playing out of position (he's not a PG)
2.) he had very little if any coaching

Also, in the very little time he saw, while playing out of position, he had way more defensive intensity than Pledger ever displayed the entire season and Newell could take the ball to the hoop. Not to mention before the season, Capel even said Newell had the tools to be the best defender on the team. Had he played his true position and been able to get comfortable, he would have been a better more consistent performer than Pledger. He wouldn't have scored 38 in one game like Pledger, but as we all know the season is about more than just one game.

 

[WTSooner]

The funny thing about Newell and defense, regardless of potential, is that IMO, he was the worst defender on the team last year. And I mean that in regards to every aspect of defense. For having such quick feet, he got blown buy more than any OU guard I can remember since Bobby Maze. Intensity doesn't translate to good defense when your fundementals are terrible.

As for playing out of position on offense, well, maybe. The funny thing is, when he was signed, everybody said he'd be a perfect combo guard, or he'd be a guy that could make the switch to pg. I personally don't see him having the skill set to be anything more than an average sg in the Big 12, and that will take some work. He isn't a shooter. He doesn't have the size that most Big 12 SG's have. He isn't particularly skilled on offense, though he is athletic. I just don't see what some of you see in the kid.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The funny thing about Newell and defense, regardless of potential, is that IMO, he was the worst defender on the team last year. And I mean that in regards to every aspect of defense. For having such quick feet, he got blown buy more than any OU guard I can remember since Bobby Maze. Intensity doesn't translate to good defense when your fundementals are terrible.

As for playing out of position on offense, well, maybe. The funny thing is, when he was signed, everybody said he'd be a perfect combo guard, or he'd be a guy that could make the switch to pg. I personally don't see him having the skill set to be anything more than an average sg in the Big 12, and that will take some work. He isn't a shooter. He doesn't have the size that most Big 12 SG's have. He isn't particularly skilled on offense, though he is athletic. I just don't see what some of you see in the kid.

I agree with the bolded part and want to add that if he could have gotten just decent coaching, he would have performed much better. I will also add the fact he was playing out of position as a PG in one of the best basketball conferences took it's toll on his mind and confidence.

He played a lot down the stretch of the KU game and even though the game was far over at that point he played pretty well against KU's athletes.

With proper coaching his defense will be much better and his offense will come along because he can take the defender 1-on-1 to the rack.

We've watched Pledger for 2 years now and have seen very little improvement from year 1 to 2. Still very streaky on offense and if he's not hitting shots he plays zero defense and does very little on offense. When he's not hitting shots, it's like we are playing 5 on 4 and we are at a big disadvantage. Maybe Kruger can get him to play when not hitting shots, but he still has to learn how to play defense.

 

[garyeb2]

The funny thing about Newell and defense, regardless of potential, is that IMO, he was the worst defender on the team last year. And I mean that in regards to every aspect of defense. For having such quick feet, he got blown buy more than any OU guard I can remember since Bobby Maze. Intensity doesn't translate to good defense when your fundementals are terrible.

As for playing out of position on offense, well, maybe. The funny thing is, when he was signed, everybody said he'd be a perfect combo guard, or he'd be a guy that could make the switch to pg. I personally don't see him having the skill set to be anything more than an average sg in the Big 12, and that will take some work. He isn't a shooter. He doesn't have the size that most Big 12 SG's have. He isn't particularly skilled on offense, though he is athletic. I just don't see what some of you see in the kid.

You are right from the perspective that you are taking. But, from my view. He did start the first 3 games or so. But, he was so erradic that Capel had to play Blair. He had no coaching. Capel's staff had deserted him and he was on the way out. He did average 30 at a good program in HS. But, that really isn't my point. I've seen the Blair, Pledger, and Fitz movie. It is a horror show and ends badly. So yes, my opinions are probably jaded by alittle wishfull thinking. If Grooms, Newell, and Arent can not come in and put those three on the bench, it is going to be another long ugly season. So, it isn't so much about what Newell has shown that he is. But, moreso what Pledger has shown that he isn't. I think that it was season before last that Kruger beat BYU on the road, Arizona at home, and got to the tourney on the back of a 6' 0" shooting guard named Wink Adams. So, he is big enough for Kruger.

 

[sharp1]

So Pledger didn't play out of position? He did start at the point and we were undefeated. prior to going to maui. pledger wasn't removed from the point because he didn't play well enough...it was because they needed his scoring. Also the funny thing "booger" if Newell didn't get any coaching...neither did Pledger. The bottom line is this, none of these kids has scratched there potential...also coach must see something in Pledger...he didn't bring another Sg.

 

[SoonerWarVet]

Romero Osby and Calvin Newell. I know everyone is excited about Osby, and he will probably be the pre-season newcomer of the year unless Chris Allen gets it for ISU.

But I think these guys represent a pretty big toughness and athletic upgrade.

I could be 100% wrong, but I think switching Calvin to full-time shooting guard (where he was a 30ppg scorer in high school) instead of making him a point guard will produce a totally different player.

I think he is tougher, quicker, and more athletic than Pledger, and that Pledger is more suited to be a scoring/shooting option off the bench.

What do you guys think? Am I overhyping Calvin's ability? Understimating Pledgers ability?

PG: Sam Grooms
SG: Calvin Newell
SF: Cameron Clark
PF: Andrew Fitz
PF: Romero Osby

Love it...

No. I agree with you, which is a rarity! LOL I have said before many times, that is how I feel the lineup should be!!

 

[WTSooner]

You are right from the perspective that you are taking. But, from my view. He did start the first 3 games or so. But, he was so erradic that Capel had to play Blair. He had no coaching. Capel's staff had deserted him and he was on the way out. He did average 30 at a good program in HS. But, that really isn't my point. I've seen the Blair, Pledger, and Fitz movie. It is a horror show and ends badly. So yes, my opinions are probably jaded by alittle wishfull thinking. If Grooms, Newell, and Arent can not come in and put those three on the bench, it is going to be another long ugly season. So, it isn't so much about what Newell has shown that he is. But, moreso what Pledger has shown that he isn't. I think that it was season before last that Kruger beat BYU on the road, Arizona at home, and got to the tourney on the back of a 6' 0" shooting guard named Wink Adams. So, he is big enough for Kruger.

So why does Newell get the benefit of having "no coaching", but you don't give the same disclaimer to Pledger/Fitz/Blair? They will ALL improve, IMO, and Fitz and Pledger were the two highest rated (out of HS) of those 4.

 

[Soonerman]

So why does Newell get the benefit of having "no coaching", but you don't give the same disclaimer to Pledger/Fitz/Blair? They will ALL improve, IMO, and Fitz and Pledger were the two highest rated (out of HS) of those 4.

+1

 

[garyeb2]

So why does Newell get the benefit of having "no coaching", but you don't give the same disclaimer to Pledger/Fitz/Blair? They will ALL improve, IMO, and Fitz and Pledger were the two highest rated (out of HS) of those 4.

Well, for the same reason that it would fair to give Neal and Clark the benifit of the doubt. They were true freshmen and players generally show their biggest jump in improvement between their fresh/soph years. And yes, everyone of the guys will benifit from the coaching change. Kruger can flat out coach and by all accounts he has a really fine group of assistants. Everything from scouting to game planning to more productive practices and game day bench coaching will help the kids be more productive. Capel's operation looked like street ball and I could never pick off that he had so much as an in-bounds play. But, the things that Kruger can not do is make them taller,quicker, and more athletic. And those are the things that got them beat last season.

 

[WTSooner]

But, the things that Kruger can not do is make them taller,quicker, and more athletic. And those are the things that got them beat last season.

No. Piss poor coaching is what got us beat last year. You cannot call the players we have on our roster "mid major" talent when they are top 50 kids (Fitz). Sure, he isn't big, and he isn't fast. So? He needs to be coached up properly, and he needs to be put in a certain position to help the team, but a good coach should be able to do that.

Am I saying we have the talent to win the Big 12, or make a Final Four run? Absolutely not. But you will not convince me that we do not have the talent to finish 4th in the Big 12, and get to the Dance. And really, that should be our goal for the next few years. Get that consistency back. We have 4-5 top 125 prospects on our roster (Cam, Osby, Fitz, Pledger). Three of those guys were top 75 I think. We have some nice role players. Most years, I'd say we should be Dancing. Next year, we have to give the team and staff a little time. They'll enter the season with very little time working out together. I just want to see marked improvement next year, though I'm certainly not writing off a trip to the NCAA's.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

i just still think its funny that people assume capel didn't coach or try to coach these kids. Its laughable to say the least.

 

[WTSooner]

i just still think its funny that people assume capel didn't coach or try to coach these kids. Its laughable to say the least.

Oh, he tried.

I still think it's funny that so many kids either under-performed expectations, or didn't make any marked improvements, and people still think Capel was a solid coach. Never in my life have I seen more top 125 kids under-perform on a single team, for a single coach, in such a short period of time. NEVER!

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Oh, he tried.

I still think it's funny that so many kids either under-performed expectations, or didn't make any marked improvements, and people still think Capel was a solid coach. Never in my life have I seen more top 125 kids under-perform on a single team, for a single coach, in such a short period of time. NEVER!

I definitely saw improvement last year. It was hard not to see improvement.
Can you list the top 125 kids that underperformed?

 

[WTSooner]

Can you list the top 125 kids that underperformed?

I could argue all but Blake Griffin did, to some degree.

Now, that list includes a bunch of guys that didn't stick around very long, but still, don't top 100 guys have 1st year expectations as well? I believe Duke, on a stacked team, was still able to play the 150 ranked frosh from the year before for 10 minutes a game.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I really don't know which players were 125 recruits. CAn you list them?

 

[WTSooner]

I really don't know which players were 125 recruits. CAn you list them?

Keith Clark
Tony Crocker
Bobby Maze
Tony Neysmith
Willie Warren
Ray Willis
Tiny Gallon/TMG
Fitz
Cam Clark
Taylor Griffin 141

I think that covers all the guys that played for Capel. Well, Austin Johnson too, but injuries were a big part of his career.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Keith Clarkgrades right?
Tony CrockerObviously was a great player
Bobby Mazedidn't underperform
Tony Neysmithclearly a miss
Willie Warrendidn't underperform his freshman year. injuries.
Ray Willismiss
Tiny Gallon/TMGthey didn't underperform
Fitzhasn't underperformed
Cam Clarkfreshman. hasn't underperformed
Taylor Griffin 141didn't underperform

I think that covers all the guys that played for Capel. Well, Austin Johnson too, but injuries were a big part of his career.

all my opinion of course. most of those guys you listed did pretty well. problems with character on some of them yes but i don't think they underperformed

 

[Sawyer]

I have no idea if this is the case with Capel, but I know Quin has a similar reputation with Mizzou fans (landed plenty of talent/potential and generally sucked at coaching them up). And yet, he's been hired by three different NBA teams now, specifically for his ability to develop young players.

Sometimes it's not the coaching that's lacking. Often it's that the coach can't identify guys who are capable of being coached. Again, no clue if that was Capel's problem, but none of these guys get to where they are without knowing the game inside and out. My uneducated outsider's guess is that Capel's biggest issue was in building a roster with guys who had the athletic ability, basketball skill and mental makeup to actually improve. Strengths in one or two of those categories can get a guy on a top 150 list, but lacking all three he probably won't ever be much of a Big 12 player.

 

[garyeb2]

No. Piss poor coaching is what got us beat last year. You cannot call the players we have on our roster "mid major" talent when they are top 50 kids (Fitz). Sure, he isn't big, and he isn't fast. So? He needs to be coached up properly, and he needs to be put in a certain position to help the team, but a good coach should be able to do that.

Am I saying we have the talent to win the Big 12, or make a Final Four run? Absolutely not. But you will not convince me that we do not have the talent to finish 4th in the Big 12, and get to the Dance. And really, that should be our goal for the next few years. Get that consistency back. We have 4-5 top 125 prospects on our roster (Cam, Osby, Fitz, Pledger). Three of those guys were top 75 I think. We have some nice role players. Most years, I'd say we should be Dancing. Next year, we have to give the team and staff a little time. They'll enter the season with very little time working out together. I just want to see marked improvement next year, though I'm certainly not writing off a trip to the NCAA's.

OU lost 15 games by double digits last season. 15!!! That isn't coaching. The other teams had better players. Much better players. I said in a post a couple weeks back that I thought the over and under number for wins next season is 19. That marked improvement will come from Coach Kruger and his staff and the contributions Osby, Grooms, and Arent make. That, along with Clark. And have little or nothing to do with some magical transformation of Blair,Pledger, and Fitz. Hanging your arguement on what some service said about a player when he was in high school 3 years ago is grasping at straws. Remember, I have seen these guys play and the results they got. Didn't you?