Every time I think about next year, two names pop into my head.

[WTSooner]

Hanging your arguement on what some service said about a player when he was in high school 3 years ago is grasping at straws.

Agree to disagree.

I think grasping at straws is trying to say that the recruiting services, that are generally pretty solid in hoops, missed on SO MANY OU recruits in a short period of time. One kid? Sure, maybe the recruiting guys missed. Two guys? Maybe they missed twice. Several? Sorry, I'ma go with coaching, or lack there of.

 

[WTSooner]

all my opinion of course. most of those guys you listed did pretty well. problems with character on some of them yes but i don't think they underperformed

I guess I just disagree.

I could go through player by player and say why, but it won't change your mind, so I won't waste either of our time.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I guess I just disagree.

I could go through player by player and say why, but it won't change your mind, so I won't waste either of our time.

i'm not sure what you are expecting out of a top 125 player. Blake griffin?

 

[sperry]

I have no idea if this is the case with Capel, but I know Quin has a similar reputation with Mizzou fans (landed plenty of talent/potential and generally sucked at coaching them up). And yet, he's been hired by three different NBA teams now, specifically for his ability to develop young players.

Sometimes it's not the coaching that's lacking. Often it's that the coach can't identify guys who are capable of being coached. Again, no clue if that was Capel's problem, but none of these guys get to where they are without knowing the game inside and out. My uneducated outsider's guess is that Capel's biggest issue was in building a roster with guys who had the athletic ability, basketball skill and mental makeup to actually improve. Strengths in one or two of those categories can get a guy on a top 150 list, but lacking all three he probably won't ever be much of a Big 12 player.

I agree with this. The idea that Capel couldn't coach is absurd. I think he recruited some questionable guys who's poor attitude plus disciplinary problems sunk him.



The guys Capel had who had strong work ethics and were high character guys improved immensely and had great careers under Capel. Unfortunately, he brought in too many jokers who didn't fit that bill.

 

[stoops4pres]

I could argue all but Blake Griffin did, to some degree.

You certainly have a point that Capel brought in more players that underperformed than he should have.

However, I disagree with the extent you are making it out to be. For instance, it's hard to argue that Crocker, Taylor Griffin, and Austin Johnson all "underperformed". I think you are perhaps putting too much stock in a player that is ranked in the Top 125. Not every player within that range is going to turn out to be an All-American, after all.

 

[WTSooner]

You certainly have a point that Capel brought in more players that underperformed than he should have.

However, I disagree with the extent you are making it out to be. For instance, it's hard to argue that Crocker, Taylor Griffin, and Austin Johnson all "underperformed". I think you are perhaps putting too much stock in a player that is ranked in the Top 125. Not every player within that range is going to turn out to be an All-American, after all.

Austin underperformed, but I chalk his up to injury. I think if healthy, he'd have been a helluva player.

Griffin didn't do squat until about half way through his senior season. Go back and look at his stats.....nothing even "average" about him until his senior year. And this from a kid that looked VERY solid as a true frosh. Remember the @OSU game? I don't knock Taylor as much as I knock Capel for not using him right. Wasn't until they decided to put him at the high post, and Blake in the post, that he performed up to his abilities. Too much talk about moving him to the 3, or letting him play more on the perimeter, earlier in his career.

And Crocker is a weird case. He certainly had a VERY solid career, no doubt. But during his frosh/soph years, had I asked you, would you not have expected more out of him as a jr/sr then what he did? It's like he hit a wall. And maybe that was just where his talent level was, hard to say, but I know a lot of regular posters/fans expected a bit more from the older Crocker. For a four year starter, I just thought his last two years would have been a bit better.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Big difference b/t thinking a player underperformed for your expectiations and him underperforming for a top 125 player

 

[stoops4pres]

Austin underperformed, but I chalk his up to injury. I think if healthy, he'd have been a helluva player.

Griffin didn't do squat until about half way through his senior season. Go back and look at his stats.....nothing even "average" about him until his senior year. And this from a kid that looked VERY solid as a true frosh. Remember the @OSU game? I don't knock Taylor as much as I knock Capel for not using him right. Wasn't until they decided to put him at the high post, and Blake in the post, that he performed up to his abilities. Too much talk about moving him to the 3, or letting him play more on the perimeter, earlier in his career.

And Crocker is a weird case. He certainly had a VERY solid career, no doubt. But during his frosh/soph years, had I asked you, would you not have expected more out of him as a jr/sr then what he did? It's like he hit a wall. And maybe that was just where his talent level was, hard to say, but I know a lot of regular posters/fans expected a bit more from the older Crocker. For a four year starter, I just thought his last two years would have been a bit better.

Taylor played behind some very good big men in the Big 12. Bookout, Gray, Longar, and obviously Blake. He was never expected to flourish as a college basketball player anyways.

Same goes to Austin and Crocker... Both were never projected to be All-American type players.

If you want to nitpick and place unreasonable expectations on every recruit that was placed in the Top 125, sure you could say they underperformed. But in the grand scheme of things, considering how each of their college careers played out, that's a hard argument to make. JMO.

 

[scrybe]

Taylor played behind some very good big men in the Big 12. Bookout, Gray, Longar, and obviously Blake. He was never expected to flourish as a college basketball player anyways.

Same goes to Austin and Crocker... Both were never projected to be All-American type players.

If you want to nitpick and place unreasonable expectations on every recruit that was placed in the Top 125, sure you could say they underperformed. But in the grand scheme of things, considering how each of their college careers played out, that's a hard argument to make. JMO.

An opinion shared by myself – and I suspect, many others.

 

[DenverSooner]

i'm not sure what you are expecting out of a top 125 player. Blake griffin?

I don't think most people had any set expectations for any of these kids but rather suspected much more of the team.

With respect to next season and improvement, I think all of the guys will show improvement and I think the team will show significant improvement. It may not show up in the win loss record but I don't think OU will losing by double digits on a regular basis.

What I hope to see is improvement from Fitzgerald on the boards and defensive end. Fitzgerald worked very hard las year to improve and I think he will improve again this year.

I hope to see Washington slightly increase his rebounding and scoring to become a nice support player. Washington averaged 3.1 boards and 2.5 points in just under 12 minutes a game. If you add a couple of points and a board those are strong numbers for a role player. 4.1 boards and 4.5 points in 12 minuts projects to over 13 boards and 15 points a game. Numbers don't typically project out like that but 4.1 boards and 4.5 points off the bench would be a huge contribution from a role player.

I think Carl Blair will make better decisions and reduce his turn overs (whether he starts or comes off the bench). I hope to see improved shooting percentages from Pledger as well as a better effort on the defensive end of the floor. I thnk Clark has the potential to improve his scoring, decision making and consistency.

Even with that improvement, I do not have high expectations for OU next season. I think OU will have a difficult time making the NCAA Tournament.

 

[WTSooner]

If you want to nitpick and place unreasonable expectations on every recruit that was placed in the Top 125, sure you could say they underperformed. But in the grand scheme of things, considering how each of their college careers played out, that's a hard argument to make. JMO.

Let me re-phrase my argument then. I think under a different (better) coach, Crocker/TG/AJ and several others all would have been better players when they left OU.

 

[stoops4pres]

Let me re-phrase my argument then. I think under a different (better) coach, Crocker/TG/AJ and several others all would have been better players when they left OU.

Fair enough. I actually thought player development was one of the better traits of Capel and his staff. Agree to disagree.

 

[perryj74]

Let me re-phrase my argument then. I think under a different (better) coach, Crocker/TG/AJ and several others all would have been better players when they left OU.

I'm an on the fence guy when it comes to Jeff Capel. He obviously had his short comings. Do you not think that these guys were better players though when they left OU compared to what they were when Capel arrived? Hell TG got a cup of coffee in the NBA.

Now if you want to bash Capel on his inability to judge character and keep borderline attitude kids on campus them I'm all for it but the three guys you mentioned were better players after their years spent under Capel. This is NOT an indictment on Sampson. Who knows they each may have progressed at the same or higher level under him. I'm not sure what you expected out of these kids. I'd say each of them came pretty close to maximizing their potential in their time at OU.

 

[stoops4pres]

I'm an on the fence guy when it comes to Jeff Capel. He obviously had his short comings. Do you not think that these guys were better players though when they left OU compared to what they were when Capel arrived? Hell TG got a cup of coffee in the NBA.

Now if you want to bash Capel on his inability to judge character and keep borderline attitude kids on campus them I'm all for it but the three guys you mentioned were better players after their years spent under Capel.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm an on the fence guy when it comes to Jeff Capel. He obviously had his short comings. Do you not think that these guys were better players though when they left OU compared to what they were when Capel arrived? Hell TG got a cup of coffee in the NBA.

Now if you want to bash Capel on his inability to judge character and keep borderline attitude kids on campus them I'm all for it but the three guys you mentioned were better players after their years spent under Capel. This is NOT an indictment on Sampson. Who knows they each may have progressed at the same or higher level under him. I'm not sure what you expected out of these kids. I'd say each of them came pretty close to maximizing their potential in their time at OU.

TG was always athletic and truthfully, his offensive game improved a miniscule amount from his frosh year to his senior year. He was never a deep threat as we had hoped he could be but was a beast on the boards.

I'll also add I was a much better basketball player after 9th grade than after 7th grade. Some of that could have been due to coaching at basketball camps, but most of it was because of my own hard work and physical development. Most athletes get better every year until they reach their ceiling and some have higher ceilings than others based on athletic ability and intelligence.