MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

[skyvue]

I’ve laid out the rosters between what Lon inherited and Porter inherited and it isn’t all that close in terms of talent comparison. Capel left more talent in the cupboard than Lon did. Wichita thinks providing facts is “protecting Porter Moser.”

I get your point, but I'm not sure I agree with the wording: Lon left plenty of talent, but a few of those players transferred after Lon retired. The same may also be true of Capel, but I can't rely on my memory in his case, and I'm too lazy to go look it up.

Here's who was on the roster when Lon retired: Garang, Gibson, Harkless, Harmon, Hill, Issanza, Iwuakor, Kuath, Manek, Williams--with CJ Noland (a top 100 recruit) and Cortes signed.

That wasn't an empty cupboard. Is Moser to blame that they left? Tough call, but some incoming coaches manage to retain more talent than others. Do we blame a coach who loses a bunch of guys or just praise the ones who manage to retain more than they lose? Probably the latter, but saying Lon left an cupboard isn't accurate, either.

 

[Eielson]

Here's who was on the roster when Lon retired: Garang, Gibson, Harkless, Harmon, Hill, Issanza, Iwuakor, Kuath, Manek, Williams--with CJ Noland (a top 100 recruit) and Cortes signed.

That wasn't an empty cupboard.

Did you just say the cupboard wasn't empty and then mention people like Big Rick, Iwuakor, and Garang as evidence? Yikes.

 

[skyvue]

Did you just say the cupboard wasn't empty and then mention people like Big Rick, Iwuakor, and Garang as evidence? Yikes.

Did you just single out those three players and ignore the nine who supported my point?

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Did you just single out those three players and ignore the nine who supported my point?

To be fair....the three guys who started the most games coming back (the stayed) averaged a combined 21 ppg.

If Manek and Harmon would have stayed we would have been much better. It is what it is.

I think PM did a decent job with what he had the first year. This year? OOOOOF

Next year we need to see some improvement.

 

[Eielson]

Did you just single out those three players and ignore the nine who supported my point?

You think nine players you listed support your stance? That's comical. Lon inherited several talented players including a more talented roster that included guys like Cam Clark and Romero Osby. Several other guys that could play meaningful minutes like Pledger, Fitzgerald, and Grooms. That doesn't mean I'm going to come on here pretending he had a strong roster and citing CJ Washington and Barry Honore as proof. The roster was severely lacking even if he inherited a handful of guys who had a pulse and could play P5 ball.

 

[skyvue]

To be fair....the three guys who started the most games coming back (the stayed) averaged a combined 21 ppg.

To be fair....Hill was a freshman who averaged 4 points in limited action. Harkless and Gibson combined for 17 ppg that season. The next season, the three of them combined for 32 ppg.

We'll never know what might have happened in their third season together because two of them transferred out after a year of playing for Moser (and the third also left with a year of eligibility).

 

[WaymanFan]

Both Coach Capel and Coach Moser inherited solid rosters IF they could keep the core players / prize recruits together. Since neither could, both did a solid job of just producing winning records in their first season. Coach Kruger inherited "building blocks" which he was able to coach to an NCAA Tournament berth in Year 2 - but inherited the least amount of Year 1 talent altogether. Part of that was because Coach Capel was the only OU head coach in recent memory to have a losing record in his last season.

Coach Sampson clearly inherited the most talent, including a player (Ryan Minor) who would end up as Big 8 POY in the coach's first season. Coach Tubbs, conversely, clearly inherited the least amount of talent. Coach Bliss left him only one young building block (Chicky Barnett) - but Tubbs proved to be the real deal in just his second year as head coach.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

To be fair....Hill was a freshman who averaged 4 points in limited action. Harkless and Gibson combined for 17 ppg that season. The next season, the three of them combined for 32 ppg.

We'll never know what might have happened in their third season together because two of them transferred out after a year of playing for Moser (and the third also left with a year of eligibility).

True...but let's stop short of saying PM was left with a really good roster. He wasn't. And you could say that their success the next year had a lot to do with Moser and his system.

As far as transferring out we could blame PM because it could be they didn't want to play for him or it could be any number of reasons. My point wasn't to really defend PM. My point was to point out that people implying he was left with some really good roster wasn't fact, it was very debatable.

This year was less debatable. The team was very "meh" at times and decent in spurts.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Both Coach Capel and Coach Moser inherited solid rosters IF they could keep the core players / prize recruits together. Since neither could, both did a solid job of just producing winning records in their first season. Coach Kruger inherited "building blocks" which he was able to coach to an NCAA Tournament berth in Year 2 - but inherited the least amount of Year 1 talent altogether. Part of that was because Coach Capel was the only OU head coach in recent memory to have a losing record in his last season.

Coach Sampson clearly inherited the most talent, including a player (Ryan Minor) who would end up as Big 8 POY in the coach's first season. Coach Tubbs, conversely, clearly inherited the least amount of talent. Coach Bliss left him only one young building block (Chicky Barnett) - but Tubbs proved to be the real deal in just his second year as head coach.

Tubbs was hands down my favorite OU coach in my life time. He was fun, had a very fun style of play and was ALWAYS full of laughs.

 

[WichitaSooner]

True...but let's stop short of saying PM was left with a really good roster. He wasn't. And you could say that their success the next year had a lot to do with Moser and his system.

As far as transferring out we could blame PM because it could be they didn't want to play for him or it could be any number of reasons. My point wasn't to really defend PM. My point was to point out that people implying he was left with some really good roster wasn't fact, it was very debatable.

This year was less debatable. The team was very "meh" at times and decent in spurts.

I absolutely agree he didn’t inherit a really good roster, and I don’t think I have ever said did. But he inherited a much better situation than a lot of coaches have over the last three seasons. There have been teams left with only one or two guys, so having three starters/key players back from a Round of 32 team isn’t a nightmare.

And the other thing some people seem to gloss over in comparing him to Lon is the overall state of the program. When Lon was hired, our team was dysfunctional, we had received sanctions, and Capel has alienated the fan base with his attitude. I recall that the consensus in the college basketball community was that it was a huge rebuild on and off the court, and that it would likely take years to get back to the tourney. And he didn’t have the portal available to immediately restock the roster. When Moser was hired, a great structure was in place and there was no offcourt drama or anger from the fans.

Moser’s first year was not a complete disaster. That year, we legitimately were very close to making it. What frustrated me that season was that he never got a handle on the same two issues that cost us over and over: turnovers and horrible late-game execution. We were very sloppy and careless despite having lots of very experienced guards.

Taking a significant step back last year was a massing failure and inexcusable in my eyes. We’ve been incredibly healthy and had almost no adversity off the court, and we had a lot of very experienced players. Almost none of them improved, many regressed, and we played a painful style. He also was remarkably slow to adjust or try new lineups. We basically wasted a month of conference play by continuing to start Jacob, and Oweh sat on the bench till late January in favor of guys who weren’t offering anything. In two years, I’ve yet to see one area of the game where we excel or really established an identity. Kelvin immediately established defense and toughness. Tang came in and immediately showed that KSU was going to play fast and loose. Mizzou also established an identifiable system under a first-year guy. We seem to just be floundering. He talks about playing fast, but it hasn’t happened. He preaches defense, but we lag behind most teams in the conference. We shot the 3 ok, largely because of Grant in the noncon, but not nearly well enough for it to be a weapon. So going into year three, I still don’t know what our program is.

 

[Eielson]

There are quick fix guys, long fix guys, and then a few unicorns that are both. Moser was never going to be a quick-fix guy. A few of these guys like Beard and Adams got off to quicker starts and were crowned early as better hires, however it quickly blew up. Tang has been wonderful for KSU, but I suspect it won't last more than a couple years. He knows what he did in one year at KSU, and he's a mercenary, so he won't take long to pick up and move to an SEC school with deeper pockets.

I'm not guaranteeing Moser will be successful as a long-term guy, but that's what he was brought in to be, so that's the measuring stick we should use. Comparing his short-term results to guys like Beard and Adams wasn't a good idea, and continuing to repeat this cycle is short-sighted.

 

[Abe]

To reroute portal thread: John Bol, 7’2” ranked #23 in the country has decommitted from Florida and will re-open his recruitment!!

 

[CoachTalk]

To reroute portal thread: John Bol, 7’2” ranked #23 in the country has decommitted from Florida and will re-open his recruitment!!

No chance.

Agent shopping him to the highest bidder.

 

[CMSOONER]

Agent shopping him to the highest bidder.

100%

 

[steverocks35]

No chance.

Agent shopping him to the highest bidder.

Great, we're the Sacramento Kings of the NCAA

 

[61sooner]

Is Bol related to Minute Bol ex NBA player, son, nephew?

 

[steverocks35]

Is Bol related to Minute Bol ex NBA player, son, nephew?

No

 

[Seymore Cox]

There are quick fix guys, long fix guys, and then a few unicorns that are both. Moser was never going to be a quick-fix guy. A few of these guys like Beard and Adams got off to quicker starts and were crowned early as better hires, however it quickly blew up. Tang has been wonderful for KSU, but I suspect it won't last more than a couple years. He knows what he did in one year at KSU, and he's a mercenary, so he won't take long to pick up and move to an SEC school with deeper pockets.

I'm not guaranteeing Moser will be successful as a long-term guy, but that's what he was brought in to be, so that's the measuring stick we should use. Comparing his short-term results to guys like Beard and Adams wasn't a good idea, and continuing to repeat this cycle is short-sighted.

What are you talking about dude? There are no long term fixes. You have to have coaches who are versed in assembling a roster of talent year in and year out in the portal area. Then you have to be able to effectively coach that roster once you assemble it.

Moser can’t do either. Now he has openly complained about not having support on the NIL front and I agree with him on that. That’s what the KStates, TCU, and Texas Techs have been able to have that OU doesn’t.

 

[CoachTalk]

Great, we're the Sacramento Kings of the NCAA

Kings were the 3 seed this year?lol. Id take it

 

[WichitaSooner]

What are you talking about dude? There are no long term fixes. You have to have coaches who are versed in assembling a roster of talent year in and year out in the portal area. Then you have to be able to effectively coach that roster once you assemble it.

Moser can’t do either. Now he has openly complained about not having support on the NIL front and I agree with him on that. That’s what the KStates, TCU, and Texas Techs have been able to have that OU doesn’t.

Ah come on … I’m totally on board to wait for 2030 to be good. Be fair. It’s not as if there is some portal in which you can find players every year to transfer your roster. It takes decades, and you have to start recruiting kids when they are in junior high.

As an aside, I’ve yet to see any proof that KSU has a significant NIL advantage over us. For that matter, how do we know that about the others you name? Maybe their coaches just don’t complain about it. Or maybe they do and we just don’t hear about it since we don’t follow them as closely.