Next year's Starting Lineup

[stoops4pres]

How many freshmen PGs(especially ones that aren't ranked in the top 100 out of high school) do much of anything in their freshman debut? Even the top ranked pgs out of high school who were freshmen this season barely did anything.

This team is going to be extremely young next season, were losing key players, and 2 guys we are going to need to be the guys have been 2 inconsistent players throughout their careers.

Our guys will improve but so will a lot of other players on other teams in the big 12. W.V. and Texas return pretty much everyone. KU just turns water into wine every season. OSU returns the majority of their team. ISU has 2 solid players returning and Hoiberg is turning into a solid coach. Baylor will still have a talented team(don't know what they will do). K-St returns most of their team.

My thoughts are the same. I think some people are underestimating Osby's departure and the impact he had on the team this season.

And I hope Cam Clark can make the same ascension that Grooms made towards the end of the season, but I have my doubts. I think that leap is more of the exception as opposed to the rule.

I think we're a bubble team, perhaps at best. Would love to be wrong.

 

[Big Old Booger]

My thoughts are the same. I think some people are underestimating Osby's departure and the impact he had on the team this season.

And I hope Cam Clark can make the same ascension that Grooms made towards the end of the season, but I have my doubts. I think that leap is more of the exception as opposed to the rule.

I think we're a bubble team, perhaps at best. Would love to be wrong.

I definitely think we are a bubble team just like this year. My point is, if the 10/11 and 11/12 team can win 15 games, then next years team can win 4-5 more which puts us in the conversation for postseason play. The lineup next year will be more talented than either of those teams and players won't be playing out of position out of necessity like in 11/12.

 

[DenverSooner]

That is my point. And we STILL won a bunch of games. You don't think Woodard can top those numbers?

Let me put it another way. Aside from the 3 games or so when Grooms went off late, if you average what our pg play was for all other games, I'm guessing Woodard will be better than that next year, for the season.

I agree with this. For the most part OU got about 8 points a game from its pg position. I think Woodard can do that. What will be interesting is if he can handle the ball as well as Grooms and defend as well as Cousins. If he can, he will be an improvement.

 

[WTSooner]

We won a bunch of games because of Romero Osby.

Okay.

So if we get better pg play.
And better play at the 3 (Hield certainly will get better).
Better play from M'Baye (he will certainly get better).
Better defense.
And better shooting from Booker off the bench, then we got from Cousins/Cam this year.

Why can't we be close to what we were this year? We can afford to take a step back at Osby's spot, if we get better everywhere else. There are literally only three places we might not be as good at last year. Scoring from Ro's spot. Leadership that Ro provided. And a gunner from the wing like Pledger. Literally every other part of the team should be better.

 

[CoachTalk]

How many freshmen PGs(especially ones that aren't ranked in the top 100 out of high school) do much of anything in their freshman debut? Even the top ranked pgs out of high school who were freshmen this season barely did anything.

This team is going to be extremely young next season, were losing key players, and 2 guys we are going to need to be the guys have been 2 inconsistent players throughout their careers.

Our guys will improve but so will a lot of other players on other teams in the big 12. W.V. and Texas return pretty much everyone. KU just turns water into wine every season. OSU returns the majority of their team. ISU has 2 solid players returning and Hoiberg is turning into a solid coach. Baylor will still have a talented team(don't know what they will do). K-St returns most of their team.

RANKINGS DON'T MAKE OR BREAK A KID. He's not going to be a star. He'll be really solid.

 

[bgrch1350]

RANKINGS DON'T MAKE OR BREAK A KID. He's not going to be a star. He'll be really solid.

he most likely will be...but expecting that from him as a freshman is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[bgrch1350]

Okay.

So if we get better pg play.
And better play at the 3 (Hield certainly will get better).
Better play from M'Baye (he will certainly get better).
Better defense.
And better shooting from Booker off the bench, then we got from Cousins/Cam this year.

Why can't we be close to what we were this year? We can afford to take a step back at Osby's spot, if we get better everywhere else. There are literally only three places we might not be as good at last year. Scoring from Ro's spot. Leadership that Ro provided. And a gunner from the wing like Pledger. Literally every other part of the team should be better.

Thats a lot of IF's.
Lets go with what we know.
We lose our best ball handler and overall PG.
We lose our best shooter and best 3pt threat(and basically our only 3pt threat).
We lose our best rebounder, scorer, and player.
We lose a decent bench player.
We have 3 seniors returning that are very inconsistent.
All 3 seniors we do have returning don't quite know if they are guards, wings or post. All one does is shoot 3's and nothing else and he's horrible at them. Another seems to do his best work down low but he's only 6'6. Another plays the 5 but he thinks he's a 3, he needs to stick to 15 feet and in but he loves to shoot 3's even though he's horrible at them.
We have 3 guards returning that look like they need to make big improvements and will only be sophmores.
We have juco post players that haven't made a dent on the stat sheet in junior college.
We have a post player that is redshirting that only averaged 6mpg as a freshman and didn't play in all of those games thats going to be ask to play close to 20mpg after not only not playing much at Gonzaga but after sitting out a year as well.
We have 2 young guards that are not ranked in the ranking world but are suppose to make an immediate impact.

Its going to be a long season.

 

[AdaSooner]

My thoughts are the same. I think some people are underestimating Osby's departure and the impact he had on the team this season.
And I hope Cam Clark can make the same ascension that Grooms made towards the end of the season, but I have my doubts. I think that leap is more of the exception as opposed to the rule.

I think we're a bubble team, perhaps at best. Would love to be wrong.

Can you point me to the posts that underestimate Osby's departure and the impact he had this season?

On the contrary, nearly every post I've read where Romero is mentioned, speaks to how valuable he was to our success this year and how much he will be missed next season. I'd find it hard to believe that anyone on this board thinks otherwise. Losing the heart and soul of this year's team, our top scorer and rebounder, not to mention the best team leader our program has seen in years, will have a huge impact on our success going forward.

I think we all know that everyone on next year's team will have to step up their game to offset losing Roe as much as possible. Will Cam Clark be one of those players? I have no idea, that is entirely up to him. If he doesn't make the effort to improve during the off season, he'll end his career the same way it began. An athletic wing with a lot of ability who developed into a good role player, but never fulfilled his potential. I hope that doesn't happen, because we'll need him to have that breakout season we have all been waiting for since he came to OU.

It will be interesting to see how things turn out. Will our newbies be as good as some of us think? Is Woodard good enough to start at some point of the season? Will M'Baye come in determined to pick up where Roe left off as the team leader and scorer? Will our three freshmen guards work hard enough this summer to blister the nets next fall? Who will start in Osby's place. Will it be Spangler? How much help will we get from Hamilton and Bennett?

There are so many questions about next year's team right now, it's impossible to say with any degree of accuracy how good they're going to be.

 

[Darwin]

Its going to be a long season.

Put a number on that 13/18 or 14/18 I know those seasons, those are long seasons. Nothing on paper suggests that so what are you saying? And you base that on kids being no better than what they show their freshman year for their entire career.

 

[bgrch1350]

Put a number on that 13/18 or 14/18 I know those seasons, those are long seasons. Nothing on paper suggests that so what are you saying? And you base that on kids being no better than what they show their freshman year for their entire career.

I base that on what is returning and what is returning for other big 12 teams.

Its not about wins...its about who we beat and will we have a shot at making the ncaa tournament. I personally don't care about the NIT. No player or coach goes into a tournament hoping to make the NIT.

Its not about how many wins we get..you can pack the non conference with some crappy teams and increase our wins. The NCAA committee looks at who we beat, our sos, and so on...not our record.

 

[coolm]

why the glum outlook?

our guardplay will be much improved next season and that will be a solid boost for this team.

I see no reason to think we'll be anything other than BETTER next season.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I base that on what is returning and what is returning for other big 12 teams.

Its not about wins...its about who we beat and will we have a shot at making the ncaa tournament. I personally don't care about the NIT. No player or coach goes into a tournament hoping to make the NIT.

Its not about how many wins we get..you can pack the non conference with some crappy teams and increase our wins. The NCAA committee looks at who we beat, our sos, and so on...not our record.

I was going thru some old posts yesterday looking for something else and ran across a number of posts of yours at the end of the 10/11 season. In almost every post about the next years team you were convinced we had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament the following season if the coach were retained. I am not trying to turn this into another old coach vs current coach, but I only mention that to point out how you could be so confident in that roster and not this one when on paper this one isn't any worse based on what we know. At that time we really had no clue how good Osby was, all we had was comments from the coach and that's it. His stats at MSU were nothing to suggest he could be as good as he turned up to be, but you were convinced the next year we were going to the NCAA.

What we know about next years team is we have a much better 4/5 than we knew (Osby was still an unknown) that year. We have much better guards than we had that year, we have depth, and we have a better coaching staff (these asst coaches are light years better than the guys we had on staff back then).

 

[OUsky]

I was going thru some old posts yesterday looking for something else and ran across a number of posts of yours at the end of the 10/11 season. In almost every post about the next years team you were convinced we had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament the following season if the coach were retained. I am not trying to turn this into another old coach vs current coach, but I only mention that to point out how you could be so confident in that roster and not this one when on paper this one isn't any worse based on what we know. At that time we really had no clue how good Osby was, all we had was comments from the coach and that's it. His stats at MSU were nothing to suggest he could be as good as he turned up to be, but you were convinced the next year we were going to the NCAA.

What we know about next years team is we have a much better 4/5 than we knew (Osby was still an unknown) that year. We have much better guards than we had that year, we have depth, and we have a better coaching staff (these asst coaches are light years better than the guys we had on staff back then).

From the #1 sunshine pumper on this board to the #1 Hater in 2 years... amazing.

 

[Boomer-D]

I know we lose Osby and some solid seniors, but so do most the teams we play.

What they lose-
KU=their starting 5!
KSU= Their best player-McGruder and best post.
OSU= The glue to their team and BIG12 player of the year-Smart, Jurck
ISU= All their guards and top shooters
Baylor= Their leader and best player-Jackson, maybe Austin if he bolts

We at least return 5 guys that played major minutes and started a lot.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I know we lose Osby and some solid seniors, but so do most the teams we play.

What they lose-
KU=their starting 5!
KSU= Their best player-McGruder and best post.
OSU= The glue to their team and BIG12 player of the year-Smart, Jurck
ISU= All their guards and top shooters
Baylor= Their leader and best player-Jackson, maybe Austin if he bolts

We at least return 5 guys that played major minutes and started a lot.

You didn't mention WV, but they are losing the big Turkish dude and a few others as well as Huggie Bear told 5 of his underclassmen he's not renewing their scholarship. So, if anyone thinks they are going to be very good next year, they are crazy. At best he's 2 years away from competing in this league because we all know the juco route is nothing like it used to be when he built Cincy into something.

 

[bgrch1350]

I was going thru some old posts yesterday looking for something else and ran across a number of posts of yours at the end of the 10/11 season. In almost every post about the next years team you were convinced we had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament the following season if the coach were retained. I am not trying to turn this into another old coach vs current coach, but I only mention that to point out how you could be so confident in that roster and not this one when on paper this one isn't any worse based on what we know. At that time we really had no clue how good Osby was, all we had was comments from the coach and that's it. His stats at MSU were nothing to suggest he could be as good as he turned up to be, but you were convinced the next year we were going to the NCAA.

What we know about next years team is we have a much better 4/5 than we knew (Osby was still an unknown) that year. We have much better guards than we had that year, we have depth, and we have a better coaching staff (these asst coaches are light years better than the guys we had on staff back then).

Yes...Last year was a huge disappointment in my eyes. But don't forget...that we had a solid chance of landing Jurick and Guerrero. Newell most likely wouldn't have transferred. Some say that Grooms was coming here if Capel was still here? IDK.

So yeah...if we would have retained Capel...I believe we would have made it to the tournament. I'll stand by that. I thinked last years team looked pretty good until Newell transferred.

 

[bgrch1350]

You didn't mention WV, but they are losing the big Turkish dude and a few others as well as Huggie Bear told 5 of his underclassmen he's not renewing their scholarship. So, if anyone thinks they are going to be very good next year, they are crazy. At best he's 2 years away from competing in this league because we all know the juco route is nothing like it used to be when he built Cincy into something.

W.V. is losing one starter...they will be good next year. They also have some good recruits coming in as well.

 

[treebranch]

Yes...Last year was a huge disappointment in my eyes. But don't forget...that we had a solid chance of landing Jurick and Guerrero. Newell most likely wouldn't have transferred. Some say that Grooms was coming here if Capel was still here? IDK.

So yeah...if we would have retained Capel...I believe we would have made it to the tournament. I'll stand by that. I thinked last years team looked pretty good until Newell transferred.

I've read a lot of this back and forth, and whatever. I have one question though. Why do you think so highly of Jeff Capel as a basketball coach?

 

[bgrch1350]

I've read a lot of this back and forth, and whatever. I have one question though. Why do you think so highly of Jeff Capel as a basketball coach?

I have never once stated that of Jeff Capel nor have I ever said that. That is what other people have said.

I've only stated that with a banged up Willie Warren and a bunch of freshmen...we weren't suppose to be that good. And then the following year, with the departure of Warren, TMG, Gallon we were going to be not that good.

Not saying he's a good coach...I'm just saying he took us to the 2nd round and the elite 8 and then crap happened. Kruger took us to 16 wins and then to the first round.

 

[DenverSooner]

OU returns five guys with significant starting experience in Cousins, Hornbeak, Hield, M'baye and Clark. OU also returns Spangler and Neal with D-1 experience and two Juco forwards including one that got to practice for a year against D-1 players. OU brings in Woodard and Booker.