<<<OU v. OSU All-Time (a comparison)>>>

[BigTime]

This is a head to head comparison looking at OU and OSU basketball. It was compiled using Soonersports.com, OkState.com, and Big12Sports.com. The point of this thread is to show just how biased the local media has been in favoring the Oklahoma State basketball program, and to educate both OU and OSU fans alike on how OU's program has a slight edge in tradition.
OU basketball vs. OSU basketball: a statistical analysis since the inception of the Big 8.

The Big 8, as we knew it, came into being for the 1958-59 season. The name "Big 8" wasn't officially adopted until the 1964 season. From 1958-59 through 1964, the conference had been known as the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association. Oklahoma State was actually in the Missouri Valley Conference from 1928-1958.

So, these statistics are from the 1958-59 season to the last completed season (07-08). The statistics were compiled using a variety of sources, including soonerstats.com, big12sports.com, and okstate.com.

Oklahoma State
Total win/loss record: 779-628, .554
NCAA tournament appearances: 15
Final 4 appearances: 2
Title game appearances: 0
NIT appearances: 5
Conference titles: 2 big 8 (1 shared), 1 big 12
Conference tournament titles: 2 big 8, 2 big 12

Oklahoma
Total win/loss record: 920-540, .630
NCAA tournament appearances: 23
Final 4 appearances: 2
Title game appearances: 1
NIT appearances: 7
Conference titles: 5 big 8, 1 big 12 (shared)
Conference tournament titles: 4 big 8, 3 big 12

Overall head to head since 58-59

Oklahoma 64, Oklahoma State 46

In the 51 seasons (including this year) since OSU joined the Big-8, OU has a better conference record 36 times, OSU 11, 4 the same.

Since the inception of the Big 12 conference, OSU has only finished ahead of OU in the conferences win/loss record one (1) time:
96-97 OU 9-7 OSU 7-9
97-98 OU 11-5 OSU 11-5
98-99 OU 11-5 OSU 10-6
99-00 OU 12-4 OSU 12-4
00-01 OU 12-4 OSU 10-6
01-02 OU 13-3 OSU 10-6
02-03 OU 12-4 OSU 10-6
03-04 OU 8-8 OSU 14-2
04-05 OU 12-4 OSU 11-5
05-06 OU 11-5 OSU 6-10
06-07 OU 6-10 OSU 6-10
07-08 OU 9-7 OSU 7-9
08-09 OU 13-3 OSU 9-7

So, you want to go back all-time? That is fine with me. All-Time Stats:

OU: All Time Record 1,468-936 (.611) OSU: 1452-1018 (.588).
126 Bedlam Wins 89
10 winning coaches 6
21 different All-Americans 17
22 Conference Championships 17
10/11 winning records against the Big 12 5/11
34 1000 point scorers 30
8 Oylmpic Appearences ?
40 NBA Draft Selections 32
26 NCAA appearences 23
32 Total Tournament appearences 31
157 100 point games 39
51 game home win streak 46
OU has spent more weeks in the AP Top 25 poll than OSU.
OU has had more winning seasons than OSU.
OU has a better all time home winning percentage than OSU.
OU has made it to 4 final fours (2 Championship games)

OSU (or Oklahoma A&M as it was called back then) has won two national championships ('45 and '46) in basketball. This is a stat that simply cannot be ignored, and really the main reason why the Cowboys are even in the ballpark with Oklahoma in terms of basketball program comparisons. I will not take anything away from their accomplishments but consider this:

1. These championships happened 62 and 63 years ago. Most of us on this board were not even born when the Cowboys won the championship. Before you bombard me with the 50's football championships, at least we have won one in the new millennium (2000), and, this is about basketball, not football.

2. The road to the winning the championship was a lot less meddlesome back in the old A&M days. The Aggies only had to win three (3) games to be crowned the champion unlike the grueling 6 games of the modern era. That is certainly not the Cowboy's fault, but should at least be mentioned. Four of OSU's six final fours were obtained via this three game system. Note: two of Oklahoma's 4 were also obtained this way. Eight of Oklahoma State's eleven Elite 8 appearances were accomplished by only having to win two games in the tournament! Note: 3 of OU's 8 Elite 8 appearances were won in this fashion.

3. The good old NIT was still a major player during this time. It was an era in which the NCAA was battling for dominance. While it is debatable which tournament ran supreme during these championships, one thing is for sure, not all the good teams were playing in the NCAA tournament. Could that of impacted OSU's two victories? Who knows? But again, worth mentioning.

4. All-American Bob Kurland was a game changing center for the pokes. There was no goal tending back then, so the big 7 footer could just sit back and guard the goal until the cows came home. It was certainly within the rules of the day, but it obviously gave the Cowboys a big advantage that they wouldn't have had a few years later (because of Kurland).

If OSU fans really want to use all of that success from the Iba days as the main basis of claiming superiority over Oklahoma (despite all the facts that I have presented in this comparison) then I think they might be living in the past just a tad! If I were them, then I would certainly want something more recent to hang my hat on in this debate.

 

[tommieharris91]

Compare wins in the NCAA tournament between the 2 schools.

 

[oSuJeff97]

How conveinient that your "All Time" results start in 1958, which drops three of OSU's Final Four appearances and its back-to-back national titles.

How about I show the results starting in 1991? Would that be fair to OU?

Point being, no matter what your rationalle, if you don't show ALL of the results, then couldn't you be accused of picking and choosing a time frame that puts your team in the best light?

 

[OULad]

How conveinient that your "All Time" results start in 1958, which drops three of OSU's Final Four appearances and its back-to-back national titles.

How about I show the results starting in 1991? Would that be fair to OU?

Point being, no matter what your rationalle, if you don't show ALL of the results, then couldn't you be accused of picking and choosing a time frame that puts your team in the best light?

He did list the all time stats. The 1958 is fair because that is when it became the Big 8.

 

[thebigabd]

He did list the all time stats. The 1958 is fair because that is when it became the Big 8.

Agreed.

 

[OUFtball]

When you look at the Big 12...only Kansas tops OU. I enjoyed reading the below story from OU's Kenny Mossman.

Tradition is defined by a lot of things ranging from championships to milestones and so on. But nothing so clearly defines tradition, a long-standing history of success, as wins and losses, especially those credited against peer institutions.

That brings us to this: among Big 12 Conference schools, only one holds a series lead over OU. That one is Kansas. The other 10 own losing marks again the Sooners.

The Jayhawks also are the only team to win the Big 12 Tournament more often than the three times it has been won by the Sooners.

The longest home court winning streak since the Big 12 was formed? That's the 37 by Oklahoma.

Sometimes tradition is measured by success against rivals. Oklahoma finished behind its in-state rival, Oklahoma State, just once in 12 years of Big 12 competition.

Want to take it national? OK. Over the last 27 seasons, Oklahoma has participated in post-season play 26 times. No program in America exceeds that figure.

Now let's be clear, there are schools in America with better basketball traditions than the one at Oklahoma. That's not the point I'm making here. Rather, the point is that OU has a basketball tradition, and a darned fine one; an under-appreciated one.

Why is it under-appreciated? That's a bit of a head-scratcher, but I suppose we have no choice but to recognize the shadow cast by Sooner football. It's easy to be distracted by a program of that stature.

Still, a distraction is just a momentary loss of focus. It cannot or should not lead to out-and-out ignorance.

The fact of the matter is that Oklahoma basketball has earned so much more. Tip your hat to Carolina, bow the knee to Kentucky, but when you're talking about basketball tradition don't forget the one that resides in Norman.

 

[oSuJeff97]

He did list the all time stats. The 1958 is fair because that is when it became the Big 8.

EDIT - never mind.

 

[Tundrasooner]

EDIT - never mind.

Your finally seeing the light.:OU-logo:

 

[oSuJeff97]

Your finally seeing the light.:OU-logo:

Just picking my battles, that's all.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Just picking my battles, that's all.

 

[OULad]

Just picking my battles, that's all.

Hey Jeff, you guys won two national titles which is great, but I hold them in less respect only because the NIT was arguably as big back then. OSU is a nice program, but its not any better than OU imo. You have to start the comparison somewhere, so 1958 would be considered closer to the modern era of basketball.

 

[HoHum]

Why does this even matter? Who cares?

I just don't get this comparing of history. Doesn't mean a thing to me. Some like OSU, some like OU, let's talk about the present.

 

[skyvue]

Why does this even matter? Who cares?

I just don't get this comparing of history. Doesn't mean a thing to me. Some like OSU, some like OU, let's talk about the present.

The present, as in OU's three-game winning streak over oswho? The fact that OU's won five of the last six meetings between the two clubs?

Okay, let's.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Hey Jeff, you guys won two national titles which is great, but I hold them in less respect only because the NIT was arguably as big back then.

Only to the East coast schools who were running it.

National championships are national championships.

OSU is a nice program, but its not any better than OU imo.

Nobody claims it is. A few posters on this site are just totally convinced that the local media thinks this with no evidence to back it up.

You have to start the comparison somewhere, so 1958 would be considered closer to the modern era of basketball.

Well, by that logic, you could pick any number of "milestones" in between 1958 and now... from the full integration of college basketball to the addition of the three-point line, to the expansion of the NCAA tournament to 64 teams, to the expansion to 65 teams , to the formation of the Big 12.

All of these different "milestones" are things that make comparisons more relevant to the two programs TODAY.

Heck, you could even look at things like since 1991, when Eddie Sutton took over at OSU to 1995, when Kelvin Sampson took over at OU.

Because I would say that OSU post 1991 and OU post 1995 are pretty good barometers to where the respective programs are TODAY.

The overarching point is that you can either look at the WHOLE picture, or pick and choose. There is no way getting around the fact that picking the latter adds some layer of subjectivity.

 

[skyvue]

The overarching point is that you can either look at the WHOLE picture, or pick and choose. There is no way getting around the fact that picking the latter adds some layer of subjectivity.

Okay, the whole picture it is. OU leads the head-to-head series by a wide margin, the Sooners have won more games overall than the aggies, and the Sooners have been better by a wide margin over the past quarter-century, which is all contemporary fans -- and certainly all a current recruit -- really cares about.

On the other hand, the aggies were really good in the 1940s, twice in a row winning what was then widely considered the second-best tourney in college basketball (an achievement that then required just three victories).

Of course, they were good in large part because they had a seven-foot stiff in the paint and goaltending had not yet been implemented, but hey, they won that second-rate tourney fair and square, and twice in a row at that.

Now, had the aggies been good ever since the 1940s, as the Sooners in football have been good consistently since the 1950s, then they'd have something to point to, but they haven't been. They were good into the 50s, but since then, nada, except when they brought in a disgraced coach, who'd just landed a real basketball school on probation, to lift them out of the mire for a few years.

The vast majority -- I don't now recall the exact figure, but it's well over two-thirds -- of oswho's head coaches had losing records when they left Stillwater. Oswho has really had just a couple of good coaches -- the aforementioned coach who's now left two schools in disgrace and Mr. Iba. That's not so many for a traditional basketball power, as so many aggies, despite Jeff's poor recall (or is it denial?), have assured us oswho is.

By contrast, 10 of OU's 12 head coaches (I'm counting Coach Capel in this stat) have finished above .500.

But why am I going on and on? It's all in the top post in this thread:

OU: All Time Record 1,468-936 (.611) OSU: 1452-1018 (.588).
124 Bedlam Wins 88
10 winning coaches 6
20 different All-Americans 17
22 Conference Championships 17
10/11 winning records against the Big 12 5/11
34 1000 point scorers 30
8 Oylmpic Appearences ?
40 NBA Draft Selections 32
25 NCAA appearences 22
32 Total Tournament appearences 31
157 100 point games 39
51 game home win streak 46
OU has spent more weeks in the AP Top 25 poll than OSU.
OU has had more winning seasons than OSU.
OU has a better all time home winning percentage than OSU.
OU has made it to 4 final fours (2 Championship games)

 

[HoHum]

The present, as in OU's three-game winning streak over oswho? The fact that OU's won five of the last six meetings between the two clubs?

Okay, let's.

Okay? Thanks. Still doesn't matter to me, doesn't make me think of OSU any less, or OU any more.

 

[Seymore Cox]

How conveinient that your "All Time" results start in 1958, which drops three of OSU's Final Four appearances and its back-to-back national titles.

How about I show the results starting in 1991? Would that be fair to OU?

Point being, no matter what your rationalle, if you don't show ALL of the results, then couldn't you be accused of picking and choosing a time frame that puts your team in the best light?

Man you're mom wasn't even born in 58. Who in the world wants to refer to something that happened in 58. If we're going to go by that, CCNY and NYU would be thought of as basketball powerhouses. Aggie Logic!

 

[BigTime]

"Why does it matter? Who cares?"

Because OU and OSU fans need to know.... :OU-logo:

 

[Seymore Cox]

"Why does it matter? Who cares?"

Because OU and OSU fans need to know.... :OU-logo:

It matters because when we say we are better than you now, you can't say OSU is the better program throughout history because history doesn't reflect that.


Way to get banned Truth. LOL.

 

[HoHum]

"Why does it matter? Who cares?"

Because OU and OSU fans need to know.... :OU-logo:

Need to know what?! That OU's won more games than OSU? What in the world does that matter? We're fans!!!

I'll just never get it, I don't think.