Slightly Off Topic

[bocabull]

Bama gets credit for winning 3 national titles and beating the big dogs. We had already beat Missouri and their band of 2-3 stars earlier that season. It was only a "big game" due to gimmicky college football rankings.

After our "big win" vs Mizzou 2007 we went and were demolished by West Virginia in the Fiesta and after our "big win" vs Texas Tech in 2008, we snuck into the title game to get doubled up by Florida (ahead of Texas who throughly beat us) and Texas Tech went and got stomped by Ole miss.

Wayman & Ada are right though. We aren't that talented. So were constantly overrated & suspect talent will always get exposed. We're a lot like Notre Dame actually except they play a much tougher schedule to get exposed more often.

 

[AdaSooner]

Well, looks like I opened a hornet's nest with my anti-Bob comments.

I knew before I made the post that any popularity I might have enjoyed over the years would disappear in a hurry when I went public with my honest opinion about Bob Stoops. Don't worry, I expected it, so I'm not the least bit upset by the response I received.

I have no idea who I would bring in to replace Bob if he left? The only thing I do know is that no one on our current staff would get the nod. Truth is, I don't want to see him leave. You see, Bob Stoops, the coach, is not the problem. It's that he surrounds himself with too many weak links, and then refuses to bring in someone better when it's obvious to most observers that he made a bad hire.

If you'll read my post again, you'll see that I didn't even come close to suggesting that Bob needs to go. It may surprise you to learn that if I was asked to name my top five football coaches, Bob would be on that list. What I'm saying is that he is not a good administrator when it comes to making tough decisions involving his staff. If that were true, Heupel wouldn't be calling the plays from the coaches box this season. When my wife, who knows almost nothing about football, thinks the play-calling is too predictable, you'd better believe the DC on the other team knows what to expect.

Come on, guys, OU hasn't played in a NC game since we lost to Florida by 10 five years ago. It will be six after this season. The year before that we lost to WVU in the Fiesta Bowl by 20. The previous year we were shocked by Boise State, also in the Fiesta Bowl. I still get sick to my stomach when I see a replay of the trick play Peterson used, or when a sports commentator reminds me about the pain and humiliation in losing to a team like BSU. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy when OU makes it to a bowl game. I truly do not expect my favorite team to play for a national title every year. What I'm saying is that if Bob continues to stay with subpar coaching talent, instead of admitting he made a mistake, we can kiss another legitimate shot at a NC goodbye. The nation's top recruits want to win a championship. It's not enough for the great ones to play for an also-ran. And, to be honest, that is what OU has been the past few years.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

What are we using Mack Brown's lines now? lol

Name a big game OU has won? Are we really going to call beating Missouri and their band of 2-3 stars a big game? Beating Okie State big? Texas Tech at home?

A big game is when you beat a legit top 15 program, that consistently has top 15 recruiting classes, when they are playing at a high level.

Um Missouri was a top 5 team for a conference championship. Wasn't Tech ranked 1 or two?

Was ND not a big game this year? It sure as hell was last year when we lost. Was texas not big the last 3 years? Was FSU and Miami not big games?

Let me guess, they weren't big b/c the teams turned out not to be as good as we thought originally....well you know damn well if we would have lost those games you would have considered them big games.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Well, looks like I opened a hornet's nest with my anti-Bob comments.

I knew before I made the post that any popularity I might have enjoyed over the years would disappear in a hurry when I went public with my honest opinion about Bob Stoops. Don't worry, I expected it, so I'm not the least bit upset by the response I received.

I have no idea who I would bring in to replace Bob if he left? The only thing I do know is that no one on our current staff would get the nod. Truth is, I don't want to see him leave. You see, Bob Stoops, the coach, is not the problem. It's that he surrounds himself with too many weak links, and then refuses to bring in someone better when it's obvious to most observers that he made a bad hire.

If you'll read my post again, you'll see that I didn't even come close to suggesting that Bob needs to go. It may surprise you to learn that if I was asked to name my top five football coaches, Bob would be on that list. What I'm saying is that he is not a good administrator when it comes to making tough decisions involving his staff. If that were true, Heupel wouldn't be calling the plays from the coaches box this season. When my wife, who knows almost nothing about football, thinks the play-calling is too predictable, you'd better believe the DC on the other team knows what to expect.

Come on, guys, OU hasn't played in a NC game since we lost to Florida by 10 five years ago. It will be six after this season. The year before that we lost to WVU in the Fiesta Bowl by 20. The previous year we were shocked by Boise State, also in the Fiesta Bowl. I still get sick to my stomach when I see a replay of the trick play Peterson used, or when a sports commentator reminds me about the pain and humiliation in losing to a team like BSU. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy when OU makes it to a bowl game. I truly do not expect my favorite team to play for a national title every year. What I'm saying is that if Bob continues to stay with subpar coaching talent, instead of admitting he made a mistake, we can kiss another legitimate shot at a NC goodbye. The nation's top recruits want to win a championship. It's not enough for the great ones to play for an also-ran. And, to be honest, that is what OU has been the past few years.

The only weak link right now that I see is JH as the play caller. I hope that that gets fixed but I highly doubt it. who knows though, bob surprised us by getting rid of his close friends the last two seasons.

 

[DenverSooner]

I knew before I made the post that any popularity I might have enjoyed over the years would disappear in a hurry when I went public with my honest opinion about Bob Stoops.

I disagree with your opinion but it has no impact on what I think of you.

 

[AdaSooner]

I disagree with your opinion but it has no impact on what I think of you.

I know that, Denver. I made that comment tongue in cheek. Every poster who responded to what I said has been a friend of mine for more than a decade. I wasn't offended in the least that you, Sky and WT disagreed with me. I already knew how you felt about Bob.

 

[WTSooner]

I know that, Denver. I made that comment tongue in cheek. Every poster who responded to what I said has been a friend of mine for more than a decade. I wasn't offended in the least that you, Sky and WT disagreed with me. I already knew how you felt about Bob.

Well, I'm definitely offended that you don't agree with me.

 

[WaymanFan]

Bingo! You can also add coaching to your list.

Face it, Bob Stoops lost his edge several years ago. He has not recruited well, coached well, or performed well in hiring assistants in a very long time. When the buddy system doesn't work he seems to be the last one to know. More correctly, it's likely he's too stubborn to admit he made a mistake.

If two or three loss seasons, a chance at a conference title and playing in an occasional NC makes you happy, Bob is your man. Just don't expect OU to win a national championship anytime soon. Sure, winning a NC is tough. Most schools would love to be in OU's shoes. But even in the years when OU has made it to the title game, when was the last time a Bob Stoops coached team played like it belonged?

I said several years ago that OU will never win another national title under Stoops. Season after season he continues to prove me right.

It looks like I'm a bit late to defend my buddy, Ada. I really don't see anything out of line with his response. Yes, we were more competitive against LSU and Florida than he appeared to have given credit for. Big deal. We still lost those games and got clobbered in three other January games.

As I previously mentioned, RECRUITING has taken a humungous hit over the past 5-6 recruiting classes. We're a long way from schools like Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, and <gulp> Oregon right now. I hope this regime can turn it around since I want to be more optimistic than Boca. Bob has certainly won some big games in recent memory with Notre Dame this year, Florida State in 2011, plus beating Texas the three previous seasons. I'm certainly not looking to see him replaced...but really wish he would dramatically pick things up on the recruiting front.

 

[skyvue]

It looks like I'm a bit late to defend my buddy, Ada. I really don't see anything out of line with his response. Yes, we were more competitive against LSU and Florida than he appeared to have given credit for. Big deal. We still lost those games and got clobbered in three other January games.

No need to defend Ada -- he's one of the most respected members of this board. And no one's trashed him in disagreeing with him. He knows very well that he's one of my favorite posters -- I've told him as much more than once.

But we still get to disagree with him if we think he's off the mark.

The problem I have with those who criticize Coach Stoops is that they rarely acknowledge that a) there will be highs and lows in any successful coach's tenure and b) our lows under Stoops haven't been all that damn low.

Barry Switzer's remembered now as something close to a god, but he lost plenty of games he "shouldn't have," including some bowl games that amounted to national title games (they were games that, if we'd won them, we'd have won the national title). And our talent levels with him at the helm went up and down.

You're going to have good years and less-good years in recruiting. It's going to happen, and it won't always be because you and your staff got lazy or weren't working hard.

And this notion that January games are extra-special-super-important is a) recent and b) ridiculous. If you're not playing in the national title game, a bowl game's just an extra game after the season, an exhibition. As I've often posted, the bowl season is the Twilight Zone of college football. Both teams have had weeks of inaction, and you never know what you're going to get from either team.

They never used to say "Coach X has a terrible record in major bowl games" and that's all non-title BCS games are: the modern equivalent of what used to be called "major" bowl games. But they've been ginned up by all the talking (bone)heads on TV to be something close to the be-all, end-all, and they're simply not.

 

[WTSooner]

No need to defend Ada -- he's one of the most respected members of this board. And no one's trashed him in disagreeing with him. He knows very well that he's one of my favorite posters -- I've told him as much more than once.

But we still get to disagree with him if we think he's off the mark.

The problem I have with those who criticize Coach Stoops is that they rarely acknowledge that a) there will be highs and lows in any successful coach's tenure and b) our lows under Stoops haven't been all that damn low.

Barry Switzer's remembered now as something close to a god, but he lost plenty of games he "shouldn't have," including some bowl games that amounted to national title games (they were games that, if we'd won them, we'd have won the national title). And our talent levels with him at the helm went up and down.

You're going to have good years and less-good years in recruiting. It's going to happen, and it won't always be because you and your staff got lazy or weren't working hard.

And this notion that January games are extra-special-super-important is a) recent and b) ridiculous. If you're not playing in the national title game, a bowl game's just an extra game after the season, an exhibition. As I've often posted, the bowl season is the Twilight Zone of college football. Both teams have had weeks of inaction, and you never know what you're going to get from either team.

They never used to say "Coach X has a terrible record in major bowl games" and that's all non-title BCS games are: the modern equivalent of what used to be called "major" bowl games. But they've been ginned up by all the talking (bone)heads on TV to be something close to the be-all, end-all, and they're simply not.

Agree with just about all of that.

Let me explain the non-NC BCS game thing a different way. First of all, bowl games don't mean much unless you are playing for the NC. They just don't. They are suppose to be a reward for the players for working hard all year, and winning a certain amount of games. That is what they used to be. But back to my point.....OU has been in the NC hunt, and the Big 12 Title hunt way, way more often then not under Bob. We've lost out on a few BCS Title games late in the season, and been forced to play in the Fiesta Bowl. It is very obvious to me why the OU players, under that scenario, wouldn't be very pumped about playing a WV, or a UCONN, or a Boise. A few weeks earlier, they thought they might be playing for a NC, and now they are simply playing in a bowl game that really determines nothing. On the flip side, those schools, the WVs, UCONNs, and Boises, winning their league and getting a matchup with a school like OU, in what is likely to be the only BCS game that group of players ever gets to play in, is going to be pumped. They are excited to be there.

That is why I don't put much, if any, stock in how those non-NC BCS games go.

 

[NickZepp]

The most memorable moment in the 2nd half of the Stoops era are officiating mistakes in losses. Even if you want to pretend that it's the talent, it's Stoops that recruits and evaluates players and our evaluation has been very poor for a long time for the most part.

 

[skyvue]

The most memorable moment in the 2nd half of the Stoops era are officiating mistakes in losses. Even if you want to pretend that it's the talent, it's Stoops that recruits and evaluates players and our evaluation has been very poor for a long time for the most part.

It hasn't been very long that three of the top, what, four or five players taken in the NFL draft were Sooners.

And we've had many memorable moments in the past few years that top a bad call or two. Sooner fans have just become jaded, is all.

I'm old enough to remember good times and bad, and the bad times -- the genuine bad times -- were lousy. I resolved once we started to turn it around under Stoops to celebrate every freaking win, to enjoy every good season (not just the championship ones). The memories of some fans are short, it seems, but mine isn't. I remember the nineties ALL too well to ever think that we're in some kind of bad period now.

There was plenty of grousing during the Switzer years, but it's all forgotten now, and so will be this period of discontent.

 

[AdaSooner]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

You have all made some great points about the success OU fans have enjoyed under Bob Stoops. I agree 110% with everything you said. He has been and still is one of the best college football coaches in the country. I can't think of anyone I would bring in to replace him, except maybe Nick Saban.

Some of the assistants he has hired? Well, that's another story. I like all of the current staff, except one. Heck, I like him, too, as a person, not as an assistant coach. JH was a terrific QB. He has yet to prove, at least to me, that he can be anymore than a decent OC. Too bad some of imaginative play-calling he learned under Leach and Mangino didn't rub off on him.

 

[bassmaster]

It hasn't been very long that three of the top, what, four or five players taken in the NFL draft were Sooners.

And we've had many memorable moments in the past few years that top a bad call or two. Sooner fans have just become jaded, is all.

I'm old enough to remember good times and bad, and the bad times -- the genuine bad times -- were lousy. I resolved once we started to turn it around under Stoops to celebrate every freaking win, to enjoy every good season (not just the championship ones). The memories of some fans are short, it seems, but mine isn't. I remember the nineties ALL too well to ever think that we're in some kind of bad period now.

There was plenty of grousing during the Switzer years, but it's all forgotten now, and so will be this period of discontent.

I agree with everything you said. I hate losing but suffering through the "Blake years" has given me some perspective.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

This has been a most interesting thread. The civil discussion on this basketball board after a loss to Texas, compares most favorably to any football message board I have seen this week.

I have little to offer but this, my personal opinion as an old football fan. My two cents worth.

1. Years from now (if I am still alive), my primary memory of the 2013 OU football season will be that game in South Bend, Indiana that I attended. Bob Stoops was the coach and Blake Bell was the quarterback when, FINALLY, my beloved Sooners defeated the Fighting Irish. While the memory of a loss to Texas fades away, the memory of beating ND will remain crystal clear. More than that, win or lose, that late September trip to Chicago and South Bend was far more memorable than most of the many bowl trips I have made, excluding the trips to NC bowl games, of course.

2. I can safely predict with high confidence that the next head football coach at OU will not have the same level of success that Bob Stoops has had. We can complain all we want, but these are good times for OU football. Bob Stoops is a winner. I also believe he is a classy person that represents the University of Oklahoma quite well.

Also, on a side note, I offer my thanks to the OU administration and the way they schedule non-conference opponents. I look forward to the upcoming football trips to Tennessee, Ohio State, LSU, Army and Nebraska. In may ways, those are equal to, or better than Bowl trips.

 

[cowboysooner]

My thoughts as well SoonerTraveler.

I have followed OU football for about 45 years. I went to my first game during the Steve Owens era. People that ***** about Bob just haven't been around long enough to experience the gibbs, blake, fairbanks and Snellie eras. Switzer was essentially run off.

We are currently in a glorious 15 year era of great success. Bob has taken us to 4 national title games and won one. If Chuck long could have made himself call a running play, we would have won two. We could have easily won the florida game as well, although I think they were the better team.

Bob isn't perfect, and I disagree with a lot of his decisions, schemes etc. He has lost a number games he shouldn't have lost. But, he is a class guy, stands for all the right things with the kids, stays on top of them to act and do the right things, and he is responsible for winning more than 10 games a year. I don't disagree with some of the complaints about Bob, but to suggest OU could find someone equivalent to Bob is naïve and short sighted. Even with all of his faults, we are unbelievably lucky to have him.

Oh and by the way, he has made the university 100s of millions of dollars, and has been a team player within the athletic department, which is not always the case with powerful football coaches (that bring in the money).

And finally, Bob has "finally" made some tough, and agonizing for him, decisions regarding his staff and it appears, to me anyway, we are going in the right direction, recruiting wise. Seems reasonable to me that his current staff would need 2-3 years of recruiting for us to determine if we are going to upgrade the talent like we need to.

And by the way, if nelson and Phillips play, I think we beat texas going away. Would have been a completely different game in my opinion.

 

[skyvue]

if nelson and Phillips play, I think we beat texas going away. Would have been a completely different game in my opinion.

I agree it would been a whole different ballgame, but I don't know about the "winning going away" part. I was concerned about our offense entering the game, and though having more success at stopping the horns would have certainly helped and I think we could have beaten texas, I don't see how we would have won big. I just don't see our offense running it up on anyone right now (though I sincerely hope to be proven wrong this weekend, and going forward.)

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The most memorable moment in the 2nd half of the Stoops era are officiating mistakes in losses.

LOL. The second half of his tenure is what from the 2007 season on?

Off the top of my head.
The entire 2008 season.
Beating top 5 Missouri team twice in one year
Killing Nebraska at home
2008 tech game
Beating florida state twice
beating Miami
having a Heisman winner
playing in a NC
winning big 12 championships
the bedlam game last year
beating ND

 

[DenverSooner]

It hasn't been very long that three of the top, what, four or five players taken in the NFL draft were Sooners.

And we've had many memorable moments in the past few years that top a bad call or two. Sooner fans have just become jaded, is all.

I'm old enough to remember good times and bad, and the bad times -- the genuine bad times -- were lousy. I resolved once we started to turn it around under Stoops to celebrate every freaking win, to enjoy every good season (not just the championship ones). The memories of some fans are short, it seems, but mine isn't. I remember the nineties ALL too well to ever think that we're in some kind of bad period now.

There was plenty of grousing during the Switzer years, but it's all forgotten now, and so will be this period of discontent.

I agree 100%. It was horrible to be an OU fan from 1994-1998. There wasn't a whole lot to enjoy between 1988-94 either. OU had not won 10 games in a season since 1987 when Stoops took over. Back then (1987) we believed anyone could win at OU. However, three different coaches proved that was not true. John Blake proved without a doubt it wasn't true because Stoops won 7 games his first season compared to John Blake's 5 wins the previous season. More importantly Stoops' team was in every game and actually had a lead in all of those games. Blake lost 3-34 to Texas, 6-20 to Missouri, 26-41 to OSU and 0-29 to A&M. There was zero expectation OU could or win football games back then.

Stoops has done such a great job that our fans complain about 10 win seasons. I don't think a single OU fan would call last season a great year but it would equal the best year ever at Baylor and be darn close or better than the best year ever at OSU, ISU, KU, and Tech. A&M has only won 10 or more games twice since 1996. OSU has only won 10 or more games 5 times in history. CU only has a handful of 10 or more win seasons in its history. Missouri is the same way.

OU has won 10 or more 11 times under Stoops. We simply need some perspective as a fan base. We compare our team not just to the greatest programs of all time (Alabama, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, FSU, Ohio State, USC, Michigan, etc) but to whoever is currently the dominant team of that group. When you do that you are obviously going to come up short the vast majority of the time.

 

[AdaSooner]

This has been a most interesting thread. The civil discussion on this basketball board after a loss to Texas, compares most favorably to any football message board I have seen this week.

I have little to offer but this, my personal opinion as an old football fan. My two cents worth.

1. Years from now (if I am still alive), my primary memory of the 2013 OU football season will be that game in South Bend, Indiana that I attended. Bob Stoops was the coach and Blake Bell was the quarterback when, FINALLY, my beloved Sooners defeated the Fighting Irish. While the memory of a loss to Texas fades away, the memory of beating ND will remain crystal clear. More than that, win or lose, that late September trip to Chicago and South Bend was far more memorable than most of the many bowl trips I have made, excluding the trips to NC bowl games, of course.

2. I can safely predict with high confidence that the next head football coach at OU will not have the same level of success that Bob Stoops has had. We can complain all we want, but these are good times for OU football. Bob Stoops is a winner. I also believe he is a classy person that represents the University of Oklahoma quite well.

Also, on a side note, I offer my thanks to the OU administration and the way they schedule non-conference opponents. I look forward to the upcoming football trips to Tennessee, Ohio State, LSU, Army and Nebraska. In may ways, those are equal to, or better than Bowl trips.

Leave it to my friend, SoonerTraveler, to be the voice of reason when I have a momentary lapse of concentration and slip to the dark side.

Great post, Trav! Nothing there I don't agree with.