Do you think this is killing Joe C inside?

[bocabull]

Skyvue, how much basketball did you play competitively? Do you still play?

I do. There are 20 or so guys at my club that play on a regular basis 3 times a week. Ex D-1 players, ex NBA players, great high school players and average high school player like me. Guess what? 80% of the time I know if my team is going to win based on who is on it. As Barry Swizter said, it's not the Xs and the Os, the the Jimmies and the Joes.

All this whining about Capel is silly. It goes back to a previous statement I made about successful people having a positive outlook. I expect things to go my way and more often than not they do. Capel is the same way. Joe C is the way way. Some people around here. Well just follow their attitude and figure that out for yourself.

 

[NickZepp]

Who cares if you play with ex whatever? That doesn't make your argument any better. I remember these same excuses for how bad we were in the 90s as lack of talent in football instead of coaching. In reality it's a little bit of both. We are so bad at all the fundamentals in basketball right now. If you think that's only talent you are crazy.

 

[seniorsooner]

I like the young nucleus we have. Adding Goff/Osby fill our main weakness. We are on track to be right back near the top of the Big 12 pecking order next season.

That's great. I hope you're right. If you're not, then it's time for a change.

 

[NickZepp]

We need to play our young nucleus and see their strengths. Outside of Clark we don't really play our young guys.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Investigation? -- The outcome of the Tiny Gallon NCAA investigation is moot. The program is already dying a slow death right before our eyes. The NCAA need not take action, as we are watching a self-imposed death penalty. The OU basketball program is in a coma, and our doctor seems to have no answers or cures.

Recruiting Stud? – So, what big time recruits are coming in next season to help right the ship? Would it even matter, as none of them seem to hang around long enough for a fan to form a memory that they were here.

Fan Support? – I spent over 30 years as a fan that looked forward with great anticipation and enthusiasm as I drove to the LNC to see each and every game. I spent years as a perpetual sunshine-pumper on the various message boards when others dismissed the accomplishments of consistent 20-win seasons, wins over ranked teams, first round byes in the conference tournament, and post-season invites. Well, I still go to the games. I still support the team. I still hope. But, even though I did not think it possible, something has slowly drained the enthusiasm from the soul of this OU basketball fan. It is now becoming a long drive down to Norman and the winter months seem much longer too. They used to fly by.

Exciting brand of basketball? – I am a simple fan. I get excited by wins. Pretty. Ugly. Up-tempo. Slow-down. Does not matter. It is substance over form for this simple fan. Watching and marveling as a well coached team finds a way to win against another well coached (and often more talented) team. I miss those days, those ancient days of yore.

Hope? – I am losing hope for the future. Someone, please, tell me why I am wrong on this count. Lay some facts and logic on me. Explain why we should stay the course. Nothing discussed so far on this thread gives me comfort.

Options? – Are there not some good high school or small college coaches out there with 20 years of experience that would be thrilled to work for 25% of what OU is now paying? Could they do any worse?

Look. I personally like Coach Capel. The above verbiage is a rant of frustration. Nothing would please me more than to see this team develop over the course of the season and pull some upsets over some good teams. But I also want to see some clear indication that the program is back on the way up. If not ...

Go Sooners!
Beat Sacramento State!

I think we could easily hire the guy who was an asst. for Kelvin and previously coached at OBU. He'd probably take half of what we are paying Capel and win twice as many games.

I'm not advocating hiring the guy, but he is somebody we wouldn't have to pay a buyout and he'd do a good job.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

We need to play our young nucleus and see their strengths. Outside of Clark we don't really play our young guys.

Aren't Blair, Pledge, and Fitz all Sophs.?? If so, then we are playing young guys. Soph's are still considered young guys, and they need all of the time that they can get as well. Its not like we are playing a team full of Sr's.

Fitz, Cam, Newell, Blair, Pledge and Neal are all young guys, and they all will have to get better/contribute in the future.

 

[bob the nailer]

You are probably right. That OU team was really talented. I still think AJ should be playing somewhere in the league if someone like Sefalosia is playing in OKC. That's basically what AJ is except a better passer. But Blake Griffin is a serious talent, Taylor played a year in the NBA. There were other nice parts to that team. We probably weren't as deep as KU's team was or Michigan State's teams are. If we played in any other bracket we make the final 4 and maybe the championship game that year.

I don't remember the exact details but didn't Blake Griffin have a bad relationship with Capel/the coaching staff while he was playing? Again I don't remember everything clearly right now it was 2 years ago but I remember some discussion about how he hadn't even talked to the coaches during the season or something like that. Maybe someone else will remember.

We should have seen signs of Capel not being that good a coach a long time ago. And maybe I was right in what I was saying in some of my stuff about him his first year when he didn't play Nate Carter for half the season and tried to play Neal as something he wasn't. But I'm still not sure that would have won a lot more games that first year if we played Nate all year and put Mike Neal as the 3 point shooter he was.

Sefalosha is at least 4 inches taller than AJ. And taylor was in the league for a year but rarely played.

 

[NickZepp]

I would play the 3 freshman lineup. And Blair has turned it over 6 times, 4 times, 3 times, 5 times, 4 times, and 3 times since playing full time in the last 9 games.

That's not good for your point guard. Newell has played less and less since then.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I would play the 3 freshman lineup. And Blair has turned it over 6 times, 4 times, 3 times, 5 times, 4 times, and 3 times since playing full time in the last 9 games.

That's not good for your point guard. Newell has played less and less since then.

Mainly because he was so scattershot with the ball when he was in there. Blair turns the ball over far too much, but he is a threat on offense, and seems to understand how to run the point at times. Newell just looked like a playground player who really didn't do anything well, IMO. I would try to play them both and hope at least one develops, but I wouldn't play Newell just because he is 1 yr behind Blair. They BOTH have alot of time left in Norman.....

 

[bocabull]

That's great. I hope you're right. If you're not, then it's time for a change.

This is a fair position. If we are not a bubble team at minimum next season with recruits coming in to fill any glaring weaknesses it would raise a valid question about Capel.

The problem is that people act like Capel never took over a team on probation, never landed blake, never built a team around him that went to the elite 8, never added 3 more McDonalds AAs after Blake, never coached the Team USA U18 team to a championship. The trolls want us to believe this years team is the best Capel has to offer which is totally bogus.

 

[Big Old Booger]

This is a fair position. If we are not a bubble team at minimum next season with recruits coming in to fill any glaring weaknesses it would raise a valid question about Capel.

The problem is that people act like Capel never took over a team on probation, never landed blake, never built a team around him that went to the elite 8, never added 3 more McDonalds AAs after Blake, never coached the Team USA U18 team to a championship. The trolls want us to believe this years team is the best Capel has to offer which is totally bogus.

Personally, I don't care what Capel did with the Under 18 team as that has no bearing on what he's done to the OU basketball program.

Sampson signed Taylor Griffin and if he hadn't I would highly doubt if Blake would have considered OU, so to give Capel all the credit for that recruit is just wrong.

As for the team around Blake in the elite 8 season, Crocker, AJ, and Taylor were all signed by Sampson. True, Capel signed WW, but not many programs wanted WW because he was a malcontent as we saw that year and last year.

OU may have been on probation when Capel took over, but that is the most minimal probation in the history of the NCAA. We weren't limited on TV appearances or prevented from playing in the NCAA tourney. Yes, we were limited on the number of recruiting visits and we had to give up one scholarship, but those are not valid reasons for the program to be in it's current position.

 

[DenverSooner]

What game did OU win that season that truly impresses you. I am not talking about the season as a whole just name the singl game or games?

It was a good season but OU lost to KU, Teaxas, Missouri OSU and Arkansas. OU beat three teams OU should have beaten in the Tournament. OU beat Purdue in OT in December and beat OSU in Stillwater. A&M on the road was a good win but OU did not do much outside of that. Baylor was a terrible defensive team that year. Tech was not good. OSU was average at best. It was a good season but You act like Capel was a miracle worker. The fact of the matter is OU was not very good on def that season and probably should have won a few more games. I am not upset with Capel for that season but I am also not going to say he is a great coach based on one season. The other 3.5 seasons just don't support that opinion.

OU had Blake Griffin, Taylor Griffin and Longar the year before and was only one win above .500 in conference play. His first season he did not make the Tournament. His third season was horrible. This season might be worse. The people that are upset are huge ball fans. They love OU basketball and have followed it on the Internet for a decade or more. Many of us go back to the OU Honer Board. We are fans, we love this program and there is plenty of evidence to support the position that Capel is not doing a good job. He is going to. Iss the post season 60% of the time after this season.

 

[skyvue]

TThe problem is that people act like Capel never took over a team on probation, never landed blake, never built a team around him that went to the elite 8, never added 3 more McDonalds AAs after Blake, never coached the Team USA U18 team to a championship. The trolls want us to believe this years team is the best Capel has to offer which is totally bogus.

Put a team together that went to the Elite Eight?

BG aside, most of the key players on that team were Sampson recruits. Willie was arguably a good get, but his sophomore year was a bust, even given his injury. He was falling well short of reasonable expectations even before he got hurt.

As for whether I ever played basketball competitively, no, I didn't. I'm a lousy athlete, always was. But then I've never performed surgery, either, but I can recognize that a surgeon with ten years of experience who loses half his patients is falling down on the job.

I also, unlike you, don't turn the game off when we fall behind by double digits. I watch till the bitter end and never give up. So stow your ridiculous "troll" accusations. You're also the one who trashed Cade Davis ad nauseum, even though he busts his butt game in and game out. If we'd had more Cade Davises last season and fewer of these McDAA's you keep touting, we'd have been much better off.

It's astonishing to me that anyone touts the signing of TMG and Tiny as positive achievements. They were complete and utter busts, and did far more harm to our program than good. And Capel did nothing to shape them up -- he's admitted that he could tell in the summer of 2009 that they were not hard workers, but he still handed them starting positions. That's no way to shape a pair of self-centered, me-first, lazy players.

How I wish they'd never set foot in Norman.

No one has said this is the best Capel has to offer, but the numbers don't lie. Three out of five seasons we're going to completely miss out on postseason action, without even a trip to the freaking NIT. The only two times we've made the tourney were with BG on the team.

How anyone can excuse that boggles my mind. We went a quarter-century without missing the posteason, and now, having missed it three out of five years, those of us who are dismayed by the mess our program is in are being called "trolls."

By a guy who turns off the TV when we fall behind and has trashed Cade Davis in post after post.

 

[bocabull]

LOL @ the constant Cade Davis references. I accurately assess the guys talent 4 or 5 times and it gets mentioned 150 times. He can shoot 10% from the field, 0% from 3, turn the ball over, fail to block out time after time and his "fans" will blame Capel for our losses.

I absolutely turn off non competitive games of every sport. When OU is beating Iowa State 52-0 in football I don't watch that either.

Capel will have OU competitive again and when he gets enough high major players back on the roster they will be worth watching again. Until then, I'll find better things to do with my time. Heading out to mountain bike right now.

 

[NickZepp]

Can Capel get players that are worth while? So far in his 4+ years he's really only gotten 1 in Blake.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Can Capel get players that are worth while? So far in his 4+ years he's really only gotten 1 in Blake.

Define 'worthwhile'. If you consider Blake to be our only recent 'worthwhile' player, you pretty much throw Cade & this year's recruits under the bus.

 

[DenverSooner]

Define 'worthwhile'. If you consider Blake to be our only recent 'worthwhile' player, you pretty much throw Cade & this year's recruits under the bus.

Fair enough but make a list of the good players. Crocker (Sampson), Cade davis, Ryan wright, Omar Leary, pledger, fitzgerald, Blake and ww? Did I leave anyone off?

 

[stoops4pres]

Sampson signed Taylor Griffin and if he hadn't I would highly doubt if Blake would have considered OU, so to give Capel all the credit for that recruit is just wrong.

Its not a secret that TG was set to transfer had Sampson not left for Indiana. TG was not a Sampson fan and was wanting to leave because of his displeasure for Sampson.

When Capel came in, TG believed and trusted in Capel enough to stay at OU. That's when BG came in.

So in reality I think Capel deserves a ton of credit for that recruit, because he did in fact keep TG from transferring.

 

[stoops4pres]

The year before NC looked pretty tough. I thought they won the whole thing too, but Bill Self and Kansas beat the heck out of them. Tom Izzo won the whole thing with the same talent. Good coach knows how to game plan and use talent.

I think there's a difference between the UNC team of '07-08 and '08-09.

UNC rolled past everyone when they won the title in '09. And they humiliated a team you just mentioned in Michigan State in the title game.

It was just an awful match-up for OU. UNC proved they were going to handily beat anyone they played in that tournament, and OU was no different. I really wish OU would have had another 1 seed match-up (had BG not gone down OU very well could have been one of those 1 seeds), because I really thought OU was one of the top 2-4 teams in the country that year.

 

[stoops4pres]

The only problem we had that season was we faced North Carolina. If you want to argue that team gets a 1 seed and doesn't face NC till the final 4 maybe I agree. But anyone was having a tough time beating NC that year.

Agreed.