March Madness and Covid-19

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think there are a few things to keep in mind here.

1.) I would absolutely applaud him if he did a great job handling this crisis. Typically American's come together at time of crisis, such as 9/11. The Republicans under George Bush repaid that with a phony war against Iraq that costs trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives. It was based on known false pretenses. At this point, no denying it now. It is what it is.

I am a liberal... and one area I have agreed with Trump is his anti-war stance. The problem is, those problems still haven't ceased. We are still in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It sounds like there planned troop reductions in the works, but we are STILL there. That was common ground I had with Trump, and supported him on.

I also fully support updating trade deals that are bad for our country. If a new NAFTA or TPP, or deal with China or the EU makes our workers better off, I am all for that.

2.) Economically, there is little he can do to appease liberals. Allow me to explain.

Conservatives and Liberals are simply too far apart on what the world should even look like that the results don't matter. If liberals just wanted to be the ones to tout low unemployment numbers, your premise would be true, which is that they didn't clap even though it was a good time to clap. Low African-American unemployment numbers are seemingly a good thing to clap about. They probably should have. It's not like I am upset about that figure, or deny it, but I have a deeper problems than that.

You don't understand liberals... His world, and your world, aren't what liberals want.

----We want a full green energy system. He wants to dig coal.
----We want universal health care (like the rest of the world). He wants the old way.
----We want tuition-free education (like the rest of the world). He wants the status quo which isn't working.
----We want expanded Social Security. His party wants to de-fund it to death.
----We want guaranteed time off, vacation days, better benefits. He wants the old way.
----We want policies put in place for more equitable wealth distribution. He does not. He wants the old way.
----We want huge corporate money out politics so these things can be achieved. They want to keep it the way it is.

Those are just a few examples related to economics and quality of life. I could go on all day. He is touting a successful stat from his world. His world has different metrics for success than what liberals envision.

In his world, if everyone is employed, that's a win. It doesn't matter if they:

A.) Have good healthcare or healthcare at all
B.) Have gigantic education debt or education at all... or got a good primary education
C.) Have any benefits at work
D.) Have any certain quality of life... just employment will do.
E.) Make anything more than $7.50 per hour
D.) Have any time off, work/life balance, etc.
F.) Are guaranteed any certain hours, full-time, part-time, whatever.. just having A job will do.
G.) Can afford any type of respectable housing
Etc....

31% of the country makes less than $12 an hour... throw in who makes $12.50, $13, $13.50, $14, etc... You get the picture. Roughly 42% of the country makes less than $15 an hour. That's a problem, to a liberal anyway.

Being employed (which is what you are touting) has only been a problem a few times in American history, through all different styles of leadership. That isn't the metric of success that liberals are looking for.

I would say being employed in some form or fashion is literally the bare minimum.


That's all nice and stuff, but if you want to go down the list of the top 20 wealthiest individuals in our country you would find most of all are democrats. If they wanted to redistribute they would do just that for there are no barriers or laws in place precluding them from doing just that. Talk about income inequality! Obama touched on this as president and as soon as he left office his actions did not match his rhetoric. Does this really surprise you?

With respect to education much of that falls on those in charge of the family unit and to a large extent it is vaporizing before our eyes, so good luck with that one. If you look at the nations who have an education system to idolize chances are the family unit plays a much larger role in things than it does here.


And maybe when we live in a country where people do not measure themselves by the car they drive or the size of their tv then people will in general feel less left out. Feeling left out is a key driver in a number of things you touched on. The difference between the haves versus the have not's is not just a physical one, but a philosophical one, too. It all starts in the noggin. What occurs after that is a direct function of it.
 
Last edited:
That's all nice and stuff, but if you want to go down the list of the top 20 wealthiest individuals in our country you would find most of all are democrats. If they wanted to redistribute they would do just that for there are no barriers or laws in place precluding them from doing just that. Talk about income inequality! Obama touched on this as president and as soon as he left office his actions did not match his rhetoric. Does this really surprise you?

With respect to education much of that falls on those in charge of the family unit and to a large extent it is vaporizing before our eyes, so good luck with that one. If you look at the nations who have an education system to idolize chances are the family unit plays a much larger role in things than it does here.


And maybe when we live in a country where people do not measure themselves by the car they drive or the size of their tv then people will in general feel less left out. Feeling left out is a key driver in a number of things you touched on. The difference between the haves versus the have not's is not just a physical one, but a philosophical one, too. It all starts in the noggin. What occurs after that is a direct function of it.

1) Teachers having to spend money on classroom essentials.
2) Good teachers leaving because of low pay and lack of funding.
3) outdated textbooks & technology.

These are reasons budget cutting hurts education even more. The lack of family unit plays a big part of an individuals education but doesn’t help with the system as a whole.
 
1) Teachers having to spend money on classroom essentials.
2) Good teachers leaving because of low pay and lack of funding.
3) outdated textbooks & technology.

These are reasons budget cutting hurts education even more. The lack of family unit plays a big part of an individuals education but doesn’t help with the system as a whole.


Separating the wheat from the chaff.

Do people enter the Church as ministers and nuns, for example, with money being the motivating factor. I say no. There is a sacrifice being made here. The question is should the church example be the only example where a sacrifice is to be made. I personally do not believe so and teaching and the medical community should follow suit, and politics as well. With education the end is the goal and not the means, but we exist in a society where employment is a means to an end with the end game being a large paycheck. Perhaps teachers should receive monetary breaks on things like housing and other necessities in life in which to assist them and as a way to thank them for their sacrifice.

The children are our future but babysitters and daycare employees are not rolling in the dough. Sacrifices need to be made. Without sacrifice life becomes a blur and an ugly blur at that.
 
Last edited:
Separating the wheat from the chaff.

Do people enter the Church as ministers and nuns, for example, with money being the motivating factor. I say no. There is a sacrifice being made here. The question is should the church example be the only example where a sacrifice is to be made. I personally do not believe so and teaching and the medical community should follow suit, and politics as well. With education the end is the goal and not the means, but we exist in a society where employment is a means to an end with the end game being a large paycheck. Perhaps teachers should receive monetary breaks on things like housing and other necessities in life.

Money is obviously not the motivating factor. You are losing really good teachers because they can make way more money without the needless stress.
 
Money is obviously not the motivating factor. You are losing really good teachers because they can make way more money without the needless stress.

Are you contradicting yourself? Are both of your statements directed at teachers or just the second statement. Either way sacrifices need to be made for the betterment of society as a whole. Another example would be those who protect us such as the military, law enforcement, emergency personnel. My niece was a field agent for the FBI and after two years of service her pay was just north of 40k. I believe these people are more interested in their role at servicing the country in which they live in as opposed to something else such as replenishing the stuff in the closet.
 
You don't understand liberals... His world, and your world, aren't what liberals want.

----We want a full green energy system. He wants to dig coal.
----We want universal health care (like the rest of the world). He wants the old way.
----We want tuition-free education (like the rest of the world). He wants the status quo which isn't working.
----We want expanded Social Security. His party wants to de-fund it to death.
----We want guaranteed time off, vacation days, better benefits. He wants the old way.
----We want policies put in place for more equitable wealth distribution. He does not. He wants the old way.
----We want huge corporate money out politics so these things can be achieved. They want to keep it the way it is.

Those are just a few examples related to economics and quality of life. I could go on all day. He is touting a successful stat from his world. His world has different metrics for success than what liberals envision.

In his world, if everyone is employed, that's a win. It doesn't matter if they:

A.) Have good healthcare or healthcare at all
B.) Have gigantic education debt or education at all... or got a good primary education
C.) Have any benefits at work
D.) Have any certain quality of life... just employment will do.
E.) Make anything more than $7.50 per hour
D.) Have any time off, work/life balance, etc.
F.) Are guaranteed any certain hours, full-time, part-time, whatever.. just having A job will do.
G.) Can afford any type of respectable housing
Etc....

I don't know what the President's view on the above items is exactly, but
I will attempt to address a few of these from a libertarian/conservative perspective:

A.) I want quality health care for everyone as well. But a singular, universal system would be a disaster. Depending upon the price tag, it would not only limit/delay access, but it would also have an adverse effect on research and technology. Think about it, how many health care technological advances that save lives come out of Denmark or Sweden. I do think we could improve our public/private mix to include better options for lower income folks. It's a complicated and comprehensive issue that can only be addressed one bite at a time unfortunately.
B.) I would be open to cost reduction (depending upon the price tag) for tuition at Community Colleges and State funded universities. But I believe it should be a state decision more than federal. And young people need to learn that maybe you can't afford to go to certain private schools because you can't afford it. And if these decisions were made from a cost/benefit standpoint, you would have considerably less student loan debt. I've heard of countless people who went into tremendous debt going to expensive private universities only to become a social worker (a great vocation btw)....know what you want to do and financially prepare accordingly.
C.) When you go to work for someone (in the private sector), you enter into a contract with an employer. Thus, during the interview process, you have the opportunity to learn about the "benefits package". And then you can choose to work for "X" company. You are not compelled (gun to your head) to work for "X" company.....you have the choice to find another company with better benefits or that fit your scenario.
E.) This is something some folks on the left don't fully discern. Minimum wage jobs were not created to sustain a living wage....and shouldn't be viewed that way. That's not the purpose of those types of jobs. They are typically entry level, part time or seasonal positions. They are typically non or low-skilled positions. IMO, the point of "minimum wage" jobs are to move up the ladder as fast as possible so that you're not in that position. And in a large number of instances, people working full-time in these types of positions have other issues likely in need of addressing (education, structure, motivation, etc.)...not trying to be insensitive, but there is truth to this. And the economics (in most cases) would force the owner/management to offset increased labor costs....which could lead to less employees, automation, or in some cases.....constricting your business. And of course increased costs would be passed along to us....the consumer.

And I don't know anyone who wants to get rid of social security. However, it is in desperate need of reform because we are going to run out of money. The mechanisms that fund it are hemorrhaging.

In much of the above, most of us want the same thing, but through different means of achieving it. It appears the main chasm between the two worldviews is that you, by and large, want big federal government solutions to resolve many issues. I'm usually a proponent of "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen". And some of these items can better be solved on a local level where the problems/issues are generally understood better at a granular level.
 
Are you contradicting yourself? Are both of your statements directed at teachers or just the second statement. Either way sacrifices need to be made for the betterment of society as a whole. Another example would be those who protect us such as the military, law enforcement, emergency personnel. My niece was a field agent for the FBI and after two years of service her pay was just north of 40k. I believe these people are more interested in their role at servicing the country in which they live in as opposed to something else such as replenishing the stuff in the closet.

Money isn’t the motivator for people going into teaching and staying in teaching. It is one of the main reasons why people are leaving.
 
I don't know what the President's view on the above items is exactly, but
I will attempt to address a few of these from a libertarian/conservative perspective:

A.) I want quality health care for everyone as well. But a singular, universal system would be a disaster. Depending upon the price tag, it would not only limit/delay access, but it would also have an adverse effect on research and technology. Think about it, how many health care technological advances that save lives come out of Denmark or Sweden. I do think we could improve our public/private mix to include better options for lower income folks. It's a complicated and comprehensive issue that can only be addressed one bite at a time unfortunately.
B.) I would be open to cost reduction (depending upon the price tag) for tuition at Community Colleges and State funded universities. But I believe it should be a state decision more than federal. And young people need to learn that maybe you can't afford to go to certain private schools because you can't afford it. And if these decisions were made from a cost/benefit standpoint, you would have considerably less student loan debt. I've heard of countless people who went into tremendous debt going to expensive private universities only to become a social worker (a great vocation btw)....know what you want to do and financially prepare accordingly.
C.) When you go to work for someone (in the private sector), you enter into a contract with an employer. Thus, during the interview process, you have the opportunity to learn about the "benefits package". And then you can choose to work for "X" company. You are not compelled (gun to your head) to work for "X" company.....you have the choice to find another company with better benefits or that fit your scenario.
E.) This is something some folks on the left don't fully discern. Minimum wage jobs were not created to sustain a living wage....and shouldn't be viewed that way. That's not the purpose of those types of jobs. They are typically entry level, part time or seasonal positions. They are typically non or low-skilled positions. IMO, the point of "minimum wage" jobs are to move up the ladder as fast as possible so that you're not in that position. And in a large number of instances, people working full-time in these types of positions have other issues likely in need of addressing (education, structure, motivation, etc.)...not trying to be insensitive, but there is truth to this. And the economics (in most cases) would force the owner/management to offset increased labor costs....which could lead to less employees, automation, or in some cases.....constricting your business. And of course increased costs would be passed along to us....the consumer.

And I don't know anyone who wants to get rid of social security. However, it is in desperate need of reform because we are going to run out of money. The mechanisms that fund it are hemorrhaging.

In much of the above, most of us want the same thing, but through different means of achieving it. It appears the main chasm between the two worldviews is that you, by and large, want big federal government solutions to resolve many issues. I'm usually a proponent of "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen". And some of these items can better be solved on a local level where the problems/issues are generally understood better at a granular level.


When looking at the increased costs associated with a college education one would see that it is outstripping the rise in inflation and this is not new.

An Ivy league education at Brown was $5k in the mid 70's for tuition and today it costs $50k. On top of that the education received previously is not less than that of today when in fact today's quality probably does not measure up to its past billing. There is a reason for this and all one has to do is look at the administrators for the answers. They are a greedy bunch if you ask me. On top of that colleges are liberal run institutions. Go figure. They want solutions when they are the problem. Nice!
 
CNN poll shows 41% approval rating for Obama during the Ebola virus.


https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/politics/wapo-abc-ebola-poll/index.html

You’ve got to be kidding me. You’re comparing apples and spaceships. Do you know how many Americans contracted Ebola in America?
Drumroll, wait for it... TWO! 2 whole people. Ebola was not a national crisis that caused people to rally around the nation’s leader. A few people had to undergo screening at airports, boo-hoo. The United States military was dispatched to west Africa to help with the situation at its source. Of course that didn’t stop Donald Trump from going ballistic on Twitter. Go search some of his insane Ebola tweets from the era, truly eye-opening.
 
You’ve got to be kidding me. You’re comparing apples and spaceships. Do you know how many Americans contracted Ebola in America?
Drumroll, wait for it... TWO! 2 whole people. Ebola was not a national crisis that caused people to rally around the nation’s leader. A few people had to undergo screening at airports, boo-hoo. The United States military was dispatched to west Africa to help with the situation at its source. Of course that didn’t stop Donald Trump from going ballistic on Twitter. Go search some of his insane Ebola tweets from the era, truly eye-opening.

A poster stated other administrations had a much better approval rating during times of crisis. I provided an example. Nothing more nothing less. No one is comparing Ebola to Covid as one in the same for Covid is obviously worse yet 60%>41% (people would generally be more critical in a greater crisis than a less imposing one).
 
Last edited:
A poster stated other administrations had a much better approval rating during times of crisis. I provided an example. Nothing more nothing less. No one is comparing Ebola to Covid as one in the same for Covid is obviously worse yet 60%>41% (people would generally be more critical in a greater crisis than a less imposing one).

You’re wrong.

1. Ebola was not a crisis. Zero Americans died.
2. People are LESS critical of leaders during a crisis. There’s a rally around the flag effect. You know, “now is not the time for politics,” etc.
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/27/822043781/trumps-approval-hits-new-high-but-a-rally-around-the-flag-effect-is-small
 
Last edited:
Conservatives and Liberals are simply too far apart on what the world should even look like that the results don't matter.

----We want a full green energy system. He wants to dig coal.
----We want universal health care (like the rest of the world). He wants the old way.
----We want tuition-free education (like the rest of the world). He wants the status quo which isn't working.
----We want expanded Social Security. His party wants to de-fund it to death.
----We want guaranteed time off, vacation days, better benefits. He wants the old way.
----We want policies put in place for more equitable wealth distribution. He does not. He wants the old way.
----We want huge corporate money out politics so these things can be achieved. They want to keep it the way it is.

That first sentence is true of just about every issue conservatives and liberals can't agree on. Philosophically, we both just want vastly differently things. It's also why I don't see it ever getting much better.

- The move to "green" needs to be started through private companies. Once somebody can develop a way to make cheap, affordable, green energy, and jobs to go along with it, you'll see the Nation start shifting that way. That is not the case now. We aren't to that point. So yeah, how about we not completely throw away the energy industry that we currently have that does so much for so many.

- There are A LOT of Americans that don't want universal healthcare. Even a significant amount of liberals (at least, those that are moderately liberal).

- The vast majority of the world does not have free college.

- I work in the professional field, and the people I come into contact with all have several weeks of paid time off. Who is wanting this, and to what degree, that isn't getting it? Part time burger flippers at McDonald's?

- Equitable wealth distribution. LMAO. You know there are a bunch of liberals that own big companies that can distribute that income/wealth any way they see fit. And yet, almost none of them do what "your party" seems to suggest they want people to do. Lead from the front. If that is what Dems want, then I would expect liberal business owners to start doing this on their own. And anybody that feels that way has the ability and right to start their own company and run it and distribute income/wealth any way they want. Don't like how Amazon is run? Start a version on different principles. If enough people agree, they'll buy from you and not Amazon. But nah, you want to sit around and b*tch and moan about how it's not fair that somebody had an idea and turned it to a wildly successful company.

- I call BS on this to. Dems have every bit the corporate money involved in politics that the GOP has. This is an overall problem in politics, not one with just the conservative side. Comments like this are why I say you and others are so out of touch. SO MANY comments on here over the last few weeks trying to make a problem in today's politics a conservative problem, when the truth is it's a problem with both sides, or politics in general.
 
What is your all's take on China? Every article and every piece of commentary I hear/read reports the number of cases and deaths, but questions if the numbers are legit.

Honestly reporting numbers? Showing a better response than reality? Or a full blown coverup?
 
That first sentence is true of just about every issue conservatives and liberals can't agree on. Philosophically, we both just want vastly differently things. It's also why I don't see it ever getting much better.

- The move to "green" needs to be started through private companies. Once somebody can develop a way to make cheap, affordable, green energy, and jobs to go along with it, you'll see the Nation start shifting that way. That is not the case now. We aren't to that point. So yeah, how about we not completely throw away the energy industry that we currently have that does so much for so many.

- There are A LOT of Americans that don't want universal healthcare. Even a significant amount of liberals (at least, those that are moderately liberal).

- The vast majority of the world does not have free college.

- I work in the professional field, and the people I come into contact with all have several weeks of paid time off. Who is wanting this, and to what degree, that isn't getting it? Part time burger flippers at McDonald's?

- Equitable wealth distribution. LMAO. You know there are a bunch of liberals that own big companies that can distribute that income/wealth any way they see fit. And yet, almost none of them do what "your party" seems to suggest they want people to do. Lead from the front. If that is what Dems want, then I would expect liberal business owners to start doing this on their own. And anybody that feels that way has the ability and right to start their own company and run it and distribute income/wealth any way they want. Don't like how Amazon is run? Start a version on different principles. If enough people agree, they'll buy from you and not Amazon. But nah, you want to sit around and b*tch and moan about how it's not fair that somebody had an idea and turned it to a wildly successful company.

- I call BS on this to. Dems have every bit the corporate money involved in politics that the GOP has. This is an overall problem in politics, not one with just the conservative side. Comments like this are why I say you and others are so out of touch. SO MANY comments on here over the last few weeks trying to make a problem in today's politics a conservative problem, when the truth is it's a problem with both sides, or politics in general.

100% spot on...

first off...WTF? "WE"...vs "He"....ummm, half the country voted for trump...so NO it isn't "WE" vs "He"...what a crock of ****.
 
What is your all's take on China? Every article and every piece of commentary I hear/read reports the number of cases and deaths, but questions if the numbers are legit.

Honestly reporting numbers? Showing a better response than reality? Or a full blown coverup?

China be trusted? LOL...can't believe that's even an "option"....but after seeing your conservative vs liberals post I can see why you'd make that an option.

Let's see...they KNEW about the virus in Nov but didn't say anything til late Dec? Jan?

There a a few videos leaked out of ordinary citizens telling a whole different story.

Ironically there were lots of pro-democracy demonstrations and now all the sudden the news is all virus.

Yeah, China is telling the truth about numbers...
 
You’re wrong.

1. Ebola was not a crisis. Zero Americans died.
2. People are LESS critical of leaders during a crisis. There’s a rally around the flag effect. You know, “now is not the time for politics,” etc.
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/27/822043781/trumps-approval-hits-new-high-but-a-rally-around-the-flag-effect-is-small

Take a look at who is president and that will tell you all that you need to know.

When Covid started "wherever it started" it was seen as a "potential crisis." The man at the helm has been a target for impeachment before he even took office so the rally has been around the guillotine.

http://graphics.wsj.com/ebola-crisis/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/25/-sp-ebola-crisis-briefing

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/world/africa/cuts-at-who-hurt-response-to-ebola-crisis.html

https://thebulletin.org/2014/10/whos-in-charge-during-the-ebola-crisis/

https://www.savethechildren.org/us/what-we-do/emergency-response/ebola-crisis

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/8/140820-ebola-virus-liberia-monrovia-health-africa/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/22/opinions/ebola-outbreak-drc-green/index.html
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top