March Madness and Covid-19

[steverocks35]

By the way, there was an error on the Worldometer Covid-19 website yesterday. They inadvertently left out all of New York's data. The number of deaths reported on the website for yesterday was 264, the actual number was 441.

 

[coolm]

My response was not poiitical in nature. I apologize if I misunderstood what you said. I saw micto85 make a statement about the virus. Then I saw you respond and I thought your response was related to knowing 2 people with the virus who would be deceased if micto85 got his way. Apparently your response was not related 2 people with the virus. Oh well!

you think we should continue doing things if we don't have information while I think not having information means we take worst case measures to ensure cleanliness. this is how cleanliness protocols work. thats how you rid yourself of biological agents and contaminants.

I am sorry this concept is beyond your ability to grasp.

 

[WTSooner]

you think we should continue doing things if we don't have information while I think not having information means we take worst case measures to ensure cleanliness. this is how cleanliness protocols work. thats how you rid yourself of biological agents and contaminants.

I am sorry this concept is beyond your ability to grasp.

You have ALL the answers, don't you?

Good grief. Too many know-it-alls around here.

 

[coolm]

You have ALL the answers, don't you?

Good grief. Too many know-it-alls around here.

now you're indicting me for actually knowing the answers? we ran these drills daily in radcon (R-5) on the Canopus while out to sea and twice a week in port at Kings Bay.

there are actual answers to these things vice just the self-indulging conservative do-nothings you wish to extend out of financial worries. spend 10 years in nuclear energy or hazardous waste disposal and you'll be familiar with them too. quit running from knowledge and embrace it.

 

[sheepdogs1]

you think we should continue doing things if we don't have information while I think not having information means we take worst case measures to ensure cleanliness. this is how cleanliness protocols work. thats how you rid yourself of biological agents and contaminants.

I am sorry this concept is beyond your ability to grasp.

I am trying to be nice and you respond by being condescending.

I did not address what we should or should not do as it relates to your response to micto85. My response had nothing to do with "cleanliness," none at all, yet you insert it into the conversation as if I did. How you got that is beyond me.

I already stated how I saw things. You made it sound like you know 2 people who have the virus and they would already be dead if micto85 had his way. It has nothing to do with anything else and that is why I asked you "why you thought micto85 would not want your friends/associates to receive medical help." If I said 2+2 =4 you would ask me why I'm talking about endometriosis.

 

[coolm]

2 people shot by snipers would have been abandoned ... but we don't cut and abandon people. what is so hard to understand about that?

 

[WTSooner]

2 people shot by snipers would have been abandoned ... but we don't cut and abandon people. what is so hard to understand about that?

So the military NEVER leaves people behind? EVER?

Get out of here.

That isn't an apples to apples comparison anyways. But stop acting like the military isn't forced into doing that sometimes. They are.

 

[sheepdogs1]

2 people shot by snipers would have been abandoned ... but we don't cut and abandon people. what is so hard to understand about that?

I never referenced people in Iraq whether they were our servicemen or Iraqis. Not once, so how you involve me in this is a bit odd.

My conversation revolved 100% around 2 people being ill with the virus and why micto85 believes they should not receive medical attention. It had nothing to do with the military or snipers or people being abandoned or cleanliness or protocols.

If you want to be critical of what I said that is fine but to be critical for things I never tabled or discussed is just odd in and of itself.

 

[coolm]

I never referenced people in Iraq whether they were our servicemen or Iraqis. Not once, so how you involve me in this is a bit odd.

My conversation revolved 100% around 2 people being ill with the virus and why micto85 believes they should not receive medical attention. It had nothing to do with the military or snipers or people being abandoned or cleanliness or protocols.

It has EVERYTHING to do with cleanliness and protocols. can't you guys see past the end of your nose??

 

[mict085]

2 people shot by snipers would have been abandoned ... but we don't cut and abandon people. what is so hard to understand about that?

This is such a ridiculous response and it’s not the same scenario as our present situation.

You THINK you have the answer but that’s not necessarily true. Your drills are not the same as a running that drill on 330 million people.

The economics of shutting everything down for more than 30-60 days would outweigh the loss of life from the virus. There is a threshold where the “cure” becomes more deadly than the virus. That’s what I have been saying. You’re stupid foxhole comment is both out of line and inapplicable.

 

[sheepdogs1]

It has EVERYTHING to do with cleanliness and protocols. can't you guys see past the end of your nose??

Either micto85 believes 2 people infected with Covid-19 should receive medical attention or not is related to cleanliness and protocols in what way.

What I am addressing has nothing to do with the other posters you are currently responding to as they are separate issues.

 

[mict085]

...and another thing. I’ve never said people that need treatment should go untreated. I said high risk should absolutely self isolate. Those that aren’t high risk should be going back to work. We can still work while practicing social distancing and good hygiene as much as possible. Hand washing, wearing masks and gloves, etc., taking every precaution while still working.

I’ve never said let people go untreated.

 

[thebigabd]

...and another thing. I’ve never said people that need treatment should go untreated. I said high risk should absolutely self isolate. Those that aren’t high risk should be going back to work. We can still work while practicing social distancing and good hygiene as much as possible. Hand washing, wearing masks and gloves, etc., taking every precaution while still working.

I’ve never said let people go untreated.

Question about this... and keep in mind it's not meant as a criticism or anything.

Let's say we do that... Employers open their doors and an employee gets sick and dies. Is the company liable for that in any way? Would there be any legal ramifications in terms of lawsuits, unsafe workplace claims, or medical claims if people are out for weeks after getting sick?

 

[coolm]

The economics of shutting everything down for more than 30-60 days would outweigh the loss of life from the virus. There is a threshold where the “cure” becomes more deadly than the virus.

and the proof of this is where? this is just your guess of what might happen?

 

[sheepdogs1]

...and another thing. I’ve never said people that need treatment should go untreated. I said high risk should absolutely self isolate. Those that aren’t high risk should be going back to work. We can still work while practicing social distancing and good hygiene as much as possible. Hand washing, wearing masks and gloves, etc., taking every precaution while still working.

I’ve never said let people go untreated.

I never stated as such. What happened is you made a statement on how 200k people might die.

Coolm then said "he knows 2 people who would die because of your statement."


I thought he was talking about 2 people who he personally knows who have the virus.


He then starts to talk about the military, protocols, cleanliness etc to me when I never made mention of these things.

 

[stormspencer]

This is a great link. It shows every state, and lists the criteria for its projections. It shows just about every state peaking anywhere from April 15-20th. The interesting thing about his link it shows you the impact on ICU and hospital beds.

These worst-case scenarios of peaking in May or 1 million cases or 200K deaths are based on limited mitigation. Even Dr. Fauci has said this. 70% of the country is in more severe mitigation restrictions than the CDC recommendations that were today extended to April 30th. The predictions on this website might be more realistic based on the shelter in place restrictions now placed on 250+ million Americans and 47 of the largest 50 cities.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

This is encouraging. And I believe the projection bell curve will continue to decrease so long as we abide by the "shelter in place" dictates....especially in larger cities. The other component is ventilators, PPE, and beds. Unfortunately, we are still playing catch-up in some cities in those aspects. But I can vouch for North Texas....multiple hospitals and clinics have pro-actively begun to expand (some already have expanded) to account for the additional patients to be seen. My company has been working and coordinating with the larger IDNs (Baylor Scott & White, THR, Methodist) locally on the ground to enhance capabilities to account for the inevitable increases.

 

[coolm]

...and another thing. I’ve never said people that need treatment should go untreated. I said high risk should absolutely self isolate. Those that aren’t high risk should be going back to work. We can still work while practicing social distancing and good hygiene as much as possible. Hand washing, wearing masks and gloves, etc., taking every precaution while still working.

I’ve never said let people go untreated.

and as I continue and continue and continue to note we can't show protection for that. the whole "6 foot" thing is a what we call a "hand rule" ... about like using 22/7 for pi vice 3.14159. handy but by no means meant for safety purposes. the priority is:
1. stay home
2. only leave for emergent things
3. exercise personal protections as best possible if you must get out.

going out and washing your hands and maintaining distance does not guarantee protection and if we cannot engage in spot testing then you no longer are ensured to have a clean area and we get right back to the same problem we have now ... asymptomatic people running around willy nilly causing exposure to others.

It all goes back to the SWIMS protocol that they still teach at the CDC and NRC etc... . It's just modified. Stop the exposure event, Warn others to stay back, Isolate the area, Minimize personal exposure (TDS), and Secure non-HEPA filtered ventilation. Then you set a clean area, an access control point, and control entry by testing. Then you expand that area by cleaning and testing to rid yourself of the contaminant or virus. If you don't stop person-to-person xmission then this hangs around and eventually destroys you. you have to bite the bullet and isolate. period.

 

[MJSooner]

Question about this... and keep in mind it's not meant as a criticism or anything.

Let's say we do that... Employers open their doors and an employee gets sick and dies. Is the company liable for that in any way? Would there be any legal ramifications in terms of lawsuits, unsafe workplace claims, or medical claims if people are out for weeks after getting sick?

I think this is the point that is forgotten in a lot of this conversation. In many, if not the majority of cases, businesses, organizations, universities, public schools, and meetings were postponed/canceled/stay-at-home BEFORE the government restrictions.

There are those that want to say the government should reopen before it destroys the economy, but the reality is what the government does at this point is only impacting what we do on our own time, for the most part. The businesses, universities, organizations, and schools are not going to reopen or go back to normal just because Gov. Stitt or Mayor Holt and Mayor Bynum said there are no restrictions.

 

[Darwin]

Is there any sort of compromise option between the two groups?

Group A: Shut everything down for a period of time to stop people from catching and being killed by the virus.

Group B: Open things back up, practice good hand hygiene and social distancing, get a lot of ventilators, and protect the economy and try to minimize damage of the virus.

B is only acceptable after enough testing gives health officials a map of hot and cool spots.

 

[MJSooner]

B is only acceptable after enough testing gives health officials a map of hot and cool spots.

And B is the way South Korea was able to manage their situation, with heavy, heavy testing. They were able to isolate and restrict those individuals with positive testing, even publishing those positive tests and hot spots to the public

We are a long way from that as doctors and hospitals are basically telling those with mild symptoms to stay home because they don't have enough tests. The treatment is the same with a positive test or a suspected case anyway.

Until we get a post-care treatment drug to the public and mass testing to "anybody that wants a test can get a test" my guess is we will continue to see restrictions and shutdowns.