MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

[Soonerb98]

Sorry for double post

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Absolutely laughable. Look at rosters across the country right now. Tell me how many players are playing for schools and/or coaches who recruited them for years and years. Maybe some guys transfer to a school that recruited them a bit out of high school, but for the most part, guys get in the portal, they are contacted by a bunch of schools, and within a few weeks, they choose a new home. I’m sure that wasn’t how it worked when you coached at a lower level, but that’s how it is in the D-1 sandbox these days.

And you can call ISU and KSU outliers, but I’ve cited many others. But I could cite 100 and you’d just come up with an excuse for why they had it easier than poor Moser.

And I’m glad we weren’t that bad last season. I guess my non-coaching eyes are what fooled me into thinking that a team that didn’t win consecutive games after mid-December and looked like garbage more often than not for the final 10 weeks was not good. But hey, we beat Bama!

Also, when do most college basketball coaches get hired? I’ve seen this point made numerous times and don’t get it. College teams never hire a new coach during the season. It always happens in about a two or three week period in March and early April. The reason Moser was in the later stage of that period is because Lon had our team playing into the second round of the tournament … and therefore in better position than most programs who are looking for a new coach. And if it takes years and years and years to build relationships and recruit, does it really matter that he was hired a couple weeks later than some guys?

What is laughable is your blatant lack of recruiting knowledge. First, my point about recruiting taking months or even years is recruiting high school kids. They are building those relationships early (FR/SO years and on). When it comes to the portal you keep ranting about "so and so does it successfully" then turn around when people point out NIL being a factor then making excuses for the fact it "can't possibly be" because this school or that school couldn't pony up more than us.

Even before NIL, unless you were under a rock, coaches like Rick Pitino, Sean Miller and Bill Self were on the hook for cheating and paying players. I got word directly from a HIGH major D1 assistant from a national championship team that guys like Coach K were getting their hands dirty too. Just the facts of the game. Now NIL comes along and legalizes some of that stuff and you can't fathom that a school like KSU, ISU, WVU or others would be more willing to pay guys more than OU. Worse, you can't take your jaded glasses off long enough to realize that it isn't ALL Moser's fault that OU isn't in the mix for some of these guys partly because of the NIL factor. If we want those top tier guys you want we aren't getting them just because of an open starting spot.....you think those guys forking over $$$$$ aren't telling them they will likely start at their place?

The fact that you can't separate being competitive and just being a terrible team (which OU was very mediocre this year, especially in close games and most of that falls on Moser) just lets me know your lack of sports knowledge.
There is a discernible difference between being a terrible team and being a competitive but inconsistent team.

 

[WTSooner]

If one accepts the notion that NIL has transformed the game and roster management, it's impossible to say whether it takes 5 years to turn around a program at this point, because the NIL era is less than 5 years old. There is no data to directly test that assertion. The fact that many teams are turning over 50% of the roster or more every year does imply that it can be done quicker from a talent perspective. How culture is impacted and the relative importance of culture vs talent in building a winning program is an open question. My gut says that coaches better start learning to build culture in less than 5 years if they want to be successful, but that's just my guess.

All that aside, citing things all coaches face,like the portal and covid, is a poor explanation for the disappointing results of the short Moser era at OU. I only hope we're not grasping at these same straws next year, but time will tell

I would say the proof that it doesn't take 5 years is two-fold:

1. We've seen a NUMBER of schools show immediate success if they hired the right guy. KSU and ISU are the two examples that hit closest to home.

2. Common sense. With so many guys entering the portal each year, talented guys, it's obviously much easier to supplement your roster. Miss on a key HS kid? Go find somebody in the Portal. Your 5th year senior starting 4 decides to play closer to home? Go find somebody in the Portal. One of your recruits from the prior year not really developing like you had hoped? Go find somebody in the Portal.

I know it's not quite that simple, but it kind of is. You still have to be an attractive place to play.

 

[Sooner Season]

First year Covid. Took Kruger kids by default. Looking back. Not big 12 players. (In his system). His fault. Zoom sucks. No visits. Sucks.

I think even though 7-11. That first year. Maybe should’ve been in. If I remember correctly. Resume solid. (Could be wrong)

Year 2 snowballed. Had some great wins and horrible losses.

I think this year is better. I think ncaa tournament team.

Year 4 is do or die. His 4th year at LC started his run. He is a system. Culture guy. Similar to BV. But at the end of the day. Gotta produce.
Ou basketball isn’t Ou football.

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key to your thoughts is "this year is better. I think ncaa tournament team." What if it isn't better, just more of the same or even worse? Do you still give him a fourth year?

 

[WichitaSooner]

What is laughable is your blatant lack of recruiting knowledge. First, my point about recruiting taking months or even years is recruiting high school kids. They are building those relationships early (FR/SO years and on). When it comes to the portal you keep ranting about "so and so does it successfully" then turn around when people point out NIL being a factor then making excuses for the fact it "can't possibly be" because this school or that school couldn't pony up more than us.

Even before NIL, unless you were under a rock, coaches like Rick Pitino, Sean Miller and Bill Self were on the hook for cheating and paying players. I got word directly from a HIGH major D1 assistant from a national championship team that guys like Coach K were getting their hands dirty too. Just the facts of the game. Now NIL comes along and legalizes some of that stuff and you can't fathom that a school like KSU, ISU, WVU or others would be more willing to pay guys more than OU. Worse, you can't take your jaded glasses off long enough to realize that it isn't ALL Moser's fault that OU isn't in the mix for some of these guys partly because of the NIL factor. If we want those top tier guys you want we aren't getting them just because of an open starting spot.....you think those guys forking over $$$$$ aren't telling them they will likely start at their place?

The fact that you can't separate being competitive and just being a terrible team (which OU was very mediocre this year, especially in close games and most of that falls on Moser) just lets me know your lack of sports knowledge.
There is a discernible difference between being a terrible team and being a competitive but inconsistent team.

Please keep preaching to me about your coaching and recruiting knowledge. I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned that you coached before. And I heard from a friend who has a cousin who used to date a DOBO at a high major that everyone in America cheats and pays millions in NIL. Except OU.

I don’t believe for a single second that NIL had a thing to do with KSU’s immediate turnaround. Maybe they will start forking over money now, but last offseason, they had a first-year coach who had never been a head coach anywhere, and he brought in a lot of players who weren’t exactly highly coveted.

16, 27, 10, 32, 10, 23, 11, 16. I won’t make you guess what those are. They are the margins of some of our conference losses last year. So I’m almost half our conference games, we lost by double digits, and that doesn’t include the final game, where we lost by 8 but couldn’t get to 50 and were never legitimately in the game against OSU. So if that’s your idea of being competitive, I don’t know what to say. Sure, we lost/blew some close, early season games. But we got boat raced more in the final several weeks than should ever happen. Were we the 300th best team in the country? Of course not. But for a P5 team, with an experienced roster, we were pretty embarrassing.

 

[TINY]

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key to your thoughts is "this year is better. I think ncaa tournament team." What if it isn't better, just more of the same or even worse? Do you still give him a fourth year?

OU isn’t going to buy out his contract within the next 2 years in my opinion. Ou is already losing its big12 revenue this year so they are pinching Pennies. I don’t see any donor stepping up and forking over $3 million to send him packing either. That money would be better used on NIL for the athletic department.

 

[Sooner04]

I'm as down on the program as I've been since Capel's last year. This is seven straight seasons on the "at or under .500/7th place Big 12 finish" merry go-round. Feels like there's no end in sight.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Please keep preaching to me about your coaching and recruiting knowledge. I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned that you coached before. And I heard from a friend who has a cousin who used to date a DOBO at a high major that everyone in America cheats and pays millions in NIL. Except OU.

I don’t believe for a single second that NIL had a thing to do with KSU’s immediate turnaround. Maybe they will start forking over money now, but last offseason, they had a first-year coach who had never been a head coach anywhere, and he brought in a lot of players who weren’t exactly highly coveted.

16, 27, 10, 32, 10, 23, 11, 16. I won’t make you guess what those are. They are the margins of some of our conference losses last year. So I’m almost half our conference games, we lost by double digits, and that doesn’t include the final game, where we lost by 8 but couldn’t get to 50 and were never legitimately in the game against OSU. So if that’s your idea of being competitive, I don’t know what to say. Sure, we lost/blew some close, early season games. But we got boat raced more in the final several weeks than should ever happen. Were we the 300th best team in the country? Of course not. But for a P5 team, with an experienced roster, we were pretty embarrassing.

1. I didn't mention coaching in college in that whole post moron. I said I heard directly from a national champion assistant. I didn't know him from coaching. He was a coaching mentor of a very close fiend of mine.

2. If you don't believe KSU's turnaround had anything to do with NIL you are just plain dumb.

https://1350kman.com/2022/10/how-kansas-states-nil-plan-is-keeping-the-wildcats-competitive/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtIhCSWUFdk (KSU guy but taling about how NIL has affected college basketball more than college football)

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/these-are-the-biggest-and-coolest-nil-deals-in-college-basketball/ (hint: one is Keyontae Johnson) - you may say this has nothing to do with KSU but they likely helped set it up

From a NIL article:

A recent story published by On3 discussed the dollar amounts collectives are providing for basketball rosters. According to NIL experts, players with high demand are,

often hoping the players will sign agreements worth $250,000 to $400,000 per year, with some of the most in-demand players hoping to earn at least half a million dollars.
How much money is being thrown around? According to an NIL expert, for some programs the total roster amounts are huge.

the biggest pots are in the $3 to $4 million range. There are probably five to 10 programs that have, you know, $2.5 million-plus for basketball.
To just compete in the current world of annual roster management, a program with championship aspirations must be able to offer at least a couple of million dollars. What Alabama provides is not known, nor has it been estimated publically.

Maybe try opening your blind eye before making yourself look stupid

 

[Maverick008]

I don’t believe for a single second that NIL had a thing to do with KSU’s immediate turnaround. Maybe they will start forking over money now, but last offseason, they had a first-year coach who had never been a head coach anywhere, and he brought in a lot of players who weren’t exactly highly coveted.

We will see how well KSU does this year without the two best players from last year and the MAIN reason they won a lot of their games.

Nowell (Bruce Weber recruit)- 17.6 pts and 8.3 ast per game
Johnson (prized portal pick up last year- Johnson was available for Tang due to his medical history- a lot of programs weren't sure how all of that was going to work out. Tang took a chance and it paid off.- 17.4 pts and 6.8 rbs per game

Yes KSU has added quality pieces on paper especially the guard from UNT that avg around 17 a game last year BUT has a lot of posters on this board have mentioned, UNT does not play the competition game in and game out that the Big 12 offers. Can he do it in this league? Sure but will he is a question mark.

Don't forget that even after the portal last year KSU was picked to finish last in the league. We will see how not having his main two guys affects their ability to finish close games as well given Nowell or Johnson was the guy for them last year. I would step out on a limb (given both of them get drafted) and say KSU doesn't have anything close to two NBA players on next years roster.

 

[skyvue]

OU isn’t going to buy out his contract within the next 2 years in my opinion. Ou is already losing its big12 revenue this year so they are pinching Pennies. I don’t see any donor stepping up and forking over $3 million to send him packing either. That money would be better used on NIL for the athletic department.

Then one might ask why they've given him at least one extension. I'm not saying he'll never deserve one, but after last season? I think it would have been more prudent to say, "Let's see how the next couple of seasons go, then perhaps we'll consider an extension." If the buyout is a problem, extensions just make that hole deeper.

 

[WTSooner]

We will see how well KSU does this year without the two best players from last year and the MAIN reason they won a lot of their games.

Nowell (Bruce Weber recruit)- 17.6 pts and 8.3 ast per game
Johnson (prized portal pick up last year- Johnson was available for Tang due to his medical history- a lot of programs weren't sure how all of that was going to work out. Tang took a chance and it paid off.- 17.4 pts and 6.8 rbs per game

Yes KSU has added quality pieces on paper especially the guard from UNT that avg around 17 a game last year BUT has a lot of posters on this board have mentioned, UNT does not play the competition game in and game out that the Big 12 offers. Can he do it in this league? Sure but will he is a question mark.

Don't forget that even after the portal last year KSU was picked to finish last in the league. We will see how not having his main two guys affects their ability to finish close games as well given Nowell or Johnson was the guy for them last year. I would step out on a limb (given both of them get drafted) and say KSU doesn't have anything close to two NBA players on next years roster.

The question isn't "is KSU going to be as good next season as they were last season." The question is "are they going to fall off to the bottom of the Big 12 and miss the NCAA Tourney, or will they still be a good team that easily goes Dancing?"

I'd bet on the latter.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

The question isn't "is KSU going to be as good next season as they were last season." The question is "are they going to fall off to the bottom of the Big 12 and miss the NCAA Tourney, or will they still be a good team that easily goes Dancing?"

I'd bet on the latter.

I'd bet on them staying competitive. They have done a solid job in the portal again.

 

[steverocks35]

Then one might ask why they've given him at least one extension. I'm not saying he'll never deserve one, but after last season? I think it would have been more prudent to say, "Let's see how the next couple of seasons go, then perhaps we'll consider an extension." If the buyout is a problem, extensions just make that hole deeper.

Thank you, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[TEvans4Three]

16, 27, 10, 32, 10, 23, 11, 16. I won’t make you guess what those are. They are the margins of some of our conference losses last year. So I’m almost half our conference games, we lost by double digits, and that doesn’t include the final game, where we lost by 8 but couldn’t get to 50 and were never legitimately in the game against OSU. So if that’s your idea of being competitive, I don’t know what to say. Sure, we lost/blew some close, early season games. But we got boat raced more in the final several weeks than should ever happen. Were we the 300th best team in the country? Of course not. But for a P5 team, with an experienced roster, we were pretty embarrassing.

Glad we didn't show the full data here, just heavy negatives, but that is pretty typical with your narrative. You can't just fluff over the close games and point out the 8 double digit losses out of a 32 game schedule which was the #2 SOS in the country.

Overall Point Differential - (-6 out of 32 games, -0.1875 ppg differential)
Top 25 Point Differential - (-84 total out of 13 games, -6.46 ppg differential)
In Conference - (-130 total out of 19 games -6.84 ppg differential)
Top 10 Point Diff - (-6 total out of 5 games. -1.2 ppg differential)

Yes, we had some bad losses, but we were also competitive vs some of the highest level of competition we had. Bama and one KU game cancel each-other out since you do not like the Bama game being brought up.

I do think it is funny, we definitely started to tank at the end, but the fact that we only had 2 double digit losses in the first 19 games, shows our team was competitive. Heck, even just the first 7 conference games of the season we were competitive with only 1 double digit loss.

Then we went 11 games with only 1 double digit contest (win and loss) nothing close. Definitely a shift in mindset/results here.

Clearly we lost some momentum (Post Baylor game) and losing those close games was a dagger to the season and heart of the team. But to just say we were not competitive and cherry-picking our double digit losses does not paint the full picture.

Also, I am not saying I am happy with the results, just showing the full picture of the season. We were competitive the first 19 games of the year, then it sucked. Then Bama, then sucked. Then maybe some hope?! Then sucked.

Team Scoring Margin
Texas 10.1
Kansas 7.4
Baylor 6.8
TCU 6.8
KSU 6.3
WVU 5.1
ISU 5
TT 4.3
OSU 2.4
OU 0.1

*According to WarrenNolan (Div-I opp only)

 

[Eielson]

Then one might ask why they've given him at least one extension. I'm not saying he'll never deserve one, but after last season? I think it would have been more prudent to say, "Let's see how the next couple of seasons go, then perhaps we'll consider an extension." If the buyout is a problem, extensions just make that hole deeper.

If they gave him an extension after this past season, then that's news to me.

 

[WTSooner]

Glad we didn't show the full data here, just heavy negatives, but that is pretty typical with your narrative. You can't just fluff over the close games and point out the 8 double digit losses out of a 32 game schedule which was the #2 SOS in the country.

Overall Point Differential - (-6 out of 32 games, -0.1875 ppg differential)
Top 25 Point Differential - (-84 total out of 13 games, -6.46 ppg differential)
In Conference - (-130 total out of 19 games -6.84 ppg differential)
Top 10 Point Diff - (-6 total out of 5 games. -1.2 ppg differential)

Yes, we had some bad losses, but we were also competitive vs some of the highest level of competition we had. Bama and one KU game cancel each-other out since you do not like the Bama game being brought up.

I do think it is funny, we definitely started to tank at the end, but the fact that we only had 2 double digit losses in the first 19 games, shows our team was competitive. Heck, even just the first 7 conference games of the season we were competitive with only 1 double digit loss.

Then we went 11 games with only 1 double digit contest (win and loss) nothing close. Definitely a shift in mindset/results here.

Clearly we lost some momentum (Post Baylor game) and losing those close games was a dagger to the season and heart of the team. But to just say we were not competitive and cherry-picking our double digit losses does not paint the full picture.

Also, I am not saying I am happy with the results, just showing the full picture of the season. We were competitive the first 19 games of the year, then it sucked. Then Bama, then sucked. Then maybe some hope?! Then sucked.

Team Scoring Margin
Texas 10.1
Kansas 7.4
Baylor 6.8
TCU 6.8
KSU 6.3
WVU 5.1
ISU 5
TT 4.3
OSU 2.4
OU 0.1

*According to WarrenNolan (Div-I opp only)

We lost to Sam Houston and narrowly beat South Alabama in our first four games. I wouldn't call that starting strong.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

We lost to Sam Houston and narrowly beat South Alabama in our first four games. I wouldn't call that starting strong.

I'm pretty convinced that WTSooner is Wichita's burner account


numbers mean nothing unless you two are pointing out a negative.....otherwise we revert back to "we suck" "we weren't that good" blah blah blah.

None of the close losses matter at all when someone points out we were competitive for most of the year....but a few bad games (and yes we had plenty) show that we were completely awful and not competitive.

I'm going to try not to argue with you....eventually I'll see some sunshine from you guys. Likely not but hopefully at some point.

 

[StoopsBros]

[TWEET] https://twitter.com/briannnnf/status/1659568567040241665[/TWEET]

 

[WichitaSooner]

I'm pretty convinced that WTSooner is Wichita's burner account


numbers mean nothing unless you two are pointing out a negative.....otherwise we revert back to "we suck" "we weren't that good" blah blah blah.

None of the close losses matter at all when someone points out we were competitive for most of the year....but a few bad games (and yes we had plenty) show that we were completely awful and not competitive.

I'm going to try not to argue with you....eventually I'll see some sunshine from you guys. Likely not but hopefully at some point.

WT and I have disagreed plenty over the years. You just lump everyone who isn't a Moser fan together and call us negative and haters, etc.

And yes, when you get absolutely rolled in a third of your games against good competition, that is awful.

 

[steverocks35]

WT and I have disagreed plenty over the years. You just lump everyone who isn't a Moser fan together and call us negative and haters, etc.

And yes, when you get absolutely rolled in a third of your games against good competition, that is awful.

How can argue that we had any kind of competitive season last year? Wow