Non OU Big 12 Game Thread

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Some people don't find it necessary to quantify the obvious.

Code for "facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts."

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Doesn't have to be a guard.... and there are about 7-8 players committed to OU or playing for OU that I would take Bandoo over.



Bandoo averages 11ppg in conference, and is a 47% 3pt shooter in Big 12 play.

Miles Reynolds averages 4.5ppg in conference, and is a 20% 3pt shooter.

The quality difference between the two is not even comparable. Also, Bandoo, like a lot of juco players, is getting better as they adjust to the speed of the game. Miles Reynolds is a 5th year senior who is done getting better, and has proven he isn't even a Big 12 player.

Bandoo will likely be a 13-14ppg player for Baylor next year, and one of the better shooters in the Big 12. The guy is hitting damn near 50% of this 3s against the best competition.



This board regularly discusses Kelvin Sampson. He hasn't coached here in like 15 years. And, I would mention that the discussion about this isn't particularly just about a single player... Its about the recruiting failures of Capel and Kruger, and is a philosophical debate about how OU should be recruiting. Bandoo is a specific example of that, but that is really what is being discussed.... is the recruiting strategy and philosophy of the current regime.



Bandoo is a two year player. And, you would probably be surprised by how most freshman perform.

Bandoo (Big 12)
Bandoo averages 11ppg in conference, and is a 47% 3pt shooter in Big 12 play.

Bienemy (Big 12)
4 points, 3 assists, 2 rebounds per game in Big 12 play. 39% 3pt shooter.

Devon Dotson (Kansas - Big 12)
-13 ppg, 42% 3pt shooter.

Quentin Grimes (Kansas - Big 12)
6.9 points per game on 31% 3pt shooting

Kendric Davis (TCU - Big 12)
7.5ppg on 33% 3pt shooting

These are just some examples of immediate impact of some players... I have no doubt Bienemy, Dotson, Grimes, Davis, etc are going to have incredible careers... but freshman are often freshman for most teams not named Kentucky, Duke, etc.

Quentin Grimes was the #8 player in the nation... Devon Dotson was the #20 player in the nation. Kendric Davis was a 5 star player. Bienemy was highly rated coming out Texas.

OU absolutely needs Jamal Bienemy... Brady Manek... Kristian Doolittle, etc... But we don't need these bizarre recruits when we could fill the other gaps with guys who can help you right now.

Think about it... a freaking juco transfer is out-performing the #8 player in the country out of high school, significantly. Grimes is going to probably be a monster in the future, but THIS YEAR he is not performing well as a junior college transfer from Kansas that nobody wanted until April of last year. Bienemy is good and I know he will have a GREAT career at OU, but Bandoo is significantly more valuable than he is RIGHT NOW, this year.

Yet... the question being asked on this forum is "why wouldn't you rather have Victor Iwuokar, Anyang Garang, etc for next year"..... because I would bet money those guys average like 2ppg next year and need multiple years to develop. Go get guys that can help you win and fill roles RIGHT NOW.

If our staff took Mason Jones and Bandoo instead of Lazenby and Miles Reynolds.... Its a 25 win team instead of a 17 win team. Its not a difference in 10 seed vs 9 seed... Its THAT drastic of a difference.

I don't know that our staff even thinks about that when they sign guys like Polla, Kuath, Freeman, McNease, Miles Reynolds, Ty Lazenby, etc.... "Is this guy going to help us AT ALL next year"... If they are considering that, they are the worst talent evaluators in history.



I am not exhausted at all. Posting on a message board doesn't take a whole lot out of me. Maybe I am younger than you?

Have it your way. Bandoo is better than any incoming OU recruit and would easily be the best player on this year's team. More importantly, you're smarter than all of the coaches. If more people listened to you, we'd all be smarter and OU would win the conference every year.

I really thought we were done with this idiocy several months ago. It was bad enough when every thread here for about 3 months was just polluted with various versions of "the coaching staff is a bunch of idiots. We need more JUCO players. Bandoo, Bandoo, Bandoo...(And Austin Trice, but I digress). But now we're back here again -- and doubtless will be the entire off-season as well -- bc OU's season won't finish the way most of us hoped it would. Needless to say when Bandoo was putting out 3 pt, 3 foul games in close Baylor losses we didn't hear from you.

The last thing I'll say on this mess and you can go back to bloviating about your great JUCO sensations is that you have absolutely lost your mind if you think this team is 8 wins better w Bandoo than Reynolds. That is ludicrous and indefensible. He doesn't even start for the 5th or 6th best team in the conference and he averages 1.5 PPG more than Reynolds. If you think he would make OU a 25 win team you are out of your mind. But keep doing this bc it didn't get old when you did it all day every day for 4 months and it's going to be just as entertaining to the few who remain here as you do it again every day for the next 4 months.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

For all the 20/20 hindsight guys, how is Austin Trice doing? He was another juco who was mentioned on this board and was considered a prize. Would folks be cartwheeling if we got him?

This debate reminds me of baseball fans who overreact when a guy is hitting .500, or on the other hand, .100 a week into the season. Right now it's easy to say Bandoo would look great in an OU uniform. Let's make that assessment in three or four years after we see what Harmon, JB, Hill, and Williams have done. Remember, there was talk on here a month into last season about whether Manek would be here four years before heading to the NBA. Making grand conclusions based on a handful of good games is never a good plan.

And not one person would have said that in December when Reynolds was playing extremely well & Bandoo could barely get on the court. Well, 1 person would have.

 

[Max Power]

Waller-Babb from isu just had to be helped off the court. Texas up 13 late in the first half

 

[thebigabd]

And not one person would have said that in December when Reynolds was playing extremely well & Bandoo could barely get on the court. Well, 1 person would have.

You can't be serious.... Reynolds has been a low-level D1 player for 5 years, so when you play non-conference games against scrub low level teams, it makes sense that he did ok. Bandoo (and Bienemy, for that matter) are new to D1 basketball, and go through a pretty standard warm-up period.

With Bandoo averaging 11-12 ppg in Big 12 play and being one of the best shooters in the conference, its clear that Bandoo has adjusted to Big 12 play on an NCAA Tournament team while Miles Reynolds showed his true colors. He had another whopping 2 points today and is shooting 6% from the 3pt line in Big 12 play. I am not kidding..... 1-16 from the 3pt line in Big 12 play.


You can't honestly be saying we are pretty much just the same with Reynolds, a 6% 3pt shooter who can't even score against Big 12 competition as a guy who is shooting 47% from 3 and getting better every game.

The last thing I'll say on this mess and you can go back to bloviating about your great JUCO sensations is that you have absolutely lost your mind if you think this team is 8 wins better w Bandoo than Reynolds. That is ludicrous and indefensible. He doesn't even start for the 5th or 6th best team in the conference and he averages 1.5 PPG more than Reynolds. If you think he would make OU a 25 win team you are out of your mind. But keep doing this bc it didn't get old when you did it all day every day for 4 months and it's going to be just as entertaining to the few who remain here as you do it again every day for the next 4 months.

This is just pure lunacy.... But to be fair, since you won't be, I said if OU had Mason Jones and Devonte Bandoo instead of Miles Reynolds and Ty Lazenby (or insert one of the 5 others who literally can't play at this level) that OU would be a 25 win team this year. I stand by that.

But I digress..... You guys clearly just don't agree and for some reason can't stand that someone is stating relevant opinions.

 

[sheepdogs1]

^ But their models prove otherwise. Too much glue?

 

[WichitaSooner]

You can't be serious.... Reynolds has been a low-level D1 player for 5 years, so when you play non-conference games against scrub low level teams, it makes sense that he did ok. Bandoo (and Bienemy, for that matter) are new to D1 basketball, and go through a pretty standard warm-up period.

With Bandoo averaging 11-12 ppg in Big 12 play and being one of the best shooters in the conference, its clear that Bandoo has adjusted to Big 12 play on an NCAA Tournament team while Miles Reynolds showed his true colors. He had another whopping 2 points today and is shooting 6% from the 3pt line in Big 12 play. I am not kidding..... 1-16 from the 3pt line in Big 12 play.


You can't honestly be saying we are pretty much just the same with Reynolds, a 6% 3pt shooter who can't even score against Big 12 competition as a guy who is shooting 47% from 3 and getting better every game.



This is just pure lunacy.... But to be fair, since you won't be, I said if OU had Mason Jones and Devonte Bandoo instead of Miles Reynolds and Ty Lazenby (or insert one of the 5 others who literally can't play at this level) that OU would be a 25 win team this year. I stand by that.

But I digress..... You guys clearly just don't agree and for some reason can't stand that someone is stating relevant opinions.

Jones doesn't start for a 14-14 team, shoots under 40 percent from the floor, and 33 percent from three. But he and Bandoo would add 6-7 wins and give us a better record than all but a few power conference teams? Man I want some of what you're smoking lol. On second thought, I definitely don't!

 

[thebigabd]

Jones doesn't start for a 14-14 team, shoots under 40 percent from the floor, and 33 percent from three. But he and Bandoo would add 6-7 wins and give us a better record than all but a few power conference teams? Man I want some of what you're smoking lol. On second thought, I definitely don't!

I really don't like this being contentious, by the way. If its not, and just good discussion, that is fine, but it is not my intent to fight with anyone on the forum.

But you did not represent Mason Jones fairly at all... He averages 14ppg, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists per game. Those are VERY good stats for a first year player, ANYWHERE.

And, he has started 26 games this year and averages 30.6 minutes per game. So what you said wasn't even remotely true.

He had 11 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists against Texas in his first college game...
16/4/4 against Colorado State
30 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists against Florida
22 points and 6 rebounds against LSU
18 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists against #1 Tennessee
23 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists against Georgia
30 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists against Mississippi State
22 points, including 6-8 from 3, last night against Ole Miss

I mean.. Miles Reynolds, Ty Lazenby, Kur Kuath, Hannes Polla, Matt Freeman, etc are literally not even close to capable of this. I'd be stunned if Devion Harmon was capable of that in his first year next season...

He is a legitimately good player... and, back to the original point, if OU made simple efforts to recruit local talent Jones and Bandoo would be wearing crimson... and I stand by the comment that with these two players instead of two non-contributors that OU would be a 25 win team.

To be fair... OSU screwed up just as badly.

 

[thebigabd]

Last question on this for the people opposed to what I am saying.....

If OU didn't recruit or offer Brady Manek, Kristian Doolittle, Buddy Hield (he was from Wichita, KS), etc would you consider that a failure from the staff? If Doolittle never received an OU offer and was performing well at Colorado, KSU, etc, would there be warranted criticism?... Same thing for Manek, Bookout, and MANY others...

Would you (we, us, etc) be considering that a failure of recruiting regional and local talent? Would it be considered acceptable?

Trae Young and Blake Griffin were more obvious... they were McDonalds All-Americans that were highly sought after.

 

[152219]

Last question on this for the people opposed to what I am saying.....

If OU didn't recruit or offer Brady Manek, Kristian Doolittle, Buddy Hield (he was from Wichita, KS), etc would you consider that a failure from the staff? If Doolittle never received an OU offer and was performing well at Colorado, KSU, etc, would there be warranted criticism?... Same thing for Manek, Bookout, and MANY others...

Would you (we, us, etc) be considering that a failure of recruiting regional and local talent? Would it be considered acceptable?

Trae Young and Blake Griffin were more obvious... they were McDonalds All-Americans that were highly sought after.

My issue is that you continuously play the hindsight game and don’t mention other teams’ misses. Yes, Kruger has missed a bit too often recently and the player development can be questioned since the Final Four year. But, the biggest issue (well, it is likely a positive if you want to look at it) is that Kruger isn’t going to play the recruiting game and use shoe companies to snag OU players. Granted, nothing is going to happen to KU, Zona, etc, which is complete garbage.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I really don't like this being contentious, by the way. If its not, and just good discussion, that is fine, but it is not my intent to fight with anyone on the forum.

But you did not represent Mason Jones fairly at all... He averages 14ppg, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists per game. Those are VERY good stats for a first year player, ANYWHERE.

And, he has started 26 games this year and averages 30.6 minutes per game. So what you said wasn't even remotely true.

He had 11 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists against Texas in his first college game...
16/4/4 against Colorado State
30 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists against Florida
22 points and 6 rebounds against LSU
18 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists against #1 Tennessee
23 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists against Georgia
30 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists against Mississippi State
22 points, including 6-8 from 3, last night against Ole Miss

I mean.. Miles Reynolds, Ty Lazenby, Kur Kuath, Hannes Polla, Matt Freeman, etc are literally not even close to capable of this. I'd be stunned if Devion Harmon was capable of that in his first year next season...

He is a legitimately good player... and, back to the original point, if OU made simple efforts to recruit local talent Jones and Bandoo would be wearing crimson... and I stand by the comment that with these two players instead of two non-contributors that OU would be a 25 win team.

To be fair... OSU screwed up just as badly.

He is a high volume, low percentage shooter. We are a bad shooting team, and his shooting numbers would actually bring ours down further. And it makes no sense to compare him to guys who either don't play his position or were in a different recruiting class. Now, would he help us more than Reynolds? Perhaps, although as has been pointed out, Reynolds was a huge factor in a couple wins early in the season. And as bad as his offense has become, he still is valuable defensively. I have no clue about Jones's defense, but it's worth thinking about.

As for Harmon, that's an apple to oranges argument. Harmon's role will be to play the point and run the team, so simply looking at scoring numbers is an inadequate way to assess the value he will bring next year.

 

[WTSooner]

My issue is that you continuously play the hindsight game and don’t mention other teams’ misses.

It's not really hindsight when most of the guys he discusses are guys he brought up during the previous recruiting season as guys we should be looking at.

 

[WTSooner]

And I can see some are now starting to hedge on Harmon already. Nice. lol

 

[WichitaSooner]

And I can see some are now starting to hedge on Harmon already. Nice. lol

Who is hedging? If you are referring to me, that's on you for not understanding what I said. I'll make it clear... Harmon will be a better player than Jones.

And the reason people mention hindsight is because he throws out tons of names in advance, but then only bothers mentioning the two or three that pan out. I still haven't heard any response to whether any of the JUCO crowd is sad we didn't land Trice, who played about as much as I did this year until KSU lost several guys to injuries and fouls.

 

[152219]

It's not really hindsight when most of the guys he discusses are guys he brought up during the previous recruiting season as guys we should be looking at.

He brings up dozens of guys. Not all of them pan out.

 

[Eielson]

Why are we talking about Harmon? If he'd drawn his recruitment out and not committed to us so early he'd have offers from almost every school in the country. Even Team USA offered him a spot.

 

[WTSooner]

He brings up dozens of guys. Not all of them pan out.

Dozens?

LOL. No he doesn't.

You want to test him, ask him who he thinks OU should recruit this year and we can check back in a year.

 

[sperry]

KSU could virtually lock out Kansas with a win @ TCU tonight. Let's hope they do so.

 

[thebigabd]

KSU could virtually lock out Kansas with a win @ TCU tonight. Let's hope they do so.

TCU is tanking hard... should be a KSU victory.

 

[hoopsaustin]

KSU could virtually lock out Kansas with a win @ TCU tonight. Let's hope they do so.

Anyone. But. Kansas.