OU v. TX (Jan 9)

[Sooner81]

I attend lots of High School games in the DFW area and try to watch players that are nationally ranked. As I have previously stated there have been only a few times in the last 8 to 10 years that I have seen a member of the OU coaching staff in attendance. Odyssey Sims, Alexis Jones and now Sara Andrews all from Irving MacArthur and no OU coaches. Only rarely do I see them at Duncanville, Cedar Hill, Lincoln, Madison, the Plano schools, Flower Mound, Allen, Dunbar, Argyle, Argyle Christian, Prestonwood Baptist and others. In the last 10 years these above high schools alone have sent over 35 players to major Division One Schools. The annual list of girls in the entire DFW area signing with various Colleges is 50 to 60 with about half being with Division One schools. This is always in the Dallas Morning News.

I do see coaches from UConn, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Louisville, Stanford, most of the Big 12 and SEC schools. It is no surprise that Texas A&M, Texas and of course Baylor are everywhere recruiting in this area. The Oklahoma State coaches are frequent observers as well.

Where are the Sooners? If we get the three best players in Oklahoma every year we are nowhere. I takes me three hours to drive to Norman from north Dallas. It should be the same for our staff to come here. It seems almost every year 10 to 15 of the Top 100 players are in Texas, why not place an emphasis on recruiting Texas? If we got just two of the top 10 to 15 players from Texas most years we would be much better off.

I don’t want SC fired or to cut her pay, just hire two aggressive assistant coaches, that’s what Baylor did 6 years ago, so did Texas. Hiring her son was not SC at her best, not well thought out. I don’t want a new head coach, just two new assistants with big personalities that are motivated.

Our focus should also be on Kansas City and other metro areas where girls basketball is big and not too far away in driving distance.

I’m not interested in OU football, history, or other weak excuses for lack of recent success. As someone in the locker room for 4 years, there were no problems with players from different backgrounds. My teams were good, but not great, we overachieved, but that was because of SC. SC sold me and I never regretted going to OU, she is a terrific person, I love her. However, there needs to be a substantial change in recruiting, now, for the future of the program. Our freshman may have some promise, but to be really competitive in the Big 12 we need to improve much more.

As a former player I am not happy with the current status of our program, are you?

Thanks 66 it’s nice to hear from someone who actually knows, that lived the basketball life at OU and under SC. Many of us have been saying this and it’s nice to get confirmation from someone inside rather than someone just sitting behind a computer typing their opinions that are a pure Guess.

 

[soonermike22]

Thanks 66 it’s nice to hear from someone who actually knows, that lived the basketball life at OU and under SC. Many of us have been saying this and it’s nice to get confirmation from someone inside rather than someone just sitting behind a computer typing their opinions that are a pure Guess.

Ditto
Appreciate everyones input. Their are decent players out there but you have to work for them, and OU appears to be lax in doing that

 

[sybarite]

I attend lots of High School games in the DFW area and try to watch players that are nationally ranked. As I have previously stated there have been only a few times in the last 8 to 10 years that I have seen a member of the OU coaching staff in attendance. Odyssey Sims, Alexis Jones and now Sara Andrews all from Irving MacArthur and no OU coaches. Only rarely do I see them at Duncanville, Cedar Hill, Lincoln, Madison, the Plano schools, Flower Mound, Allen, Dunbar, Argyle, Argyle Christian, Prestonwood Baptist and others. In the last 10 years these above high schools alone have sent over 35 players to major Division One Schools. The annual list of girls in the entire DFW area signing with various Colleges is 50 to 60 with about half being with Division One schools. This is always in the Dallas Morning News.

I do see coaches from UConn, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Louisville, Stanford, most of the Big 12 and SEC schools. It is no surprise that Texas A&M, Texas and of course Baylor are everywhere recruiting in this area. The Oklahoma State coaches are frequent observers as well.

Where are the Sooners? If we get the three best players in Oklahoma every year we are nowhere. I takes me three hours to drive to Norman from north Dallas. It should be the same for our staff to come here. It seems almost every year 10 to 15 of the Top 100 players are in Texas, why not place an emphasis on recruiting Texas? If we got just two of the top 10 to 15 players from Texas most years we would be much better off.

I don’t want SC fired or to cut her pay, just hire two aggressive assistant coaches, that’s what Baylor did 6 years ago, so did Texas. Hiring her son was not SC at her best, not well thought out. I don’t want a new head coach, just two new assistants with big personalities that are motivated.

Our focus should also be on Kansas City and other metro areas where girls basketball is big and not too far away in driving distance.

I’m not interested in OU football, history, or other weak excuses for lack of recent success. As someone in the locker room for 4 years, there were no problems with players from different backgrounds. My teams were good, but not great, we overachieved, but that was because of SC. SC sold me and I never regretted going to OU, she is a terrific person, I love her. However, there needs to be a substantial change in recruiting, now, for the future of the program. Our freshman may have some promise, but to be really competitive in the Big 12 we need to improve much more.

As a former player I am not happy with the current status of our program, are you?

Then, you are aware that OU has had two players each from Argyle Christian and Plano in recent years. We do have a freshman from Fort Worth.

Until very recently, DFW had not had a history of producing good players. Get a lot of highly-touted players. The top players would have included Odyssey. But, the other really highly-successful player didn't even attend school in DFW, but was home-schooled in Glenn Heights before she went to UConn and led them to four titles.

Texas and Baylor are getting a lot of good talent out of DFW. OU may have gotten the best this year with Madi Williams. But, this year, OU went back to the Houston area for Liz Scott. Tatum Veitenheimer is from the DFW area, if you stretch it a bit.

I don't know exactly what is going on in DFW. About three or four years ago, two kids about 6-9, 6-10 showed up in Lancaster and Plano, never having been to HS. Apparently, they were prep school products. Each played one year. I think both teams won their respective state championships. But, I had never heard any of the local kids mention the kid in Lancaster, and I knew the coach. I think some of that is going on in women's basketball. I don't know if Sherri wants in on that type of stuff.

About the time that OU quit being competitive for the Final Four, Jan Ross had breast cancer. Do you think there was any connection or effect on the program? Close friends. Are they not? The partnership on which the program was built suddenly had a major problem. Any comment?

The fact that the players get along in the dressing room is not the point. The point is that the reputation of Oklahoma has been declining as a state, and it is quite white. You would like to be able to attract from Chicago Whitney Young again. We have completely missed out when recruiting against the big city ghetto prospects that we have recruited in recent years.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Sherri's personal recruiting profile restricts her success with big city ghetto prospects much more than any racial issue. Today about 200 athletes or 1/3 of all athletes (walk-ons and scholarship players) in the 18 sports at OU are black athletes that are primarily from the ghetto.

With the hours necesssarily committed to the game by student-athletes their social life is primarily with fellow student-athletes. This "too white" Norman circumstance for black athletes is totally different than the mid-sixties when the black student-athlete comprised less than 5% of the athletes on campus.

Also the inter-racial social activity among students is the norm today instead being frowned upon like it was 50 years ago. Furthermore there is a 100K Afro-American population base 30 minutes from campus. Not recruiting blacks is not an issue it is an excuse. Your forte!

 

[sybarite]

Sherri's personal recruiting profile restricts her success with big city ghetto prospects much more than any racial issue. Today about 200 athletes or 1/3 of all athletes (walk-ons and scholarship players) in the 18 sports at OU are black athletes that are primarily from the ghetto.

With the hours necesssarily committed to the game by student-athletes their social life is primarily with fellow student-athletes. This "too white" Norman circumstance for black athletes is totally different than the mid-sixties when the black student-athlete comprised less than 5% of the athletes on campus.

Also the inter-racial social activity among students is the norm today instead being frowned upon like it was 50 years ago. Furthermore there is a 100K Afro-American population base 30 minutes from campus. Not recruiting blacks is not an issue it is an excuse. Your forte!

At some point, you have to understand that the basketball recruit is not the same as in other sports.

The gymnastics recruits tend to be from the Plano area or the northern suburbs. You don't see them at South Oak Cliff. Highland Park is a strong contender for the golf and soccer titles, as is Ursuline. I don't even think Lancaster, a basketball power, has a golf or soccer team, unless it is recent. Different sports are emphasized in different neighborhoods.

The young man that I brought it was not in the fifties or sixties. He was from 71 or 72. The only social life was in OKC, and that was limited.

The difficulty isn''t in dealing with the kids when they get here. Young people are more multicultural than we were. It is in getting the right kind of image to attract them. Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the greatest image right now. It is constantly cutting money for education. It's leaders are not known for being multiculltural. Had we not had Sherri, what would our attraction have been? We don't exactly attract world-beaters in men's basketball either. The last time I can remember being in the game for a really highly-rated non-Oklahoma player was Shaq, and that was some time ago.

 

[sybarite]

I think there is the impression that I am totally in Sherri's corner. I am not particularly happy with the fact that we are not challenging for Elite Eight. I don't know that blame is that easily directed.

We don't have the drawing power of a Duke, UConn, or Stanford, although I notice Duke has fallen off a lot. We just can't attract two McDonald's All-Americans per year. It really hurts when our star player tears two ACLs, as happened to both Whitney Hand and Maddie Manning. It doesn't help to lose our post to an Achilles tear. We lose two supposedly good recruits, one entire class, in Mulkey and Dungee. We don't have the numbers to be able to tolerate this and succeed. UConn lost its would-be superstar to Delaware and went on to win four titles without her. She showed in the pros how good she was. We need for everything to work to get in the top eight.

I really suspect that Jan Ross's illness had a lot more effect than has been discussed. They were best friends and built a program together. That had to have some effect.

I like what I see of the youngsters. The three sophs and six freshmen have been about as predicted. It would have been great to have had a couple of seniors around to provide stability. But, Sherri said this year's team learns faster and adapts faster than last year's team.

I'm looking forward to having Scott, Madi Williams, Ana, Taylor, Shaina, Tatum, and Gabby fighting for time. Chloe, Mandy, and Nydia will probably fight to see who starts. I just hope that Shaina doesn't get disillusioned while learning. I think Jessi will be in the mix. Aspen? With the exception of Chloe, we won't have any real height. But, we will have some competitors under the boards and a lot of talent.

 

[SoonerSpock]

At some point, you have to understand that the basketball recruit is not the same as in other sports.

The gymnastics recruits tend to be from the Plano area or the northern suburbs. You don't see them at South Oak Cliff. Highland Park is a strong contender for the golf and soccer titles, as is Ursuline. I don't even think Lancaster, a basketball power, has a golf or soccer team, unless it is recent. Different sports are emphasized in different neighborhoods.

The young man that I brought it was not in the fifties or sixties. He was from 71 or 72. The only social life was in OKC, and that was limited.

The difficulty isn''t in dealing with the kids when they get here. Young people are more multicultural than we were. It is in getting the right kind of image to attract them. Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the greatest image right now. It is constantly cutting money for education. It's leaders are not known for being multiculltural. Had we not had Sherri, what would our attraction have been? We don't exactly attract world-beaters in men's basketball either. The last time I can remember being in the game for a really highly-rated non-Oklahoma player was Shaq, and that was some time ago.

Oklahoma does not have the right image in your opinion. From years of posting on this board we know you often like to force a square peg into a round hole. This is one of those occasions.

I live in Norman after having lived in Philadephia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City and Ft. Worth where my work often took me into the ghettos frequently. I have very very close contacts to the WBB program, very close contacts to football and not so close with the MBB program. I understand the circumstances surrounding a black student athlete (BSA) coming to Norman. I suspect the time you have spent in Norman and around to OU athletic program the last 15 years is nil.

I can assure you the OU coaching and recruiting staffs of all three programs have a totally different perspective than do you regarding getting BSA prospects to Norman. They consider recruiting to Norman a big positive when targeting ghetto kids. Their history tells them they are correct. Unfortunately Sherri has a prospect profile that eliminates a major portion of the top black student-athletes from consideration by OU. That is a fact.

Once BSA's arrive in Norman they tend to stay not abandon ship because Norman is too white. You did note that the three programs that I get some inside information from are also the three programs most focused on recruiting the BSA.

Your problem is you loser mentality. Athletes are competitors with a winners mentality. Coaches must be as well. They do not look at the circumstances and make excuses for their failures as you do for Sherri. They look at the circumstances and see the opportunities for their success.

Sherri and recently fired Mike Stoops don't/didn't appear to be manifesting the attributes that promote winning and winning big. Mike had difficulties for 3 years and he is gone. Sherri has had difficulties for 8 years and we are still giving her the opportunity to fix it. Time is running short be it 2 or 3 years hence even for a HOF coach.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Oregon, Oregon State, Louisville, Mississippi State, and South Carolina didn't have the drawing power until recently. Also if you go back, Connecticut and Baylor didn't until Geno and Mulkey arrived. We used to handle Stanford consistently but they have been much stronger than we for some time now.

I watch a lot of womens basketball. I think they play a more fundamental game and most are not just auditioning for a pro career. Stanford and Oregon State sets more screens in a quarter than OU does in a season and they both win without the big super-star. And Oregon State is beginning to attract the better players. Possibly their best player (Slocum) is a transfer.

Until the post from the young lady in Texas I had little or no feel for OU recruiting. OU women's basketball recruiting is the best kept secret since the Manhattan Project (development of the A Bomb during WWII). We seem to be doing better the last two years but we possibly face the next season again without the size inside we need to compete. Hopefully I am wrong.

I am excited about our young players. Hate to see the difficulties that Ana and Pellington are experiencing.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

At some point OU's new cost-conscious president, who's already fired scores of administrators down to landscaping people, is going to begin looking at the Athletic Department.

And when he does, Sherri Coale's program is not going to fair well under that microscope. The new prez is a bottom-dollar kind of guy and even though the athletic department is self-funding, he will eventually look at the department's savings account and operating budgets to see where he can grab some money -- and the regents will let him.

He thinks OU is in financial trouble. Whether it is or not is above my pay grade. I know it wastes tons of money and its financial operating system is a mess of unparalleled magnitude.

When the look comes, what the G-Man will see is a HOF coach and a stagnant staff whose outcomes have slipped far, far from the high goals and standards they initially set. He will see a program losing millions and attendance is crap. He will see the OUWBB recent history MAY have played a sliver of a part in the recent arena project defeat etc., etc. HE WON'T CARE about record or who is in the HOF and who isn't.

He isn't going to stand for that kind of loss/disaster.

When he does move forward with a greedy eye, in a year or so probably, Sherri better hope she has created a new juggernaut -- or she's going to get fired or reassigned (reassigned is far, far more likely).

Does that mean Joe C. will be gone too? Possibly.

Sherri hasn't produced in nearly a decade. She has a base salary of at least $1.1 million plus perks and incentives. SO...she's probably has a chance to earn $1.4 to $1.75 million per year.

If you can't get motivated for that, plus your stated desire to build better people (which Sherri is certainly doing), then it's time to retire or get fired.

The bottom line is this:

THE CHICKENS HAVE STARTED THEIR WAY HOME TO ROOST.

Sherri better produce PDQ-- within three two or three years counting this season. I don't care what her record was or is. I don't care that she's the youngest coach in the HOF. I don't care that she's a Christian and takes her team to Haiti every year.

If an employee, no matter how beloved, isn't reaching the goals they and their bosses have set, then eventually they get ousted. That always happens.

Just ask Pat Summit.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

...and let me add this Joe C. and everyone loves Sherri, reportedly. Seems like with good cause.

Having met and chit-chatted with her a tiny bit, she's always seemed amazingly friendly, smart and extremely decent.

But the those same people who love Sherri also loved Mike Stoops. Until they didn't.

Mike is a nearly a somewhat good correlation to Sherri -- the only difference being Sherri is the four-star general and Mike was a three-star -- and Sherri doesn't pick her dates from OU's student population and live on four-letter words screamed at the top of her lungs.

Mike is now looking for a job after destroying his own reputation (although his personal behavior added to his downfall almost as much as his work).

While Sherri could probably get another million-dollar-job somewhere if she wanted to, it's isn't going to be as easy now as it would have been a decade ago.

She should keep that in mind, especially if any the whispered decades of talk has even a mangled iota of basis behind it.

 

[sybarite]

Oklahoma does not have the right image in your opinion. From years of posting on this board we know you often like to force a square peg into a round hole. This is one of those occasions.

I live in Norman after having lived in Philadephia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City and Ft. Worth where my work often took me into the ghettos frequently. I have very very close contacts to the WBB program, very close contacts to football and not so close with the MBB program. I understand the circumstances surrounding a black student athlete (BSA) coming to Norman. I suspect the time you have spent in Norman and around to OU athletic program the last 15 years is nil.

.

I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Racism is a reality here. believe me, but any racial problems Oklahoma has related to daily life or sports (and it does still have quite a number of major ones), they pale in comparison to what is going on in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, the Carolinas, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee and even Texas.

These problems may be less public in California, Connecticut, Oregon or Washington State, but even those states have the same tragic woes. Has anyone ever been to Pullman for crying out loud?

When you come to a place like Alabama, Georgia or Oklahoma -- as an athlete -- you aren't coming for the nightlife or because you like gravy at breakfast.

You come because you want to have the chance, the best chance possible, to play a sport professionally or to get a good education and establish the ties you need to make a good career for yourself, no matter what you do.

That's why kids want to play for OU -- it doesn't matter whether it's gymnastics, softball or golf.

No place is perfect, but even in women's basketball, the best kids want to play for a HOF coach and a program that is winning at the top level -- program where they get noticed and have a chance to make their dreams come true.

OUWBB, right now, is not one of those places and the reason is Sherri Coale and her staff. We were there once, for quite a spell, because of Sherri, but those days are gone and it is highly questionable whether she can ever make the magic happen again -- or is even willing to.

 

[sooner8693]

I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.

You have hit rock bottom or are nearing there when you have to play the race card as the reason for the decline of SC's basketball program. The fingers are pointed directly at SC and her assistants.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I lived in Norman, and I loved Norman. I loved Oklahoma. But, let me remind you of something that you ignore.

We see poll after poll that tells us that when asked whether racism has been conquered. Consistently, the white community sees very little, if any, evidence of racism. The black community sees racism as still being a problem.

If you ask about female discomfort in the workplace, the males say that there is no reason for discomfort in the workplace. The females say it is still very prevalent.

You get similar results if you ask about PC. The groups that are irritated by PC are quite different from those who want some curbs.

I kind of have the impression that we have mostly white males writing about how wonderful Oklahoma is and suggesting that there is no reason for racism to be a problem. Wonder why? Whites and blacks don't see it the same way.

My kids went to what is basically an all white HS. Most of the young people I know are black. Very different kids. Very different attitudes. When my kids played the local HS in football, their pep club put up a huge sign: Cash beats trash. Essentially, rich kids beat blacks. The principal did apologize. But, it reflected an attitude that existed in the 90s. Still does. Racism didn't arise on the SAE bus. But, it did reflect an attitude. When exactly was that? In the fifties? Oh, a couple of years ago?

No. Spock. I've been trying to get some recognition that the hole is round. The Generation X and Millennials will confirm it for you.

No problem with Generation X and Millennials. Your oblique perspective is another issue.

 

[sybarite]

No problem with Generation X and Millennials. Your oblique perspective is another issue.

I have given you an opportunity to express your ideas in detail in order to see what a coach must bring to the table. Typically, you just basically post your hatred of me and your mantra of Sherri is to blame. Life is simple when you have it so well worked out.

 

[soonermike22]

Syb, you write well, argue well, and find "facts" that seem to support your argument.
But you are way off base in this thread.

For young blacks who don't know what the 50's and 60's were like, things may seem tough for non-whites, but it is nothing like what rural Oklahoma, urban Oklahoma City, or political power in Oklahoma it once was (50's and 60's). I know and have been around many students at OU and integration is a fact. "White Oklahoma" keeping recruits away is horsefeathers.
We don't know if supervision from the AD, self motivation, or other factors have pushed wbb to work harder lately, but they seem to have recruited better prospects the last 2 years. Which also means the coaches were less than effective in evaluating/recruiting several years before that.
Eventually, poor results catch up with you. That will happen to wbb if we don't do better. Both won-loss records, and attendance indicate a problem.
My disagreement is with the way you interpret what is happening in wbb, and reasons for it. Let's keep it friendly and argue about basketball and bb related issues, not other stuff

 

[SoonerSpock]

Interesting side note to this life for blacks in Norman. I was talking today with a cousin that played basketball and ran track for OU in the mid-60's attemptiing to get a better perspective circumstances from a jock's viewpoint. At that time OKC Douglas HB Ben Hart one of the first star blacks to play for the Sooners went to Port Robertson who ran all things off field for OU athletics especially academic. Was also the wrestling coach for several years.

Anyway Ben told Port there was nothing for the black player to do socially in Norman. Port almost immediately made arrangement for a limo to take black kids that desired to go to OKC for weekly social outings. These trips went on for years but he said he had no way of knowing exactly how long.

Technically I would surmise this was a violation of student benefit rules but what was allowed by the NCAA in the mid-60's is totally different than what is permitted today. So who knows.

https://newsok.com/article/1934096/port-robertsons-tough-love-touched-many-sooners-lives

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Interesting side note to this life for blacks in Norman. I was talking today with a cousin that played basketball and ran track for OU in the mid-60's attemptiing to get a better perspective circumstances from a jock's viewpoint. At that time OKC Douglas HB Ben Hart one of the first star blacks to play for the Sooners went to Port Robertson who ran all things off field for OU athletics especially academic. Was also the wrestling coach for several years.

Anyway Ben told Port there was nothing for the black player to do socially in Norman. Port almost immediately made arrangement for a limo to take black kids that desired to go to OKC for weekly social outings. These trips went on for years but he said he had no way of knowing exactly how long.

Technically I would surmise this was a violation of student benefit rules but what was allowed by the NCAA in the mid-60's is totally different than what is permitted today. So who knows.

https://newsok.com/article/1934096/port-robertsons-tough-love-touched-many-sooners-lives

Ben Hart. My uncle (he went to Midwest City High School) tells me Ben Hart is likely the greatest high school player in Oklahoma history.

He loves to tell about the night in a game against Midwest City (MWC and Douglas were the best two teams in the state he says) when Douglas won something like 21-7. He says Ben came out at quarterback and threw a touchdown pass, later came out at wide receiver and caught a touchdown pass, and then came out as running back and ran for a touchdown.

He should have been the quarterback at OU, and might well have made all american at QB ...but that was back in the day when....well you know.

 

[sybarite]

Syb, you write well, argue well, and find "facts" that seem to support your argument.
But you are way off base in this thread.

For young blacks who don't know what the 50's and 60's were like, things may seem tough for non-whites, but it is nothing like what rural Oklahoma, urban Oklahoma City, or political power in Oklahoma it once was (50's and 60's). I know and have been around many students at OU and integration is a fact. "White Oklahoma" keeping recruits away is horsefeathers.
We don't know if supervision from the AD, self motivation, or other factors have pushed wbb to work harder lately, but they seem to have recruited better prospects the last 2 years. Which also means the coaches were less than effective in evaluating/recruiting several years before that.
Eventually, poor results catch up with you. That will happen to wbb if we don't do better. Both won-loss records, and attendance indicate a problem.
My disagreement is with the way you interpret what is happening in wbb, and reasons for it. Let's keep it friendly and argue about basketball and bb related issues, not other stuff

Appreciate your opinion, and the possibility is that you are right. But, I think you are probably white, as are most posters. And, I suspect that your responses would be what the white responses would be on the polls that show the difference in how whites and blacks view racism in this country. Think about it.

I do not hold that this is the ONLY issue holding OU back. I think there are a number of issues. I also think there is a lack of realistic historical perception. Except for moments in time, we are not a basketball school. We have never had a women's program that would attract anyone's attention prior to Sherri.

I throw out things for consideration because I think the idea that Sherri can be replaced by someone who can just get out and recruit harder is folly.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

We were a basketball school when Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson were here for years. We were a women's basketball school briefly during the years of the twins, Abi, D-Rob, Stacy, Leah, etc. -- all because of Sherri.

Kruger seems to be doing a good job, although I no longer follow men's basketball at OU or nationally, so I am no judge.

We were a wrestling school nationally for decades. We've been a baseball school in the past.

Softball? Who followed OU before Gasso. (Gasso can recruit good players and make them better. Why doesn't Sherri?)

The idea that OU can't be a national women's basketball school AGAIN because Norman is deficient socially and racially, is ludicrous on it's face.

The problems OU has with producing a very good to great women's basketball team have nothing to do with any of that.

It has everything to do with Sherri and her staff, who they are signing and how they coach.

I have a question I will pose: Which OUWBB players that have been recruited over the last seven years have ended their careers much better as players than when they arrived?

Let's see your list.