Tulsa Billionaire Becomes Thunder co-owner

[sheepdogs1]

Both cities will need to continue to push capital towards downtown development over the next 20 years. The re-urbanization of America is real and many people won't want to live in the 'burbs.

The many people you speak of will inherently be comprised of the younger generation who will view living downtown as hip. Those who are older and have families, including pets, will by and large think otherwise.

 

[campbest]

The many people you speak of will inherently be comprised of the younger generation who will view living downtown as hip. Those who are older and have families, including pets, will by and large think otherwise.

No offense, but how old are you? This is not a typical description of the Gen Y'ers.

Lower income families will move to the suburbs (which is already happening in many cities) as prices continue to rise near the core.

 

[sheepdogs1]

No offense, but how old are you? This is not a typical description of the Gen Y'ers.


Lower income families will move to the suburbs (which is already happening in many cities) as prices continue to rise near the core.

Most of the burbs in Tulsa are more expensive than those in the so called core which you speak of.

Also, with respect to Tulsa, what schools are these families going to send their children to, Central ???? Now that's a good one. The best public schools in Tulsa are situated in the southern burbs and not downtown. If you think this will have no affect on the demographic breakdown of those moving downtown then you're more into yourself than previously thought, which should be of no surprise.

And this "no offense, but" crap is just that.

 

[152219]

Most of the burbs in Tulsa are more expensive than those in the so called core which you speak of.

Also, with respect to Tulsa, what schools are these families going to send their children to, Central ???? Now that's a good one. The best public schools in Tulsa are situated in the southern burbs and not downtown. If you think this will have no affect on the demographic breakdown of those moving downtown then you're more into yourself than previously thought, which should be of no surprise.

And this "no offense, but" crap is just that.

Well, I can speak for Dallas and the amount of growth that has happened inside the loop

 

[WTSooner]

Well, I can speak for Dallas and the amount of growth that has happened inside the loop

Inside the loop, and downtown, are two different things.

 

[152219]

Inside the loop, and downtown, are two different things.

Are we talking about the city proper and the suburbs or just downtown? And what constitutes downtown? If you are talking about just where the skyscrapers are, there are people moving to that area, but there isn't a whole lot of area for growth. If you are speaking about close to downtown, then yes, affluent people are moving in those areas in droves.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Most of the burbs in Tulsa are more expensive than those in the so called core which you speak of.

Hmmm....

Disagree to a point.

There are some really nice areas in south Tulsa and Jenks that are every bit as expensive as the nicer areas in midtown Tulsa.

In fact, south Tulsa is home to Oklahoma's only "Super ZIP" (74137)... (Charles Murray's term for Zip Codes that are in the 95 percentile in income and level of education.)

However, in a general sense, the suburbs are going to be cheaper than the main "midtown" neighborhoods in central Tulsa. It's just purely supply and demand.

If you're looking at homes in the nice areas from the urban core to the south (Riverview, Maple Ridge, Brookside, Florence Park, Ranch Acres, etc.), you will generally get WAY more house for your money by looking at comparable areas in Owasso, B.A., Jenks, etc.

The most expensive real estate in the Tulsa area, by far, is the area between and around Utica Square, Philbrook Museum and Woodward Park.

Also, with respect to Tulsa, what schools are these families going to send their children to, Central ???? Now that's a good one. The best public schools in Tulsa are situated in the southern burbs and not downtown.

The best school in the Tulsa metro (and one of the best in the state) is Booker T. Washington, and it's located just north of downtown.

In terms of the other Tulsa Public Schools, Edison and Memorial are every bit as good as Owasso and Broken Arrow. Jenks is probably a bit better, but not by that much.

But yes, the downtown core feeding into Central would be a problem...

If you think this will have no affect on the demographic breakdown of those moving downtown then you're more into yourself than previously thought, which should be of no surprise.

I tend to agree with this.

While some families will move downtown or close to the urban core, it's likely going to be young families with a lot of disposable income that can send their kids to private schools, OR have the resources to send their kids through the magnet program of Tulsa Public Schools, which IS very high quality.

I'm talking about the Eisenhower language immersion program through BTW in high school, etc.

 

[campbest]

Most of the burbs in Tulsa are more expensive than those in the so called core which you speak of.

Also, with respect to Tulsa, what schools are these families going to send their children to, Central ???? Now that's a good one. The best public schools in Tulsa are situated in the southern burbs and not downtown. If you think this will have no affect on the demographic breakdown of those moving downtown then you're more into yourself than previously thought, which should be of no surprise.

And this "no offense, but" crap is just that.

haha, not sure why so harsh/defensive. Did not meant to come off like that.

I can only speak for Dallas, but since OKC/Tulsa are going through a similar boom time right now compared to this area, imagine there are some resemblances. DISD as a whole will probably always be worse than Park Cities or private schools, but you can already begin to see the change at the elementary levels. Hopefully, as property taxes continue to rise near downtown (which they are projected to do) there will be a bump in the intermediate schools. Obviously takes time, but I personally don't know many people my age with kids who are looking to move to the 'burbs, many of which have kids about to start school. Their offices are downtown or near their homes and are less willing to commute, would rather pay to live close. In addition, many families who have released their children to college/real world, are selling their homes in the burbs and moving back to (near) downtown for the lifestyle. It's hip again.

I've heard more complaints about OKC traffic the last three years than the previous 15, sounds like a similar circumstance is building there.

 

[campbest]

While some families will move downtown or close to the urban core, it's likely going to be young families with a lot of disposable income that can send their kids to private schools, OR have the resources to send their kids through the magnet program of Tulsa Public Schools, which IS very high quality.

I'm talking about the Eisenhower language immersion program through BTW in high school, etc.

All of this is happening right now in Dallas too, for a variety of reasons. More magnets and married couples are waiting longer to have children, i.e. more disposable income.

 

[WTSooner]

One reason I don't think you'll see the same effect in Tulsa, is that you can live in a burb of Tulsa, and make it anywhere in Tulsa in less than 30 minutes (Jenks, Bixby, parts of BA, Glenpool, maybe not Owasso). My point is, the commute isn't an issue. In Dallas, there are people that live 25 miles from north Dallas, that it takes them an hour and a half to get to work in the morning. Tulsa (and OKC) simply wouldn't have that problem.

 

[152219]

Hmmm....

Disagree to a point.

There are some really nice areas in south Tulsa and Jenks that are every bit as expensive as the nicer areas in midtown Tulsa.

In fact, south Tulsa is home to Oklahoma's only "Super ZIP" (74137)... (Charles Murray's term for Zip Codes that are in the 95 percentile in income and level of education.)

.

Never seen that before, so thanks. But it appears the only "Super ZIP" is in OKC

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2013/11/09/washington-a-world-apart/

And a lot more green in OKC than Tulsa

 

[campbest]

One reason I don't think you'll see the same effect in Tulsa, is that you can live in a burb of Tulsa, and make it anywhere in Tulsa in less than 30 minutes (Jenks, Bixby, parts of BA, Glenpool, maybe not Owasso). My point is, the commute isn't an issue. In Dallas, there are people that live 25 miles from north Dallas, that it takes them an hour and a half to get to work in the morning. Tulsa (and OKC) simply wouldn't have that problem.

They just may be a 5 years behind (not in a derogatory term). As long as O&G does well, more people & capital will flood those areas. If O&G busts, another story.

Just think it is a generational mindset more than anything. People want their information at the push of a button, this follows along the same philosophy.

 

[152219]

They just may be a 5 years behind (not in a derogatory term). As long as O&G does well, more people & capital will flood those areas. If O&G busts, another story.

Just think it is a generational mindset more than anything. People want their information at the push of a button, this follows along the same philosophy.

So are you in Uptown, Park Cities, East Dallas, or North Dallas? LOL

 

[campbest]

So are you in Uptown, Park Cities, East Dallas, or North Dallas? LOL

haha, North Dallas.

 

[152219]

haha, North Dallas.

The two biased Dallasites in this thread.

Have friends trying to get their children into Dealey?

The elementary school in our neighborhood in East Dallas is quite good now, but we still went private school for our son.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Hmmm....

Disagree to a point.

There are some really nice areas in south Tulsa and Jenks that are every bit as expensive as the nicer areas in midtown Tulsa.

In fact, south Tulsa is home to Oklahoma's only "Super ZIP" (74137)... (Charles Murray's term for Zip Codes that are in the 95 percentile in income and level of education.)

However, in a general sense, the suburbs are going to be cheaper than the main "midtown" neighborhoods in central Tulsa. It's just purely supply and demand.

If you're looking at homes in the nice areas from the urban core to the south (Riverview, Maple Ridge, Brookside, Florence Park, Ranch Acres, etc.), you will generally get WAY more house for your money by looking at comparable areas in Owasso, B.A., Jenks, etc.

The most expensive real estate in the Tulsa area, by far, is the area between and around Utica Square, Philbrook Museum and Woodward Park.




The best school in the Tulsa metro (and one of the best in the state) is Booker T. Washington, and it's located just north of downtown.

In terms of the other Tulsa Public Schools, Edison and Memorial are every bit as good as Owasso and Broken Arrow. Jenks is probably a bit better, but not by that much.

But yes, the downtown core feeding into Central would be a problem...



I tend to agree with this.

While some families will move downtown or close to the urban core, it's likely going to be young families with a lot of disposable income that can send their kids to private schools, OR have the resources to send their kids through the magnet program of Tulsa Public Schools, which IS very high quality.

I'm talking about the Eisenhower language immersion program through BTW in high school, etc.

I said most of the neighborhoods. Outside of the two miles or so, south of the Utica Square area is the concentrated area of upper end homes in the central part of the city, but outside of that, 'most' of the higher end homes are to be found in the southern sections of the city.

Secondly, Booker T. is a 'magnet' school, which falls under a different scope than the rest of the Tulsa school system. You cannot just move downtown, family and all, and just expect it to be a given that they will be accepted at Washington based on desire alone.

Thirdly, outside of Cascia Hall, most of the top tier private schools are again situated in the southern quadrant of the city. If you expect mom and pop to drive their kids to take the daily ten mile or so jaunt out to Holland Hall and Metro Christian then you need to reevaluate this notion of yours.

 

[Vinny78]

The best school in the Tulsa metro (and one of the best in the state) is Booker T. Washington, and it's located just north of downtown.

In terms of the other Tulsa Public Schools, Edison and Memorial are every bit as good as Owasso and Broken Arrow. Jenks is probably a bit better, but not by that much.


WOW, Jeff you are dillusional if you think Tulsa public schools are good AND that Edison and Memorial are as good as BA and Owasso. LOL!!! No one and i mean no one with common sense buys in those school areas Because no one wants their kids to go there - they are awful. That is why you can buy a house soooo much cheaper there is no one that can buy in BA or Owasso would ever even consider buying there. Wake up hotrod, i think you are using your OSU education making those kind of comments!!

 

[oSuJeff97]

Never seen that before, so thanks. But it appears the only "Super ZIP" is in OKC

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2013/11/09/washington-a-world-apart/

And a lot more green in OKC than Tulsa

Hmmm... that's weird.

I have the Charles Murray book ("Coming Apart") where he does this analysis, and it has a listing of super ZIPs by state. In his book, the 74137 ZIP in Tulsa was the only Super ZIP in the state.

I'll need to look through that Washington Post posting to see what's going on.

As for the "more green" area, a lot of that has to do with the geographic size of the zip codes in question. It would be interesting to size them by their population and see what it looks like.

(I'm not predicting what it would look like... just curious what it would look like.)

 

[oSuJeff97]

WOW, Jeff you are dillusional if you think Tulsa public schools are good AND that Edison and Memorial are as good as BA and Owasso. LOL!!! No one and i mean no one with common sense buys in those school areas Because no one wants their kids to go there - they are awful. That is why you can buy a house soooo much cheaper there is no one that can buy in BA or Owasso would ever even consider buying there. Wake up hotrod, i think you are using your OSU education making those kind of comments!!

Are you retarded, or do you just come off that way on message boards?

You're telling me that Booker T. Washington is NOT the best high school in the Tulsa metro?

U.S. News and World Report disagrees.

They also disagree on your assessment of Edison and Memorial, vis a vis Owasso and B.A.

They rank schools based on "college readiness index", "math proficiency", "reading proficiency" and "student/teacher ratio."

Here's how the schools in question rank:

BTW: 48.1, 3.2, 3.4, 19:1

Edison: 33.7, 2.3, 2.9, 19:1

Memorial: 25.2, 2.5, 2.7, 17:1

Owasso: 22.9, 2.5, 2.6, 18:1

Broken Arrow: 15.7, 2.2, 2.4, 18:1

BTW is far better than the rest, which is - again - why they are the highest ranked HS in the Tulsa metro.

The funny thing is that Edison and Memorial are both ranked higher in college prep than both Owasso and B.A. and are basically the same (or slightly better) in the other measures.

 

[SuperHoops]

Are you retarded, or do you just come off that way on message boards?

You're telling me that Booker T. Washington is NOT the best high school in the Tulsa metro?

U.S. News and World Report disagrees.

They also disagree on your assessment of Edison and Memorial, vis a vis Owasso and B.A.

They rank schools based on "college readiness index", "math proficiency", "reading proficiency" and "student/teacher ratio."

Here's how the schools in question rank:

BTW: 48.1, 3.2, 3.4, 19:1

Edison: 33.7, 2.3, 2.9, 19:1

Memorial: 25.2, 2.5, 2.7, 17:1

Owasso: 22.9, 2.5, 2.6, 18:1

Broken Arrow: 15.7, 2.2, 2.4, 18:1

BTW is far better than the rest, which is - again - why they are the highest ranked HS in the Tulsa metro.

The funny thing is that Edison and Memorial are both ranked higher in college prep than both Owasso and B.A. and are basically the same (or slightly better) in the other measures.

You're arguing academia with a guy who truly believes "dillusional" is an actual word?