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WTSooner said:
So please tell me what about the following assistant coaches' resumes were SO much better than Kellen's that nobody questioned them getting a solid first time HC offer:

Tommy Lloyd - Zaga to Arizona
Jon Scheyer - Duke to Duke (had just 8 years as an assistant, all at Duke)
Jerome Tang - Baylor to KSU
Aidrian Autry - Cuse to Cuse


Dean Smith had zero HC'ing experience before North Carolina.
Jim Boheim had no HC'ing experience before Cuse.
Mark Few had no HC'ing experience before Zaga.
Tom Izzo had no HC'ing experience before MSU.

Matt Painter only coached one season at Southern Illinois before Purdue.

Just because colleges are more comfortable recycling mediocre coaches, doesn't mean schools can't find the next up and coming coaches. The fit needs to be there. A lot of the guys above ended up HC'ing where they were assistants. Kellen wouldn't be doing that, per se, but probably the next closes thing. You know Joe C knows all about him.

My original question, asked another way, what could possibly be on an assistant coach's resume that would wow you, since experience means so much to you? You've thrown out a few names of guys that are still pretty young, and while they have a couple of seasons under their belt, I sure wouldn't be comfortable trying to predict what kind of coaches they'll be long-term, or at OU. Are one or two or three decent years, or two bad years and one year good, is that really enough "experience" to separate somebody from a well known assistant?

And make no mistake about it, Kellen is a highly thought of assistant. You guys don't want to admit that, but he isn't some unknown commodity.

He's first on this list from 2022:
www.silverwavesmedia.com

2022 Most Impactful High Major Assistants: Men’s Division I — Silver Waves Media

Kellen Sampson Jr. - Houston Kellen Sampson is entering his ninth season as an Assistant Coach for the Houston Cougars. During his time at Houston, the Cougars have achieved immense success making four NCAA National Tournament appearances including a Final Four appearance in 2021 and an Elite Eigh
www.silverwavesmedia.com www.silverwavesmedia.com

Another article had him on the same list in 2023, though I can't find a list to the actual article (2023).

Here is a top 25 list from 2020 that he's on:
theathletic.com

Top college basketball assistant coaches for 2020-21

These men's basketball assistants could get head coaching jobs soon, perhaps at the end of the 2020-21 season.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Once he got named HC in Waiting, some of the accolades died down, b/c the thought was that he wouldn't be up for other jobs, and most of the lists are kind of structured around guys getting a shot. But he shows up on damn near every list I could find, going back 5+ years.

So again, if you say that some of the guys that went straight from assistant to HC were highly thought of guys, I'd argue Kellen fits that description too.
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I could name a laundry list of coaches with zero HC experience that went to a major P5 type program and failed too. And hard to include guys like Boeheim, Dean Smith, and Tom Izzo in that list as they started way before the current AAU/NIL/prep school/transfer portal of college basketball. Including Scheyer on the list is a little misleading too as he took over the program where he was the Associate HC and Duke is a blueblood. Hard to fail at recruiting at Duke.

As far as Tang, doesn’t he have a worse record, going to miss the tourney, and got beat by 20 to the coach you want to fire?? With all their NIL money? If Tang is an example of success from an assistant you crave, why get rid of PM?

And I’ll ask again, why Kellen? What has he done away from his Dad? Without looking, tell me his top 5 recruits, tell me what players he’s developed into draft choices or all-conference players. Even tell me what his responsibilities are as the AC at Houston.

My point is the main reason many are wanting him as HC is he’s a cool energetic guy that went to OU. Not because his basketball coaching resume and INDIVIDUAL coaching success, either as a HC or just an assistant.

There are plenty of other coaches, many HCs, with more impressive resumes than Kellen. Crap, there is even another son of a HC that is only an assistant that I would choose before Kellen, as he has a track record on his own and multiple schools, including bluebloods. Proven great recruiter. That’s Jai Lucas. But most would flip the freak out because of where he went to college.

IF Porter does leave, and that’s a big IF, IMO, give me the best choice for the job. Not just someone based on his ties to OU.

And if his name was John Brown, not Kellen Sampson, 99% of people would say his resume isn’t the best choice.
 
WTSooner said:
So please tell me what about the following assistant coaches' resumes were SO much better than Kellen's that nobody questioned them getting a solid first time HC offer:

Tommy Lloyd - Zaga to Arizona
Jon Scheyer - Duke to Duke (had just 8 years as an assistant, all at Duke)
Jerome Tang - Baylor to KSU
Aidrian Autry - Cuse to Cuse


Dean Smith had zero HC'ing experience before North Carolina.
Jim Boheim had no HC'ing experience before Cuse.
Mark Few had no HC'ing experience before Zaga.
Tom Izzo had no HC'ing experience before MSU.

Matt Painter only coached one season at Southern Illinois before Purdue.
Click to expand...

You can add Roy Williams to this list as well. No HC'ing experience before getting the KU job.
 
MJSooner said:
And I’ll ask again, why Kellen? What has he done away from his Dad? Without looking, tell me his top 5 recruits, tell me what players he’s developed into draft choices or all-conference players. Even tell me what his responsibilities are as the AC at Houston.

My point is the main reason many are wanting him as HC is he’s a cool energetic guy that went to OU. Not because his basketball coaching resume and INDIVIDUAL coaching success, either as a HC or just an assistant.

There are plenty of other coaches, many HCs, with more impressive resumes than Kellen. Crap, there is even another son of a HC that is only an assistant that I would choose before Kellen, as he has a track record on his own and multiple schools, including bluebloods. Proven great recruiter. That’s Jai Lucas. But most would flip the freak out because of where he went to college.

IF Porter does leave, and that’s a big IF, IMO, give me the best choice for the job. Not just someone based on his ties to OU.

And if his name was John Brown, not Kellen Sampson, 99% of people would say his resume isn’t the best choice.
Click to expand...

Who gives a crap what he's done away from his dad? What does that even mean? You don't have to trust what Kelvin has said about Kellen, most of the folks that would know in the industry think VERY highly of him, and have for damn near a decade. I literally provided you with links stating as much. One that had him at the top of the list a couple of years ago.

Why Kellen? Because I think he's a great fit. I think the style of basketball he would bring to Norman is a style we can be successful with. I think it would bring a level of intensity and consistently that would help generate more fan/recruit interest. I think he can get by without landing the best of the best in terms of recruiting, and that you'll see consistent improvement/development. I think if he had success, he'd stay at OU. Probably less than 10 jobs in the country he'd leave OU for. Maybe less than 5. I think the job would mean something to him having graduated and played for OU. I think he has recruiting ties in this part of the country that would serve him well.

I guarantee you Kellen Sampson has a better recruiting resume than some of the clowns you named earlier. As for his NBA development list, how about:
Jarace Walker
Marcus Sasser
Quentin Grimes
Nate Hinton
Armoni Brooks
Damyean Dotson
DeJon Jarreau
Taze Moore

Rob Gray is a guy that I think has been very successful overseas. He was one of Kelvin's first really good guards at UH, I believe.

I think those are guys that have showed up on NBA rosters. But in recent years, like the last three drafts ,they've had Walker, Sasser, and Grimes all get drafted in the first round. I'm not giving Kellen all of the credit, but I don't honestly know how you figure out which coach gets credit. He's on the staff. I've seen Kelvin and various players mentioned Kellen. So I'm giving him some credit.

Shead will likely get drafted this year. Not sure if in the first round or not.

I will bet you any amount of money that Kellen ends up being a better coach than Jai Lucas. That dude is going to flop when/if he is ever given a chance. Just like his father did.

I'm not locked onto Kellen. If there is another fit that is as good, with a less risky option, I'd be all ears. But I'm not interested in some coach that has had one really good season early in his coaching career at a small school. Or some vet that has been around and wins 20 games every year. I want better than that for OU.

So give me an option that is going to develop the talent he recruits. Give me an option that is familiar with this part of the country and will be able to recruit it well. Give me an option that if he has success, is still likely to stay at OU. Give me an option that has been around winning basketball for a number of years. Give me an option that is clean, that doesn't have a lot of baggage, knowing OU doesn't mess with that crap. Give me an option that has been a part of a program that CONSISTENTLY shows elite player development. Give me an option that will demand the most out of his players day in and day out.

Houston basically has the program I want OU to have. Recruits just well enough. Rugged, tough defense. Modern offense. Elite player development. Good eye for 3* talent that can quickly be developed into good, contributing players. CONSISTENCY!!! Low turnover. Family atmosphere (like our football program is promoting). Team first. A culture where everybody isn't equal on the offensive end. You give your best players the most shots. Again, I don't see anybody doing it like Houston, and I like what I see out of that program and think that is what OU should be aiming to be. Nothing Houston is doing cannot be replicated at OU. You don't like Kellen, then find me a better option that can build that program and will stick around to enjoy the benefits win it becomes elite.
 
TINY said:
I think you have talked me into being more open to hiring an assistant coach.

Having said that, I still would not hire Kellen.
Click to expand...
I can accept that. I will continue working on you though in terms of Kellen. :)
 
If nothing else, at least we're having good convos without a lot of hostility. I wish we had more Sooners on here who cared like we all do. If you made it here, you probably want OU to succeed (in hoops). Even if we don't completely see eye-to-eye on Moser, Kellen, etc.
 
StoopsBros said:
If nothing else, at least we're having good convos without a lot of hostility. I wish we had more Sooners on here who cared like we all do. If you made it here, you probably want OU to succeed (in hoops). Even if we don't completely see eye-to-eye on Moser, Kellen, etc.
Click to expand...
This is a dumb post.

;)
 
WTSooner said:
Houston basically has the program I want OU to have. Recruits just well enough. Rugged, tough defense. Modern offense. Elite player development. Good eye for 3* talent that can quickly be developed into good, contributing players. CONSISTENCY!!
Click to expand...
I agree with this. This is what I would love to have too.

But how much of that is attritutable to Kellen? Sure, he’s a part, but how much? The reality is Kelvin and Tillman Fertitita is overwhelmingly responsible for where the Houston Cougars are RN, WAY greater than Kellen Sampson. And they’re not coming to Norman with him.

If Kellen was coming into a situation where we had the program rolling and we had major fan, NIL, and BMD support, I might agree with you on him being a good hire.

Unfortunately, that’s not where our program is.
 
MJSooner said:
I agree with this. This is what I would love to have too.

But how much of that is attritutable to Kellen? Sure, he’s a part, but how much? The reality is Kelvin and Tillman Fertitita is overwhelmingly responsible for where the Houston Cougars are RN, WAY greater than Kellen Sampson. And they’re not coming to Norman with him.

If Kellen was coming into a situation where we had the program rolling and we had major fan, NIL, and BMD support, I might agree with you on him being a good hire.

Unfortunately, that’s not where our program is.
Click to expand...
We disagree on how much NIL and Fertitta are impacting the program (outside of the new arena). They aren't recruiting a bunch of stud kids. Yes, they got Walker last year, but most of the starters/contributors this year were 3* kids that have simply developed and been coached up.

I can't tell you how to feel, but constantly blaming NIL, I just can't get there. And I don't want to get there b/c that is likely to ALWAYS be a problem for us. Moser landed most of the transfers he went after. NIL likely wasn't going to bring in anybody better than what Soares has done, and probably even Moore. JM was a guy Moser locked onto early. Same with Sherfield the year before. Who are all the elite transfers or HS kids coming into the Big 12 on big NIL deals? 2023 recruiting, OU is 4th in the Big 12 in rating per prospect (247).

NIL just seems like an excuse. NIL isn't why OU finished 1 game out of 12th place in the conference. That isn't NIL.

You want to say NIL is why we can't win a NC? I might agree with you there. But you cannot convince me that we don't have the current resources to be better than we've been the last 3 years. Not like we're losing a bunch of guys from our roster to NIL. Hill, and that was a unique situation, and one in which we probably came out ahead.

Edit: And for the record, I don't know how much credit to give Kellen. I've read to much to not give him any, he is a big part of what they do. But even if he isn't actively doing it himself, my hope is that he is capable of doing it and could/would at OU. Maybe there would be some growing pains. Maybe not. Who knows? But I feel that way about most of the names we'd hire, even if they have experience. I'm looking more at fit, style, and upside. Joe C would have to conduct the interview, talk to some folks, and get a plan for how Kellen would succeed at OU first, if it even got that far. I just like the fit. OU basketball could survive if he underachieved and we had to move on. We survived Capel and some pretty thin years with Lon at the helm at Buddy left. And we've survived two pretty lackluster years of Moser before this year. Again, the OU brand is strong.
 
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Not posting this to make any point. We've been discussing and I found this article, so I thought I'd put it here.

Sampson knows that NIL is part of the process now when it comes to recruiting and retaining players. It’s not clear how much his players are netting off NIL, nor is he saying.

But, he does admit that the Cougars have opted to not pursue certain players once they’ve heard that the NIL numbers are.

"I don't like to talk numbers, but I live with the numbers,” Sampson recently told the Houston Chronicle. “We've had kids we've just stopped recruiting — our name's attached to them for a long time and we stopped recruiting them probably two months ago — because we heard what the (NIL compensation) number was. We're not doing that. If he can get that, God bless him. Go for it son. I don't do that stuff."
Click to expand...
 
WTSooner said:
Who are all the elite transfers or HS kids coming into the Big 12 on big NIL deals?
Click to expand...
Elite transfers to the Big XII because of NIL?? Not including anyone on OU, how about Hunter Dickinson, Max Abmas, Tylor Perry, Keyshon Gilbert, Damian Dunn, Javon Small, Jameer Nelson, Lukosious, and though technically not new to the Big XII, LJ Cryer. Basically most of the top players in the league this year were all transfers where NIL played a hiuge role. Look what KSU did with NIL last year, including KJ. The Dickinson NIL was rumored to be a deal around $850K. Abmas like $300K. We don’t compete at those levels.

Want to be better- gotta get better players. Sitting at the LNC and seeing how we physically match up against Houston, KU, even Cincy, and teams like UNC, Baylor…it’s not the same. And until we get at least some of that level of talent other top programs get from the portal, we won’t be near their level in the standings or record either.

Moser hasn’t been perfect in coaching either. Made some mistakes. He still can coach and did win 20 games. But without better NIL support, and arena to attract fans and recruits, he’s fighting with a hand tied behind his back. Hard to get to the expectation levels of many fans without that support.

And if PM leaves, I’m afraid those circumstances won’t be any different for the next coach, even if it is Kellen.
 
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