OU @ Texas 1pm CST on ESPN

[TINY]

You don't think 11-20 is awful?

I'd argue 13-18 and 14-18 are too.

Louisville? Georgetown? WVU? Those teams aren't awful this year?

The 11-20 was very bad but it was against the #1 SOS. I just took your “god awful” comment as like a quad 4 team which I don’t think we have ever been since then.

 

[TEvans4Three]

You don't think 11-20 is awful?

I'd argue 13-18 and 14-18 are too.

Louisville? Georgetown? WVU? Those teams aren't awful this year?

Sure, but do you think our Final 4 and Elite 8 years are just above mediocre?

 

[hoopsaustin]

Ehh, I wasn't his biggest fan, but Reeves.

Forgot he was a transfer

 

[TheMont]

Death, taxes, Moser teams making texass look much much better than they are. Devastating we have to play them again in 4 days.

Absolutely no chance we make any postseason noise without Soares. Need him to heal miraculously asap.

 

[StoopsBros]

And I'll say it again since you and everybody else want to ignore it.....

If OU can hire HC's in football that don't have any HC experience (and they have, save Schnelly, going back to before Wilkinson), they damn sure can do it in basketball. Just because YOU don't want them to, or you don't want them to do it with Kellen, doesn't mean our program is above it or shouldn't do it. That's absolutely insane to even suggest. After Capel? Sure, we needed somebody with some experience at that point in time. Kellen has been around the game A LONG TIME. He runs a lot of stuff at Houston, Kelvin wouldn't still be coaching if he didn't have assistants that could do that (Kelvin has said that).

That is a "ghost" I'd absolutely chase. I don't think the floor would be all that low. He could absolutely accomplish what Moser has the last three years. I'd bet cash money on that.

But no, we'll probably go hire another mediocre coach with a mediocre resume, and be sad when the results he produces are, well.....mediocre.

The last assistant OU hired to lead the basketball program was Dave Bliss. 1975, I think, without looking (I looked the other day). Maybe 1974. It does seem like our program is above it, for the last 50 years anyway.

I'd argue that football and basketball aren't nearly the same when it comes to how coaching hires work and/or how things work in general.

It's very, very rare for an college basketball assistant to jump to head coach at the high major level. Maybe 15% of head coaches were hired, at this level, who lacked experience. Assistant - small/mid major HC - big program HC. That's the customary ladder for coaches. Several of the 15% I'm referencing are coaches like Jon Scheyer who were groomed/picked to replace retired coaches. And out of that 15%, over half would be deemed failures (if we're counting Eilert at WVU who has had an opportunity to get the job/win). I'm not as data-driven, or smart, as our man @TEvans4Three...maybe he has better data on this stuff. I'm very basic in nature, lol. Roughly though, 7-8% of high major programs are having some success with a HC who previously lacked HC experience. The odds are against Kellen. That's sort of my overall point. It could work but again, it doesn't feel like a safe bet.

Meanwhile in CFB, it's customary. OCs/DCs are essentially the head coaches of their specific units and that's just the way we view it, especially if the coordinator calls the plays for their units. The next logical step is HC. You could maybe equate a football program hiring a RB (or any singular position) coach as the HC to a college basketball program (again, high major) hiring an assistant. I don't have those stats, though.

I saw you say Kellen would be like hiring Venables and I disagree. Or if OU can hire BV, they could hire Kellen. For the better part of two decades or so, the top 3 DCs have been Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, and/or Brent Venables. Arguably. Saban and Smart have been head coaches for a long time, obviously, with Saban hanging up the whistle now. Brent could have been a HC a long time ago and finally gave in/accepted the OU position. He has three national championships as a DC/co-DC. Kellen is a good assistant but he isn't in the same stratosphere as Venables. And let's be honest, I "love" Coach V as a fan, great man, but his time hasn't been exactly deemed an enormous success, yet.

 

[inoref]

The last assistant OU hired to lead the basketball program was Dave Bliss. 1975, I think, without looking (I looked the other day). Maybe 1974. It does seem like our program is above it, for the last 50 years anyway.

I'd argue that football and basketball aren't nearly the same when it comes to how coaching hires work and/or how things work in general.

It's very, very rare for an college basketball assistant to jump to head coach at the high major level. Maybe 15% of head coaches were hired, at this level, who lacked experience. Assistant - small/mid major HC - big program HC. That's the customary ladder for coaches. Several of the 15% I'm referencing are coaches like Jon Scheyer who were groomed/picked to replace retired coaches. And out of that 15%, over half would be deemed failures (if we're counting Eilert at WVU who has had an opportunity to get the job/win). I'm not as data-driven, or smart, as our man @TEvans4Three...maybe he has better data on this stuff. I'm very basic in nature, lol. Roughly though, 7-8% of high major programs are having some success with a HC who previously lacked HC experience. The odds are against Kellen. That's sort of my overall point. It could work but again, it doesn't feel like a safe bet.

Meanwhile in CFB, it's customary. OCs/DCs are essentially the head coaches of their specific units and that's just the way we view it, especially if the coordinator calls the plays for their units. The next logical step is HC. You could maybe equate a football program hiring a RB (or any singular position) coach as the HC to a college basketball program (again, high major) hiring an assistant. I don't have those stats, though.

I saw you say Kellen would be like hiring Venables and I disagree. For the better part of two decades or so, the top 3 DCs have been Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, and/or Brent Venables. Arguably. Saban and Smart have been head coaches for a long time, obviously, with Saban hanging up the whistle now. Brent could have been a HC a long time ago and finally gave in/accepted the OU position. He has three national championships as a DC/co-DC. Kellen is a good assistant but he isn't in the same stratosphere as Venables. And let's be honest, I "love" Coach V as a fan, great man, but his time hasn't been exactly deemed an enormous success, yet.

Don't see Kellen leaving Houston for the OU job

 

[StoopsBros]

Don't see Kellen leaving Houston for the OU job

I really don't get why he would. He's already a shoe-in for HC (HCIW), he's set to make millions, and his dad will likely stick around to help him ride the bicycle until the training wheels can be taken off. Plus, as we sit here today, the Houston admin cares a lot more than the OU admin does about basketball success.

 

[MJSooner]

Don't see Kellen leaving Houston for the OU job

And who’s to say if Houston continues playing like they are and cut down the nets in April, that Kelvin won’t retire?

We assume Kellen is offered and takes the job at OU just because he graduated HS and college in Norman. But with the current state of the programs, and the support of the fans and money from Feritita, the Houston job is better RN. Just like StoopsBros said, more support from admin and everywhere in Houston.

Even if he has to wait a couple of years for it.

 

[hoopsaustin]

And who’s to say if Houston continues playing like they are and cut down the nets in April, that Kelvin won’t retire?

We assume Kelvin takes the job at OU just because he graduated HS and college in Norman. But with the current state of the programs, and the support of the fans and money from Feritita, the Houston job is better RN.

Even if he has to wait a couple of years for it.

Kellen is a cornball and wont be respected by D1 players. He used to get ripped on by campers at kelvin's father/son camps lol. Its not happening

 

[MJSooner]

Kellen is a cornball and wont be respected by D1 players. He used to get ripped on by campers at kelvin's father camps lol. Its not happening

Well guys mature and certainly he has. The dude is older and has a family. Don’t think what happened at summer camps would be a factor.

But the fact he has zero HC experience and there would be many more qualified candidates that would want the job would be much bigger factors.

If you took his resume in paper and left off his name and college degree, not one person on this board would be hyping him for the job- which isn’t even open BTW- like they are. Crap, Kevin Kruger is more qualified and has a better resume than Kellen and has a degree from OU. Even played pro ball. But people would riot if he were hired.

Not saying I want KK just making a comparison. Plenty of good coaches to choose from if the job opens. Having ties to OU or dad coaching at OU shouldn’t be a requirement or determining factor.

 

[MercedeSooner]

If DePaul is really going to pay the the 8M buyout for Moser OU can go after almost any coach in the country from a $ perspective. Way too much misinformation out there.

 

[hoopsaustin]

If DePaul is really going to pay the the 8M buyout for Moser OU can go after almost any coach in the country from a $ perspective. Way too much misinformation out there.

Agreed and honestly this js my most preferred route. Moser is not nearly as good of a coach that i figured and hoped hed be (im not necessarily opposed to giving him 1 more year in the SEC)

 

[WTSooner]

If you took his resume in paper and left off his name and college degree, not one person on this board would be hyping him for the job- which isn’t even open BTW- like they are.

So please tell me what about the following assistant coaches' resumes were SO much better than Kellen's that nobody questioned them getting a solid first time HC offer:

Tommy Lloyd - Zaga to Arizona
Jon Scheyer - Duke to Duke (had just 8 years as an assistant, all at Duke)
Jerome Tang - Baylor to KSU
Aidrian Autry - Cuse to Cuse


Dean Smith had zero HC'ing experience before North Carolina.
Jim Boheim had no HC'ing experience before Cuse.
Mark Few had no HC'ing experience before Zaga.
Tom Izzo had no HC'ing experience before MSU.

Matt Painter only coached one season at Southern Illinois before Purdue.

Just because colleges are more comfortable recycling mediocre coaches, doesn't mean schools can't find the next up and coming coaches. The fit needs to be there. A lot of the guys above ended up HC'ing where they were assistants. Kellen wouldn't be doing that, per se, but probably the next closes thing. You know Joe C knows all about him.

My original question, asked another way, what could possibly be on an assistant coach's resume that would wow you, since experience means so much to you? You've thrown out a few names of guys that are still pretty young, and while they have a couple of seasons under their belt, I sure wouldn't be comfortable trying to predict what kind of coaches they'll be long-term, or at OU. Are one or two or three decent years, or two bad years and one year good, is that really enough "experience" to separate somebody from a well known assistant?

And make no mistake about it, Kellen is a highly thought of assistant. You guys don't want to admit that, but he isn't some unknown commodity.

He's first on this list from 2022:

2022 Most Impactful High Major Assistants: Men’s Division I — Silver Waves Media

Kellen Sampson Jr. - Houston Kellen Sampson is entering his ninth season as an Assistant Coach for the Houston Cougars. During his time at Houston, the Cougars have achieved immense success making four NCAA National Tournament appearances including a Final Four appearance in 2021 and an Elite Eigh

www.silverwavesmedia.com

Another article had him on the same list in 2023, though I can't find a list to the actual article (2023).

Here is a top 25 list from 2020 that he's on:

Top college basketball assistant coaches for 2020-21

These men's basketball assistants could get head coaching jobs soon, perhaps at the end of the 2020-21 season.

theathletic.com

Once he got named HC in Waiting, some of the accolades died down, b/c the thought was that he wouldn't be up for other jobs, and most of the lists are kind of structured around guys getting a shot. But he shows up on damn near every list I could find, going back 5+ years.

So again, if you say that some of the guys that went straight from assistant to HC were highly thought of guys, I'd argue Kellen fits that description too.

 

[mict085]

Anyone that has worked for their dad all his life is a huge risk when stepping out on his own for the first time. Maybe it would be different if he’d worked for other elite coaches too. I just think Kellen Sampson is not qualified to be head coach at OU…yet. If he proves himself first, then maybe he can be considered. Today? Hell no.

 

[WTSooner]

Anyone that has worked for their dad all his life is a huge risk when stepping out on his own for the first time. Maybe it would be different if he’d worked for other elite coaches too. I just think Kellen Sampson is not qualified to be head coach at OU…yet. If he proves himself first, then maybe he can be considered. Today? Hell no.

Same question as above. Why were the others qualified?

Just because somebody can win at a small school with no expectations doesn't mean they can win at OU. Every coach other than Lon Kruger that OU has hired dating back to Billy Tubbs had a fairly high level of risk. I honestly don't see that Kellen would carry all that much added risk.

Why is working for his dad, an elite coach over the last 10 years, not enough? I bet Kelvin is/was harder on him than he'd have been on other assistants.

I get that it's not the route some of you want to go, but the logic is flawed. You all are holding Kellen to a higher standard than you are others. And OU basketball, while a quality program, doesn't really attract very high level coaching prospects. We all know the legit names that get thrown around the last 2-4 times OU needed to find a coach. If we want a REALLY GOOD head coach, we're going to have to find somebody that can grow into that role, b/c we sure as heck aren't going to be able to hire somebody that is already known as that.

 

[steverocks35]

I didn’t get to watch the game live. I just finished watching it and it’s just great to see us get embarrassed by Texas AND get our best player injured. We were bad on defense and absolutely pathetic on offense. So much hero ball and no ball movement.

There’s no shame in losing if you play well and you play hard, but I don’t know what this was. Soares is basically the only guy that showed up and Moser didn’t have the brains to get him out of the game late and save him for the postseason. Maybe we’ll get lucky and it won’t be a serious injury. Either way it was brain-dead coaching.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I didn’t get to watch the game live. I just finished watching it and it’s just great to see us get embarrassed by Texas AND get our best player injured. We were bad on defense and absolutely pathetic on offense. So much hero ball and no ball movement.

There’s no shame in losing if you play well and you play hard, but I don’t know what this was. Soares is basically the only guy that showed up and Moser didn’t have the brains to get him out of the game late and save him for the postseason. Maybe we’ll get lucky and it won’t be a serious injury. Either way it was brain-dead coaching.

Alright genius, at what point would you have pulled our best player out of the game?

 

[steverocks35]

Alright genius, at what point would you have pulled our best player out of the game?

Probably when we were down 19 in the 2nd half, “genius.”

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Probably when we were down 19 in the 2nd half, “genius.”

I’d love to have seen your reaction if moser threw in the towell by benching our best player.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

For the record, there were 13 minutes left when we were down 19. No coach is giving up at that point