What would it take for Lon to stay?

[AdaSooner]

No chance Joe C. does something. Have you guys not seen all of the FBI reports? Almost every school except OU is mentioned. That is LK. Yes it hurts us in talent acquisition. Some of the guys haven't developed and it probably is on the change of assistant coaches. Some of it is the players. It is embarrassing how weak Khadeem is with the ball.

Vbdad, I think most of us know there is almost no chance Joe C will make a change at the end of this season. There is ZERO chance he would ever bring Kelvin back, so the Sampson hangers-on can forget that idea.

Given the circumstances, posters here have been more controlled than I thought possible. The KU blowout, followed by another embarrassing loss at Baylor was simply more than fans could take. The result? Threads and posts openly calling for Lon’s head.

Never dreamed we would see a day like this. Lon is a good guy (maybe too good) and a good coach. But the truth is, he lost this team, and there is very little evidence to suggest that he has the ability to right the ship. Sure hope I’m wrong!

 

[22dupree]

He was very efficient early in the season.

In Feb, his effective FG percentage has dropped to 43%. I don't know how well this compares to other top players but he seems very inefficient lately

Shooting percentages are often helped by your teammates being able to create open or easy looks for you. No one on this team creates easy looks for Young; in fact, defenses sniff the blatant ineffectiveness of his teammates and crowd him even further.

Unfortunately, there's no post presence on this team and to cause a double team and kick out to an open Young ... or great shooters you can't help off of to create space for drives to the bucket by Young. Our guys repeatedly fail to hit open shots or finish strong at the rim.

Young's decision-making is not perfect in terms of when and from where to shoot from at times, but he's got precious little assistance on the floor.

 

[Max Power]

When things get frustrating, it is easy to overlook the real reason for losing.

Yesterday it was almost entirely because we had players - players not named Trey - who missed easy, easy buckets, time after time.

That is not in any way the coaches fault. Or TY's. It is because those players are not very good. They may do some things well, but they cannot shoot - even close, easy shots. They are coached to get them into position for make-able shots - then they miss them time after time.

That is why we lost so many games last year - and this year.

And even recruiting is partly due to outside issues. Some (apparently many of the ones some call "great" coaches) win because they are cheaters. The NCAA supports and in reality encourages it by not penalizing them for blatant cheating. A coach who tries to play by the rules is in a huge disadvantage in recruiting.

Who recruited and coaches those not good players?

 

[Soonerinkc]

Evidence that our players and coaching staff are committed again. It starts with a vastly improved defense and a work ethic that seems to be missing with this team. It ends with rah, rah speeches and coach speak in interviews that mean very little, and result in even less.

If nothing changes this season, what do we have to look forward to next year?

we've got about 3-4 more games....THIS season is basically over, unfortunately.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Who recruited and coaches those not good players?

recruited and COACHED (or lack of)

There was another thread about *...we have 1 5*, 3 - 4*, 6 - 3*...so either he isn't coaching them or they were overrated...or both.

 

[cjhsooner]

Haha, that salary is a good reason for Lon to stay. Oh, you meant what it would take for us fans to be ok with him staying? Doesn't matter, since he won't be fired, or be coerced out.

 

[Matthew G]

Not quite. Capel's last two seasons were both complete disasters. And in five seasons, he never made the tourney other than the two years he had Blake. On the other hand, Lon has us on track to make the tourney for the 5th time in 7 years. Plus, he hasn't gotten the program in NCAA trouble. 5 tourneys in 7 years, one Final Four, no NCAA issues, and one truly awful season (last year) for Lon, vs. 2 tourneys in 5 years, no Final Fours, NCAA sanctions, and two brutal years for Capel. Not "similar results" by a long shot.

So many people forget this. I don't quite understand OU basketball fans on this either.

Capel: 5 years, 2 tournament appearances (both with the #1 pick in Blake Griffin), 2 years after which were terrible and ended up getting OU in serious trouble with scholarship reductions and probation. This was also with guys like Willie Warren and Tiny Gallon who were top recruits.

Kruger: 7 years, what will be 5 tournament appearances, 1 sweet 16, 1 final four. Only missed the tournament his 1st year and then last year.


I guess my question is, what exactly are OU fans wanting? Constant final fours? Conference titles? What exactly should OU be doing?

I mean seriously, look at our facilities. Take a look at them. Where does the LNC rank in the Big 12 for arenas? Where does the practice facilities that are currently here rank in the Big 12? I would put both last or near last. What about fan support? Do OU fans support the program with donations or attendance, or are they in the middle of the conference in that? I'd argue for attendance, they are in the middle, and donations, I would argue they are near the bottom of the league considering our facilities.

Reality is, OU is a football school. Fans know this, donors know this. OU is exactly where they are compared to the donations and facilities, which is a middle program who can have some great peaks, but is just average overall. I mean, Lon Kruger himself is tied for 3rd technically in salaries in the Big 12, but when you add Dixon's contract, Kruger is tied for 4th in the Big 12 for salary. That's a final four coach who is tied for 4th in the Big 12 in salaries at $3.1 million. Shaka Smart, a coach who is younger and hasn't done nearly as much makes the exact same as Kruger. So for all this anger and talk of Kruger being let go, fans really have a false expectation for this program.


Like for everyone who wants Kruger to go, name a replacement that could do even close to the same that OU could get. Remember the facilities, salary, donations, being a football first program when you start naming names.

 

[MrAnderson]

The program is clearly trending downward. And it's going to get worse before it gets better. There's no way Lon should get another year or two based on buddy and co. overachieving two years ago. They made the final 4 in spite of him, not because of.

The writing is on the wall. Next year is looking like another 20 loss, bottom of the conference finish. Why wait for that to fire him? Or are we waiting until the program hits rock bottom again so Kruger can do what he does best?

Thing that bothers me the most is the lack of consistent effort/intensity, which is a reflection of the coach. That's something you never had to worry about when KS was the here.

 

[tmeyer3307]

Won't our practice facilities be done and ready for next season?? If so we are at the top or close in that category. I fell in love with OU in the late 90s early 2000s and it was the basketball teams that got my attention followed by football. I get OU is a football school and always will be, but I want a competitive team(every year) that has a chance to do well in the big 12 and NCAA tournament maybe once every 4-5 years basically. I don't think that's asking too much. I like Lon and I would say he's done great and deserves to be back next season. If next year goes bad bad I would try to find a young coach and start over.

 

[MrAnderson]

So many people forget this. I don't quite understand OU basketball fans on this either.

Capel: 5 years, 2 tournament appearances (both with the #1 pick in Blake Griffin), 2 years after which were terrible and ended up getting OU in serious trouble with scholarship reductions and probation. This was also with guys like Willie Warren and Tiny Gallon who were top recruits.

Kruger: 7 years, what will be 5 tournament appearances, 1 sweet 16, 1 final four. Only missed the tournament his 1st year and then last year.


I guess my question is, what exactly are OU fans wanting? Constant final fours? Conference titles? What exactly should OU be doing?

I mean seriously, look at our facilities. Take a look at them. Where does the LNC rank in the Big 12 for arenas? Where does the practice facilities that are currently here rank in the Big 12? I would put both last or near last. What about fan support? Do OU fans support the program with donations or attendance, or are they in the middle of the conference in that? I'd argue for attendance, they are in the middle, and donations, I would argue they are near the bottom of the league considering our facilities.

Reality is, OU is a football school. Fans know this, donors know this. OU is exactly where they are compared to the donations and facilities, which is a middle program who can have some great peaks, but is just average overall. I mean, Lon Kruger himself is tied for 3rd technically in salaries in the Big 12, but when you add Dixon's contract, Kruger is tied for 4th in the Big 12 for salary. That's a final four coach who is tied for 4th in the Big 12 in salaries at $3.1 million. Shaka Smart, a coach who is younger and hasn't done nearly as much makes the exact same as Kruger. So for all this anger and talk of Kruger being let go, fans really have a false expectation for this program.


Like for everyone who wants Kruger to go, name a replacement that could do even close to the same that OU could get. Remember the facilities, salary, donations, being a football first program when you start naming names.

Past results are not necessarily an indicator of future results. There are however plenty of indicators that are signaling that the program is in decline. And if/when next year is a repeat of last it will be in total free fall

 

[BoulderSooner]

The program is clearly trending downward. And it's going to get worse before it gets better. There's no way Lon should get another year or two based on buddy and co. overachieving two years ago. They made the final 4 in spite of him, not because of.

The writing is on the wall. Next year is looking like another 20 loss, bottom of the conference finish. Why wait for that to fire him? Or are we waiting until the program hits rock bottom again so Kruger can do what he does best?

Thing that bothers me the most is the lack of consistent effort/intensity, which is a reflection of the coach. That's something you never had to worry about when KS was the here.

wrong

 

[MrAnderson]

wrong

Insightful. Thanks, Donald.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Who recruited and coaches those not good players?

Please read the part about recruiting. I'm sure you don't support and encourage cheating and buying players. Go back and watch the first half. How many open shots - with players positioned very well do you see? Easy shots that were then missed.

It is not the coaches fault when basketball players miss easy shots. It is the coaches role to teach the players to position themselves correctly. Which is what happened. They just missed the easy shots. That falls on the player's shoulders - not the coaches.

 

[Eielson]

If we're going to put an asterisk by Capel's season with Blake, are we going to put an asterisk by Kruger's seasons with Buddy? When you take that into account, their tenures have been essentially identical. With the one exception being that Kruger is clean.

 

[chuckb]

Insightful. Thanks, Donald.

He gave you more courtesy than your ludicrous post warranted. The team is going to win several more games this year than last year and return to the NCAA tournament. There's a top 50 player coming in next year and another one committed for the following year. From McGusty to Young to Bieniemy to Harmon, these are the highest rated recruits in the history of the program. It is objectively false to say that the program is trending downward. The season is. The program isn't.

Thanks for waiting until the team lost some games to show up here and provide us all with your insight. Maybe if you'd been around and provided it while the team was winning several games in a row, we'd all be as knowledgeable about the game as you. Hopefully you'll stop be to provide some insight after the team beats ISU Friday but I sort of doubt it. We'll probably hear from you again when they lose in the Big 12 tournament. See you then.

 

[stormspencer]

He gave you more courtesy than your ludicrous post warranted. The team is going to win several more games this year than last year and return to the NCAA tournament. There's a top 50 player coming in next year and another one committed for the following year. From McGusty to Young to Bieniemy to Harmon, these are the highest rated recruits in the history of the program. It is objectively false to say that the program is trending downward. The season is. The program isn't.

Thanks for waiting until the team lost some games to show up here and provide us all with your insight. Maybe if you'd been around and provided it while the team was winning several games in a row, we'd all be as knowledgeable about the game as you. Hopefully you'll stop be to provide some insight after the team beats ISU Friday but I sort of doubt it. We'll probably hear from you again when they lose in the Big 12 tournament. See you then.

Chuck, I get what your are saying.....but my question is are the pieces (recruits) going to fit correctly into the puzzle to make this a cohesive unit? This year has shown that an extremely highly regarded recruit has been a blessing...and a curse. I don't feel confident about the trajectory of this program right now with regards to the sum of the parts....something or someone is out of whack. I do hope that you're right in the long run, but I just don't sense that right now....sorry.

 

[MrAnderson]

He gave you more courtesy than your ludicrous post warranted. The team is going to win several more games this year than last year and return to the NCAA tournament. There's a top 50 player coming in next year and another one committed for the following year. From McGusty to Young to Bieniemy to Harmon, these are the highest rated recruits in the history of the program. It is objectively false to say that the program is trending downward. The season is. The program isn't.

Thanks for waiting until the team lost some games to show up here and provide us all with your insight. Maybe if you'd been around and provided it while the team was winning several games in a row, we'd all be as knowledgeable about the game as you. Hopefully you'll stop be to provide some insight after the team beats ISU Friday but I sort of doubt it. We'll probably hear from you again when they lose in the Big 12 tournament. See you then.

Ad hominem. Typical. And i will come and go as I please thank you. The in group/out group mentality of internet message boards never ceases to amuse me.

Look, Kruger is just an average in game coach, and probably below average in getting guys motivated/ready to play. I cant speak to recruiting but several current players have regressed/stayed the same for one or more years, indicating poor player development. His teams have no toughness either.

If young isn't a local kid then you're staring at 3 straight losing seasons in all likelihood, starting last year. As for the final 4 year, it's looking more and more like an anomaly.

Again, they are not only losing but this team continues to suffer from what appears to be apathy, softness, low bball IQ, chemistry issues, etc. Things that are reflective of a head coach. We have the best player in the country and finish below .500 in conference? Gimme a break.