Big 12 Tournament Discussion Thread

I would add that Big 12 teams should adjust their schedules as well... If you are asking mid-majors to adjust theirs.

OU should play Tulsa, Wichita State, Colorado State, Richmond, Northern Iowa, New Mexico instead of Maryland Eastern Shore, William & Mary, UTSA, UTRGV, etc. They won't do that because they know they will lose more games. Plain and simple.

We saw what happened this year when OU scheduled legitimate mid-majors. Crazy risk. Lost to Wichita State, beat UCF by 1, beat North Texas by 2. Props for scheduling them and beating them, but they won't want to play more teams like that in one season. If they did, they would have more losses and be exposed. Just like Texas Tech would.
 
Please do the same breakdown for Northern Iowa's schedule and their quality wins, bad losses, etc.
 
I agree. Maybe there should be some automatic threshold. Like if you win 20 games in a power conference you're in. Win 25 in a mid major, you're in.

That would probably cause a lot of issues with cupcake scheduling in the non-conference though.
Rutgers is 19-11 in a very tough Big 10.

They are 17-1 at home and 2-8 on the road. The two road wins are over Nebraska (7-24) and Purdue (16-15). They also lost their only neutral court game, against St. Bonaventure.

If 20 wins in a power conference gave an automatic berth, wouldn't everybody schedule like Rutgers?
 
I would add that Big 12 teams should adjust their schedules as well... If you are asking mid-majors to adjust theirs.

OU should play Tulsa, Wichita State, Colorado State, Richmond, Northern Iowa, New Mexico instead of Maryland Eastern Shore, William & Mary, UTSA, UTRGV, etc. They won't do that because they know they will lose more games. Plain and simple.

We saw what happened this year when OU scheduled legitimate mid-majors. Crazy risk. Lost to Wichita State, beat UCF by 1, beat North Texas by 2. Props for scheduling them and beating them, but they won't want to play more teams like that in one season. If they did, they would have more losses and be exposed. Just like Texas Tech would.

OU had the #30 NCSOS, which was the 4th toughest out of all the major conference teams.

Northern Iowa's NCSOS was #132.
 
Rutgers is 19-11 in a very tough Big 10.

They are 17-1 at home and 2-8 on the road. The two road wins are over Nebraska (7-24) and Purdue (16-15). They also lost their only neutral court game, against St. Bonaventure.

If 20 wins in a power conference gave an automatic berth, wouldn't everybody schedule like Rutgers?

#308 NCSOS. How to inflate one's win-loss record is to schedule a weak non-conference schedule.
 
OU doesn't need to change one thing on its scheduling. Mike Shepard had this new system figured out long before anybody else. Pure sorcery to be so far ahead of the game.

I still feel the system rewards mediocrity, but our staff figured out a way to manipulate it a bit and it's helped to put us in the tourney three years in a row.
 
I would add that Big 12 teams should adjust their schedules as well... If you are asking mid-majors to adjust theirs.

OU should play Tulsa, Wichita State, Colorado State, Richmond, Northern Iowa, New Mexico instead of Maryland Eastern Shore, William & Mary, UTSA, UTRGV, etc. They won't do that because they know they will lose more games. Plain and simple.

We saw what happened this year when OU scheduled legitimate mid-majors. Crazy risk. Lost to Wichita State, beat UCF by 1, beat North Texas by 2. Props for scheduling them and beating them, but they won't want to play more teams like that in one season. If they did, they would have more losses and be exposed. Just like Texas Tech would.

Uh, OU schedules more difficult noncon games than just about anyone. Not only that, they play many of those games away from home. This year we actually ended up with a couple more weak teams than usual, partially because one of those games was the on-campus part of the Hall of Fame Classic and I don't think we had much control over who we played in that game.

The funny thing is, last year a lot of people on this board were complaining that we scheduled too tough. Lon has been here long enough that people should understand that he doesn't duck teams and is willing to play just about anyone, anywhere. Of course we will have a handful of relatively weak opponents each year -- when you play in a great league and also play several good/great noncon games, you need to give yourself a few easier games. You also list a handful of teams that you cherry-pick because they are good this year. Would UNI, Richmond, or Tulsa boost our schedule in seasons where they aren't any good? Tulsa would have been a drag on our schedule the vast majority of the time in recent seasons.

The reason mid-majors should adjust their schedules is because if they don't, there is no real way to assess how they would do against elite competition. When a team plays in the Big 12 or one of the other top leagues, the committee gets plenty of chances to see how they stack up against good teams.
 
OU doesn't need to change one thing on its scheduling. Mike Shepard had this new system figured out long before anybody else. Pure sorcery to be so far ahead of the game.

I still feel the system rewards mediocrity, but our staff figured out a way to manipulate it a bit and it's helped to put us in the tourney three years in a row.

this is 100% he has done such a good job crafting OU's schedule
 
OU doesn't need to change one thing on its scheduling. Mike Shepard had this new system figured out long before anybody else. Pure sorcery to be so far ahead of the game.

I still feel the system rewards mediocrity, but our staff figured out a way to manipulate it a bit and it's helped to put us in the tourney three years in a row.

I think Having Joe C on the selection committee helped out a lot also. He knew what changes were coming and relayed the information. Good work by everyone involved at the university
 
Would the mid major tournament include teams like Gonzaga, SDSU, Dayton? All projected top 2 seeds this year

Of course.....as well as UNI, Tulsa and LA Tech. By the way, an NCAA mid major title is still a title.
 
I would add that Big 12 teams should adjust their schedules as well... If you are asking mid-majors to adjust theirs.

OU should play Tulsa, Wichita State, Colorado State, Richmond, Northern Iowa, New Mexico instead of Maryland Eastern Shore, William & Mary, UTSA, UTRGV, etc. They won't do that because they know they will lose more games. Plain and simple.

We saw what happened this year when OU scheduled legitimate mid-majors. Crazy risk. Lost to Wichita State, beat UCF by 1, beat North Texas by 2. Props for scheduling them and beating them, but they won't want to play more teams like that in one season. If they did, they would have more losses and be exposed. Just like Texas Tech would.

I do not know how to do the separate quotes within in a post (amateur), so I will address a couple of your thoughts:
Exactly... Texas Tech losing to every good team they played shouldn't be rewarded with an NCAA Tournament bid.
Tech beat Louisville (3 seed or better) on a neutral floor. They also beat us, WV and @Texas. They've proven they can go toe-to-toe with the best teams in the country (lost @KU by 3 and @Baylor by 3; also lost close games at home to both schools).

Richmond had (19) Q-3/Q-4 games and went 18-1. They had a really good neutral floor win over Wisconsin as well. However, they only got to play Dayton once (lost to them in Richmond) and were blown out several times against decent to good competition (Auburn, VCU, St. Louis, Bama). Yes Tech's record isn't great, but they were more competitive against a much more difficult schedule.

UNI's schedule was pretty bad....(22) Q-3/Q-4 games and went 19-3. They had a really good @Colorado...and that's about it. The Mo Valley was down this year and they feasted on it for the most part. They should learn not to lose a Q-3 game by 21 points in your conference quarterfinals.

At some point, metrics have to come into play. That is the best and most reasonable way to equate differing schedules and reconciling those schedules with results. I don't really like the NET, so let's take Kenpom (or any other advanced analytics model you want). Tech (#21) is substantially better in virtually all of them from a results and efficiency standpoint than either Richmond (#46) or UNI (#48). That tells me that if the schedules were flipped, than Tech would potentially have a much better record and UNI/Richmond would have a much worse record. But like you said, we'll never know.

Maybe, maybe not. But Northern Iowa won 25 games and only lost 6. Texas Tech is barely .500. That should matter.
If this is going to be a criteria, then do we start to look at teams like Wright State (25-7) and Radford (21-11) and give them some consideration? Both had good records (moreso Wright State), won their league, but got ousted in their conference tournaments. I'm just not sure how much you can weigh "records" when, in a way through analytics, they are already being accounted for.

And like I said, I'm not against Richmond making it in at all, but not in place of Tech. They should make it in place of NC State or Stanford. I'm not real high on UNI (and wasn't ever) making it because they simply are not one of the best 30-32 teams after you include the auto-qualifiers.

Good discussion though.
 
I guarantee you San Diego State would rather play an 18-15 Texas Tech team over a 25-7 Richmond team. It's not just the record either... A lot of times those good mid-major teams are veteran, older teams with good skill. We see it every year in March.

Teams don't like playing teams like this in a tournament setting as a higher seed... They like playing average-at-best, young, inexperienced teams like Texas Tech. Why? Because Tech is no good.

Couldn't disagree with you more. Tech has proven on multiple occasions this season that they can play with anyone (including very close losses each to two #1 seeds). No 1-seed wants to see Tech in the 8/9 game. Hell, no 2-seed would want to see Tech in the 7/10 pod in their bracket either. Tech has been there recently and knows what it takes to win these games. That is why they are they are far more dangerous in this situation.
 
College football has a minimum win threshold. You can't go to a bowl unless you win 6 games. College basketball has no minimum win or maximum loss threshold. Nobody is like, "well, Kansas only 3 games last year, but they played a lot of great teams! They should get to play in the John Deere Iowa Bowl!"... But that logic is applied in college basketball.A

The minimum is 6 which is half your games. Have you every seen a .500 team make the Dance in basketball?

Also when you have a 7-5 SEC team & a 9-3 Mountain West team guess who plays in the better bowl game.
 
The minimum is 6 which is half your games. Have you every seen a .500 team make the Dance in basketball?

Also when you have a 7-5 SEC team & a 9-3 Mountain West team guess who plays in the better bowl game.


The one with the larger following?
 
I would add that Big 12 teams should adjust their schedules as well... If you are asking mid-majors to adjust theirs.

OU doesn’t get cake games in their conference schedule.

OU had the 15th toughest non-con SOS
Richmond- 77
UNI- 86
Tulsa- 122
LA Tech- 138

So I don’t think the Big12 needs to change their schedules when every one of their overall schedules are tougher than these 4 teams’ non-con schedule, the one they can control.
 
I will concede that for the most part, OU is a bad example in terms of scheduling. They played a good schedule.

OU doesn’t get cake games in their conference schedule.

Hogwash.... OSU started 0-9 or something in the league. Kansas State sucks.. Iowa State sucks. They get a pretty good dose of unsavory teams.

The reason mid-majors should adjust their schedules is because if they don't, there is no real way to assess how they would do against elite competition. When a team plays in the Big 12 or one of the other top leagues, the committee gets plenty of chances to see how they stack up against good teams.

I don't know how prevalent this is in basketball, but a lot of times the bigger schools hold so much sway when scheduling. Will high majors regularly agree to go on the road and play good mid-majors? Does LA Tech schedule weaker teams to pad wins, or because its difficult to get other schools to agree to play them regularly?

I wonder if home-and-away contracts could be designed for this? Unfortunately, that would result in playing the same team twice. For example, OU agrees to games (in a single season) with Northern Iowa. They play them at home, and then some other time in the season play them in Iowa.

The reason I bring that up, is I don't know its necessarily a fair metric that Texas Tech gets to play all their league games at home to prove their worth, but Northern Iowa likely only has a chance to go to Lubbock to prove their worth.

The better team?

Subjective... A lot of times "the better team" is simply being gauged by who they played, not even really who they beat. That's why everyone keeps including SOS, because Tech played the #1 team 4-5 times this year. They didn't win them, but it pads the stat. If Richmond played in the Big 12 this year, would they go 0-18? Or would they be competitive and have chances at good wins like Tech, OU, etc had?
 
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