Capel can Coach

[qwertyqaz]

Is he a prophet? Can he see into the future

I agree with your overall point...I just thought this part of your post was funny.

 

[campbest]

I always see this thrown out there but it doesn't make sense to me. Is capel suppose to be able to tell that the kids are uncoachable? Is he a prophet? Can he see into the future or really see what a kid is really like just from recruiting him? I don't blame capel at all for bringing them in. Unless the kid has obvious problems then you don't pass on MDAAs

Maybe not to the full extent, he's not a prophet like you said. However, in BOB's defense, there was a poster on here (want to say it was KCOUkid, forgive me if I am mistaken) who attended a handful of TMG's high school games. Mentioned how "disinterested" TMG looked with his teammates and it was not uncommon for TMG to not cross halfcourt if he wasn't involved in the offensive play.

Think these were telling signs which got lost in the hype of TMG's basketball skills.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I always see this thrown out there but it doesn't make sense to me. Is capel suppose to be able to tell that the kids are uncoachable? Is he a prophet? Can he see into the future or really see what a kid is really like just from recruiting him? I don't blame capel at all for bringing them in. Unless the kid has obvious problems then you don't pass on MDAAs

basketball is different from football, but when you get down to it they are all high school kids. So, why doesn't Stoops have this problem in football recruiting?

Sure, every other year or so he signs a Jarboe, or the kid from Vegas who attacked his gf with an ice pick, but year in and year out he signs 20 players and 90% of them either graduate or sign professional contracts. Very few peter out and have problems. With 20+ recruits every year, wouldn't you think he would have a higher number of flame-outs (than what he's had)?

So, is Bob Stoops a prophet or can he see into the future? By your logic he is, but I know better. He and his coaches are taking the time to get to know the kids and to find out which ones are a fit for his program. Fit the culture of OU, and Norman and who will come in and work hard to win championships. If they skip class, he holds them accountable and the same if they skip practice.

Last year, Capel didn't do that, why? Why is it Stoops can find the kids who don't cause problems or flame-out, but Capel can't? Please help me understand.

And, I'm not just talking about TMG, Tiny, or WW. How about all the other players Capel has recruited that were booted before school ever started (Early), or just left? How many of those were also skipping class or practice without any ramifications? We know of TMG, Tiny, and WW, but I'm sure others can be found.

I say all of this to further my point that the program is in this position because of Capel. Is he climbing out of it? Yes, and nobody is happier than me, but he's still got a lot of climbing to do. I hope he doesn't slip and have to start over because that could be bad for the basketball program.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

it seems like we have this discussion on this board every week. If you don't think it happens in football you are high.

How many of those were also skipping class or practice without any ramifications? We know of TMG, Tiny, and WW, but I'm sure others can be found.

This is just an ignorant statement on so many levels.

 

[sybarite]

So, is Bob Stoops a prophet or can he see into the future? By your logic he is, but I know better. He and his coaches are taking the time to get to know the kids and to find out which ones are a fit for his program. Fit the culture of OU, and Norman and who will come in and work hard to win championships. If they skip class, he holds them accountable and the same if they skip practice.

The most highly-ranked quarterback that Stoops ever recruited did what? He was paid to sell automobiles, or what? How many other starters were involved? We almost lost another superstar over it.

It happens in football as much as in basketball. It is easier to cover when you have twenty-five recruits and eighty-five players rather than a few recruits and thirteen on a team. But, how many of those who never see the field were simply not doing what it takes to play? They had the talent, but didn't have the drive to make it.

We have seen offensive linemen disappear in class after class. We ridicule the linemen and say it is an exception, except that we lost so many. How many of those highly-recruited running backs actually play? We have a stable of non-used superstars that simply sit on the sidelines.

Meanwhile, Stoops is in an entirely different situation. How many teams have won more national titles than Oklahoma? How many have won more titles in the past sixty years than Oklahoma. Bane the team that has a higher winning percentage in the post-war era. The football team has the tradition to be able to reach into other states and recruit their best. We have had the top recruits from talent-rich Florida, Louisiana, and Texas. We have had superstars from California. We even had a couple from Omaha. We can get more of the best because we are Oklahoma. We are, in football, the Duke, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA, or North Carolina, i.e., the established leader of the pack. Yet, we don't always get it right. Is that auto dealer still in Norman?

 

[Big Old Booger]

The most highly-ranked quarterback that Stoops ever recruited did what? He was paid to sell automobiles, or what? How many other starters were involved? We almost lost another superstar over it.

It happens in football as much as in basketball. It is easier to cover when you have twenty-five recruits and eighty-five players rather than a few recruits and thirteen on a team. But, how many of those who never see the field were simply not doing what it takes to play? They had the talent, but didn't have the drive to make it.

We have seen offensive linemen disappear in class after class. We ridicule the linemen and say it is an exception, except that we lost so many. How many of those highly-recruited running backs actually play? We have a stable of non-used superstars that simply sit on the sidelines.

Meanwhile, Stoops is in an entirely different situation. How many teams have won more national titles than Oklahoma? How many have won more titles in the past sixty years than Oklahoma. Bane the team that has a higher winning percentage in the post-war era. The football team has the tradition to be able to reach into other states and recruit their best. We have had the top recruits from talent-rich Florida, Louisiana, and Texas. We have had superstars from California. We even had a couple from Omaha. We can get more of the best because we are Oklahoma. We are, in football, the Duke, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA, or North Carolina, i.e., the established leader of the pack. Yet, we don't always get it right. Is that auto dealer still in Norman?

So, do we need to go back over all of Capel's recruiting classes and prove it does not happen as much in football as basketball? In the TMG/Tiny recruiting class, they had 4 or 5 players and 2 of them flamed-out. That's either 40 or 50%. Name me one OU football recruiting class that had that many flame-outs. In addition, name me any football recruit who was allowed to skip practice or class and still played in the next football game.

You can't and that is why the basketball program is in it's current state.

 

[Big Old Booger]

it seems like we have this discussion on this board every week. If you don't think it happens in football you are high.

This is just an ignorant statement on so many levels.

So, it happens as much in football?

I never said it didn't happen in football. Heck, I even named a few examples. I said it is happening with more regularity and on a higher scale in basketball than it does in football, yet most would say it should happen in football more simply because of the number of kids signed each year. How can a football coach sign 20+ kids per year (on average) and only have 2-3 flame-outs per year? Yet a basketball coach signs 4-5 per year and has 2-3 flameouts per year? How does that happen? Why is Stoops able to better assess the kids he's recruiting yet to this point Capel has not? Is it AAU?

I think it's very short-sighted for anybody to use the line "he's not a prophet; he can't see into the future" as a defense for the large number of problem recruits Capel has had in his 5 years at OU. This year hasn't been as bad, but we still lost our top (or 2nd highest) recruit from the last recruiting class. That is a bad deal and will hurt us next year and probably has already hurt us this year.

 

[sybarite]

Let's see. We had an entire recruiting class of offensive linemen disappear for about two years. We have had class-skipping, and we have had others who simply didn't do their job in the weight room.

You appear to have a vendetta against Capel that prohibits you from seeing anything other than a failure. He also went to the Elite Eight before he had any real talent other than one.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

So, do we need to go back over all of Capel's recruiting classes and prove it does not happen as much in football as basketball? In the TMG/Tiny recruiting class, they had 4 or 5 players and 2 of them flamed-out. That's either 40 or 50%. Name me one OU football recruiting class that had that many flame-outs. In addition, name me any football recruit who was allowed to skip practice or class and still played in the next football game.

You can't and that is why the basketball program is in it's current state.

yeah b/c 1.) one year is a good sample size
2.) football and bball is comparable
3.) we hear about all the defects of an 85+ roster

all with a hint of sarcasm

plus bball players stick in our mind more b/c of how few players there are. if we sat down and thought about it, we could name a bunch of football players

 

[Big Old Booger]

The most highly-ranked quarterback that Stoops ever recruited did what? He was paid to sell automobiles, or what? How many other starters were involved? We almost lost another superstar over it.

It happens in football as much as in basketball. It is easier to cover when you have twenty-five recruits and eighty-five players rather than a few recruits and thirteen on a team. But, how many of those who never see the field were simply not doing what it takes to play? They had the talent, but didn't have the drive to make it.

We have seen offensive linemen disappear in class after class. We ridicule the linemen and say it is an exception, except that we lost so many. How many of those highly-recruited running backs actually play? We have a stable of non-used superstars that simply sit on the sidelines.

Meanwhile, Stoops is in an entirely different situation. How many teams have won more national titles than Oklahoma? How many have won more titles in the past sixty years than Oklahoma. Bane the team that has a higher winning percentage in the post-war era. The football team has the tradition to be able to reach into other states and recruit their best. We have had the top recruits from talent-rich Florida, Louisiana, and Texas. We have had superstars from California. We even had a couple from Omaha. We can get more of the best because we are Oklahoma. We are, in football, the Duke, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA, or North Carolina, i.e., the established leader of the pack. Yet, we don't always get it right. Is that auto dealer still in Norman?

Who was the other superstar we almost lost? AD had nothing to do with Big Red sports and imports, so please remind me of the other "superstar".

AD bought a car for the weekend but his mom told him to take it back. The NCAA investigated and found nothing. Case closed.

Syb -- aren't you a college professor at OU? Are you one of the ones complaining about the difference in salaries for the football coach in comparison to the college professors? I've heard a number of the professors think their pay should be closer to Stoops...they even have been asking Castiglione about it at the monthly meetings.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

Out of curiosity, how far back does that go? I know we've had 2 Final Fours in what I refer to as the 'modern era'.

Mrs. The NCAA site lists Final Four teams from 1938 to present. I think that is where his stats come from.

 

[Big Old Booger]

yeah b/c 1.) one year is a good sample size
2.) football and bball is comparable
3.) we hear about all the defects of an 85+ roster

all with a hint of sarcasm

plus bball players stick in our mind more b/c of how few players there are. if we sat down and thought about it, we could name a bunch of football players

That's where you are wrong.

Go back to the 2008 recruiting class:
Willie Warren
Orlando Allen
Kyle Cannon
Patillo
Ray Willis

How many of those are still here? How many left because of the NBA? (1; Warren) But he was a malcontent and was a big problem on last years team.

He's already lost 2 from last years class (I had forgotten about Ahmed) and will probably lose 1 or 2 more (Thompson; which isn't altogether bad, but why was he recruited in the first place?).

 

[Big Old Booger]

Let's see. We had an entire recruiting class of offensive linemen disappear for about two years. We have had class-skipping, and we have had others who simply didn't do their job in the weight room.

You appear to have a vendetta against Capel that prohibits you from seeing anything other than a failure. He also went to the Elite Eight before he had any real talent other than one.

Nope. No vendetta against Capel. Just making a point that the current state of the program is his fault. Nobody else to blame. He recruited the kids and it's not that he just had a few that were "uncoachable" that fell into his lap.

As I've said, though, he seems to have learned from it and I am glad. I hope we continue to improve but have a long ways to go.

Also, maybe his recruiting has improved. Maybe after last year he has learned you have to get to know the kids you are bringing into your program, although a few weeks ago he did say he would recruit Tiny and TMG all over again if he had the chance, so maybe not. Recruiting is a big part of any sport. Not only do you need talent, but you need kids who won't disrupt the chemistry and who will work hard and force others to work hard. This year he has a team full of kids that fit that and so maybe now we aren't taking chances on kids who have talent but nothing upstairs.

 

[sybarite]

You have one problem in basketball that you don't have in football. I've had coaches tell me that you begin building football programs by getting an offensive line. Yet, none of these players will ever score a point, nor will their name be shouted by the public address announcer. They just do the dirty work on every play. Then, you have the defense, again who aren't likely to score. A defensive tackle may actually be pretty good and only make three tackles per game. Yet, he is the one doing the grunt work that makes it all possible.

Now, show me the basketball recruit who would come to OU if you told him he would not score, nor would his name be mentioned by the public address announcer. He wants to score all the points and leave after a year or two for the pros.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You have one problem in basketball that you don't have in football. I've had coaches tell me that you begin building football programs by getting an offensive line. Yet, none of these players will ever score a point, nor will their name be shouted by the public address announcer. They just do the dirty work on every play. Then, you have the defense, again who aren't likely to score. A defensive tackle may actually be pretty good and only make three tackles per game. Yet, he is the one doing the grunt work that makes it all possible.

Now, show me the basketball recruit who would come to OU if you told him he would not score, nor would his name be mentioned by the public address announcer. He wants to score all the points and leave after a year or two for the pros.

Did you ever play a team sport? Most positions in football or any other sport don't score and aren't glory positions. For every Blake Griffin, Sam Bradford, and Wayman Tisdale, you have thousands of Joszef Szendrei's, Jason White's, and Kevin Bookout's. If every team player were so selfish as to worry about getting their name called on the PA then every athlete would play tennis or golf.

I'm pretty sure guys like Taylor Griffin and Cade Davis knew the chances were very slim they would ever get to play professionally. The same for Renzi Stone, Tim Heskett, Ernie Abercrombie, etc. The chance to get a free education and possibly play for championships is all anyone can ask for.

Did you know the highest paid position in the NFL (on average) behind the QB (and possibly RB) is the right tackle? That's an offensive line position.

I'm not commenting any further in this thread about past recruiting misses. I think I've made my point and no reason to continue to re-hash it. I think we are moving in the right direction now and that's all that matters.

 

[qwertyqaz]

To the thread title:

Yeah, he can.

*END SCENE*

 

[Sooner04]

Capel's biggest problem has been his ability to scout and sign the "glue" guys. The four-year program fillers. Kelvin was a master in that art, and it's something Jeff will need to improve on tremendously as he goes forward with our program.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Capel's biggest problem has been his ability to scout and sign the "glue" guys. The four-year program fillers. Kelvin was a master in that art, and it's something Jeff will need to improve on tremendously as he goes forward with our program.

Agreed. And, some of the guys he signed that left could have fit that role but they left.

Cade Davis is a glue guy, as are Pledger and Fitz. I would also put Tyler Neal in that spot before he's done.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

That's where you are wrong.

Go back to the 2008 recruiting class:
Willie Warren
Orlando Allen
Kyle Cannon
Patillo
Ray Willis

How many of those are still here? How many left because of the NBA? (1; Warren) But he was a malcontent and was a big problem on last years team.

He's already lost 2 from last years class (I had forgotten about Ahmed) and will probably lose 1 or 2 more (Thompson; which isn't altogether bad, but why was he recruited in the first place?).

Go check around college bball. Its bad everywhere. I don't blame a coach for signing a 5* that hasn't had any problems in the past. You think you would have been happy if capel passed on TMG? Hell no. None of us would have been. A lot of those guys you listed weren't big 12 players. Some of that is capels fault at talent evaluation. Some of it is that we needed to fill some spots. I also don't blame a coach if a kid can't get his **** together in the classroom.

Which reminds me. You keep bringing up how Capel wouldn't punish WW, TMG & gallon, etc for misses activities, class, etc. Have any links to that?

 

[Sam]

Agreed. And, some of the guys he signed that left could have fit that role but they left.

Cade Davis is a glue guy, as are Pledger and Fitz. I would also put Tyler Neal in that spot before he's done.

Yep, if Newell stays as well and starts to figure it out I think he would be one as well. I think Blair for 3 years would be considered one as well.

Capel is starting to show some signs of identifying these kids but he's still hitting and missing at about a 50% clip on the kids.