Castiglione this morning on LNC renovations

[WTSooner]

Yeah I do too. I think the biggest thing is we need some luck in the tourney bracket like not playing Duke less than a few hours from Durham or Kentucky a few hours from Lexington or even playing either of those programs at all.

That's my biggest concern is we get screwed with a crappy matchup in the round of 16 or 8. Kinda like when we played Louisville in Birmingham in 88, that was a tough matchup but we won it anyway.

One of the latest bracketologies had OU as the 1 and Michigan State as the 3 in one bracket. I'd hate to see that.

 

[Zimwillett]

I'm baffled every season when some OU fans insist on bringing those 20+ year old tournament disappointments as if they have anything to do with the current season. Seriously, was a single player on this current team even alive when the ULALA game was played?

 

[Big Old Booger]

Louisiana Lafayette - Tubbs was the coach
Manhattan - major upset OU majorly overachieved that season and ran out of gas.
Temple not an upset. OU was a 10 seed, Temple was a 7
Stanford not an upset. OU was an 11 seed, Stanford was a 6
Indiana not an upset. OU was a 10 seed, Indiana was 7.
Indiana State Major upset. OU kicked JR Raymond off the team before the Tournament, Hollis got injured during the game, and OU lost in OT
Wisconsin-Milwaukee - notable upset. OU was a 6 UW-Mil was an 11
San Diego State not an upset. OU was a 10 seed, San Diego State was a 7 seed.
North Dakota State notable upset. OU was a five seed, UND was a 12.

It doesn't sound like you are defender. It sounds like you want to make it look like OU has been upset in the tournament numerous times when in fact of the games you listed only 4 were upsets in the Sampson or Kruger era.

First round losses are not a bad thing. A bad things is when an incompetent jackass, such as Capel, fails to take the team to even the post season let alone the NCAA Tournament.

Yes I was aware the Lou-La game was with Tubbs as I said at the end of my post, those are the first round losses in my lifetime.

I agree with the defenses you presented for each of them and I have used those same arguments before, however like I said, the people who are OU football fans first only remember we had a lot of first round exits. I have a number of friends who fall into this category. They don't follow basketball enough to know most of those losses were to teams seeded higher than us, all they point out is we lost in the first round.

The whole basis for that post was pointing out its going to take more than a win at LSU or a seed in the tourney or even a sweet 16 or final 4 to give donations the boost they need. I think a final 4 could provide more funding but after 2002's team did donations increase by a notable amount? I'm asking because I don't recall but I know the current practice facilities, offices and locker rooms were upgraded prior to that season. Which incidentally was also when we were in the middle of the football stadium renovations (with the east side upper deck) like this year. So even though we are again upgrading the football stadium it's possible they decide to make renovations to the LNC or the practice facilities even without an NC though I think an NC would provide the shot in the arm the basketball program needs to upgrade facilities.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm baffled every season when some OU fans insist on bringing those 20+ year old tournament disappointments as if they have anything to do with the current season. Seriously, was a single player on this current team even alive when the ULALA game was played?

Read my reply to Denver but the reason for my post with those games was answering the fact most OU football fans, who casually follow basketball, don't recall we over-achieved to make the tourney in most of those years. They just recall the first round losses.

Earlier in this thread a poster asked if the LSU win was enough to spur donations for facility upgrades. I then replied the casual fan only knows us as a program that loses in the first round more than not so it would take way more than a win at LSU to spur more donations.

The last thing I was doing was trying to say OU is a perennial first round loser and I apologize if my post was taken that way. I defend the program to my friends who say "we will probably lose in the first round anyway like every year". Yes, I have quite a few friends who feel that way. Heck, just look at the football boards and see what they say about the basketball program.

 

[DenverSooner]

I agree with the defenses you presented for each of them and I have used those same arguments before, however like I said, the people who are OU football fans first only remember we had a lot of first round exits.

They are not defenses, they are facts (most of them, Manhattan is an opinion).

You started this by acting like OU has a huge history of first round losses. That is not true. OU has a handful of upset losses and then lost some games where they were the lower seeded team. Just speak the truth and moronic friends will get it.

 

[Big Old Booger]

They are not defenses, they are facts (most of them, Manhattan is an opinion).

You started this by acting like OU has a huge history of first round losses. That is not true. OU has a handful of upset losses and then lost some games where they were the lower seeded team. Just speak the truth and moronic friends will get it.

I do. Believe me, I correct them every time and it's facts to you and me but not everybody. It is what it is, and there is no getting around it. The fact of the matter is the basketball donations will start to happen (donations to build better facilities) when the basketball program takes the next step. Right now a final 4 every 15 years with a bunch of 1st round losses between final 4 appearances isn't taking that next step. We can sugarcoat it with facts all we want but the losses happened and they happened a lot in a little over a 20 year time period (1992 - 2014). Sadly, that's how a lot of people view the basketball program and the knucklehead hire Joe C made before Kruger didn't help (thanks to probation and off the court incidents). It's a wonder we now have the #1 team with a great chance to win the NC.

So get your panties out of a wad move on.

 

[skyvue]

So get your panties out of a wad move on.

I own no panties and my boxers are not in a wad. I get now where you're coming from, but you've been acting as though we're misconstruing your words.

We're not; we're taking them at face value.

let's face it, that is our history as a program in the NCAA.

You didn't say, "Let's face it, those first-round losses are all many casual fans remember." That, we'd have easily understood (and probably agreed with). Instead, you stated outright that those losses are "our history," sounding very much as though you agreed with those Cletuses. Now you say you don't and I believe you, but it's not as though we were putting words in your mouth.

So now we're all clear and can move forward. But I might recommend you get some new friends. The ones you have sound pretty clueless.

 

[WaymanFan]

There is no point in trying to rewrite history. If you look at the 10 worst programs since 1985 (when the Tournament expanded to 64 teams) in the Dance based on seed, OU is definitely there...probably bottom 5. It is what it is. We should have won 8 games as a #4 seed, but our record is 1-4. The only way to counter that is to win the toss-up games...and OU has lost almost every single one. I was ecstatic when we beat St. Joes in 2008 since I viewed that as a toss-up game. OU was over-seeded (proved that against Louisville) and only a 4-point favorite to beat St. Joes. Other than 1987, we lost every other 1st round game when the opponent was seeded within 5 of OU.

All those negative facts aside, none of that will matter one bit this March...it will just make many of us more "cautiously optimistic" than over-confident.

 

[skyvue]

There is no point in trying to rewrite history. If you look at the 10 worst programs since 1985 (when the Tournament expanded to 64 teams) in the Dance based on seed, OU is definitely there...probably bottom 5. It is what it is. We should have won 8 games as a #4 seed, but our record is 1-4. The only way to counter that is to win the toss-up games...and OU has lost almost every single one. I was ecstatic when we beat St. Joes in 2008 since I viewed that as a toss-up game. OU was over-seeded (proved that against Louisville) and only a 4-point favorite to beat St. Joes. Other than 1987, we lost every other 1st round game when the opponent was seeded within 5 of OU.

All those negative facts aside, none of that will matter one bit this March...it will just make many of us more "cautiously optimistic" than over-confident.

No one's rewriting history. We presented facts, our full first-game record, plainly and simply. You, for reasons I'm not sure I grasp, are cherry-picking and/or misstating facts that make us look bad. For example, how, exactly, were we to win eight opening games as a four seed when we've only ever been the four seed four times (1986, 1992, 1995, 2001)? (Our record in those games was 1-3.) I thought maybe you meant as a TOP four seed, but no -- our record in those opening games is 11-3.

And we haven't won just one game when the opponent was seeded within 5 of OU, as you claimed; we've won two such games: vs. Tulsa in 1987 and vs. St. Joseph's in 2008. We are 2-2 in such games when we have the better seed. We are 0-4 as the worse seed in those games. Still not a sparkling record, admittedly, but we've been upset just twice in opening games by teams within five seeds of us. (We've also lost to teams with even worse seeds, but hey, I didn't set the parameters, you did.)

 

[Big Old Booger]

There is no point in trying to rewrite history. If you look at the 10 worst programs since 1985 (when the Tournament expanded to 64 teams) in the Dance based on seed, OU is definitely there...probably bottom 5. It is what it is. We should have won 8 games as a #4 seed, but our record is 1-4. The only way to counter that is to win the toss-up games...and OU has lost almost every single one. I was ecstatic when we beat St. Joes in 2008 since I viewed that as a toss-up game. OU was over-seeded (proved that against Louisville) and only a 4-point favorite to beat St. Joes. Other than 1987, we lost every other 1st round game when the opponent was seeded within 5 of OU.

All those negative facts aside, none of that will matter one bit this March...it will just make many of us more "cautiously optimistic" than over-confident.

Honestly, I'm always happy just to be playing in March when I have that feeling we at least have a chance. At least it's fun to follow the tourney and predict it when I have some skin in the game. I do get disappointed when we lose early but at least we made it there.

However, I'm not some multi-millionaire OU football fan who looks at the final score and thinks "well, basketball program does it again". That's the point of this thread is LNC or basketball facilities upgrades. If we win it all then big donations will start to appear even in these economic times of uncertainty in Oklahoma. Any less and it will be status quo, IMO.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I own no panties and my boxers are not in a wad. I get now where you're coming from, but you've been acting as though we're misconstruing your words.

We're not; we're taking them at face value.

I wear boxers too and they were in a wad when I typed that reply because I was having to work instead of going to bed.

 

[sperry]

This state and university have some hard times head. We aren't even truly feeling the worst effects of the oil crash yet, that will be in the coming months/years.

The university cut the planned football renovations by over 50%. Basketball renovations aren't coming unless a donor is willing to put a huge chunk of it. And given our major donor's ties to O&G, I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. We can revisit this in 5 years and see how the local economy is doing, but everyone within the university is goign to have to tighten their belts quite a bit for the next couple years.

 

[WTSooner]

This state and university have some hard times head. We aren't even truly feeling the worst effects of the oil crash yet, that will be in the coming months/years.

The university cut the planned football renovations by over 50%. Basketball renovations aren't coming unless a donor is willing to put a huge chunk of it. And given our major donor's ties to O&G, I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. We can revisit this in 5 years and see how the local economy is doing, but everyone within the university is goign to have to tighten their belts quite a bit for the next couple years.

This isn't going to be a 5 year problem. Probably won't even be a 3-4 year problem. I'm guessing the oil prices head back up by the end of the calendar year, if not before.

 

[sperry]

This isn't going to be a 5 year problem. Probably won't even be a 3-4 year problem. I'm guessing the oil prices head back up by the end of the calendar year, if not before.

Head back to where? Yeah, if they rise some then the companies can keep the lights on but they are a long way from doing great. Big stadium renovations come at 100 oil, not at levels that are just high enough to keep domestic producers in business.

 

[DenverSooner]

The notion that OU is in the ten worst, probably top five is pure speculation. Actually prove it. Go through all 300 plus schools and prove what you are saying. Because I do not remotely buy it.

I pay particular attention to Big 8/Big 12 sports. I am positive Missouri, ISU and KU have all suffered major upsets in the NCAA Tournament. Roy Williams was called the weeper because of his crying after early NCAA losses at KU. Have some of you forgotten the tear filled press conferences. He wasn't crying because KU upset someone.

I am also positive OU has gone further in the NCAA Tournament than every team in the current or former Big XII/Big 8 except KU (since 1985). Only KU (which has more than two) OU and OSU have two final four appearances from 85 to the present. OU has been to more Elite Eights than any school (other than Kansas) in the Big XII/Big 8 (including the schools that have left so that is 14 schools).

 

[coolm]

I chose to enjoy the program rather than berate it. I can enjoy it on levels where the NCAA tournament doesnt matter. If you can't then I am sorry.

 

[WaymanFan]

Let me clarify my previous post since it wasn't my intention to speculate, but to list facts. By seed (since '85), Billy is a -7, Kelvin is at -5 and Lon is -1. A "-13" is going to put us in the bottom 10...and there will be plenty of these stats popping up come March.

Regardless, I believe the main reason we tend to under-perform our seed in most years is due to the coaches who get all they can out of the players during the regular season. For example, let's look at some of the best OU coaching performances since the start of the Billy Tubbs era. Would I be exaggerating if I said Billy's 1984 and 1990 teams, Kelvin's 1995 and 2000 teams, and Lon's 2014 team were all GREAT coaching jobs? Those teams played far better than any reasonable expectations. It's not a coincidence that all of those teams wound up with early exits in the Dance.

So, while we are in the bottom 10 in the "+ -" category, I would bet we are in the top 10 (maybe top 5) of preseason rank vs. NCAA Tournament seed.

Hopefully, this post was a little less negative

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Head back to where? Yeah, if they rise some then the companies can keep the lights on but they are a long way from doing great. Big stadium renovations come at 100 oil, not at levels that are just high enough to keep domestic producers in business.

MOST domestic producers can handle $40 oil. Yeah it isn't where they want to be but it can still be economic at that point. just need to trim the fat. $100 may not every happen again. the sweet spot will be $80 going forward

 

[DenverSooner]

Let me clarify my previous post since it wasn't my intention to speculate, but to list facts. By seed (since '85), Billy is a -7, Kelvin is at -5 and Lon is -1. A "-13" is going to put us in the bottom 10...and there will be plenty of these stats popping up come March.

Do you notice anything wrong with your stat? It suggests to me the more successful you are the worse you do in this statistic. You can only be upset by doing well.