March Madness and Covid-19

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dksooner said:
It should be a choice and that death figure is not a true death by covid number. There's still not a vaccine for HIV and there doesn't have to be a vaccine for covid for life to go on.
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HIV and COVID are entirely different, unless perhaps you have anal sex with everybody you come in contact with. Also, an HIV vaccine would be an absolute gift to the world.
 
obligatory
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Soonerinkc said:
not sure if I put this on here....my wife and brother both know someone who's elderly parent died of a heart attack. NEITHER had covid.

Both had covid on their death certificate.

The families talked to the hospitals and were told there would be no change.

Medicare is paying hospitals 13K for covid patients and 39K if they go on a ventilator...that is a fact.
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Thank you! My point exactly. No one will convince me that hospitals are not taking full advantage of the opportunity to add 13K or 39K to their bank account. If doctors show a patient died of Covid, no one is going to challenge the diagnosis. It’s not like a a Medicare/Insurance company watchdog is looking over their shoulder.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
Thanks. And I'm totally on board with this for most vaccines.
Where I'm not is when it is for something like the flu
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The flu vaccine isn't incredibly effective compared to some of our better vaccines, but its benefits certainly outweigh the risks, even in the worst years.

One of the arguments I saw in this thread was that many have already been exposed to COVID and thus the second wave after reopening wouldn't be nearly as bad. The worst hit place in the US is NYC (by a large margin), and random sampling suggests that 20% of NYC residents have antibodies. If I'm not mistaken, 15-20% effectiveness of the flu vaccine is considered an exceptionally bad year. Think about that for a second. Imagine if we got to this level of immunity from one lousy vaccine given to the whole country without having to shut down economies and overwhelm hospitals.

That's why I'm for flu vaccines even in the worst years. Also, we don't know it's a bad year for the vaccine until after the fact anyway.
 
Stikboy said:
Hold on a second. Are you peabrains actually talking about mandating a vaccine to control this deadly deadly deadly deadly PANDEMIC that kills approximately .08% of the population? HAHAHHAHAHA
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I'm not suggesting mandation of a vaccine before reopening the economy, and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, but 0.08% of the world's population still amounts to millions of deaths. It's highly disrespectful to laugh at a tragedy of that nature.
 
steverocks35 said:
You're nuts if you don't get a flu shot and you will be INSANE/STUPID if you don't get a SARS-Cov-2 vaccine when/if it is available.
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If we had a vaccine today that was even slightly effective against COVID, I would highly encourage everybody to get it. These types of posts don't accomplish that goal, though. Educate them rather than calling them INSANE/STUPID idiots. At best, you've reached fewer people than you could have otherwise. In reality, these comments often push people the other direction.
 
AdaSooner said:
When a patient dies and the standard admission DRG is changed to Covid to collect $13,000 (more if they were on a ventilator), I don’t know how anyone can be certain of the data. You know as well as I do that some (not all) hospitals will take full advantage of the best reimbursement they can get. And, with their usual sources of revenue not available now, many of them are in a survival mode.
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True, but that's honestly a year-round thing. There is a way of coding for COVID that is something along the lines of "COVID ruled in based on clinical suspicion despite negative test." It's a real thing, as this test I believe has an estimated sensitivity in the 70s. It's usually applied accurately in my experience, as COVID's effect on imaging and labs is pretty unmistakable. I'd be lying if I said that I never felt it was misused, though. I would guess overcoding probably leads to a 5-10% increase in diagnosis (keyword: guess. I can't support these numbers), but there's probably a higher number of patients that were negative based on less than 100% sensitivity testing or simply not enough tests, though.
 
AdaSooner said:
I saw one of many stories on TV last night about the high rate of infections in NY nursing homes attributed to hospitals releasing Covid patients back into the nursing home population. The excuse given to was to prevent “overloading the healthcare system.” We both know the real reason was their DRG had run out and those patients would be a financial liability from that time forward.
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If true, that's more of a condemnation of the nursing home than the hospital. When we send patients back to nursing homes with COVID, we leave explicit instructions to quarantine them. If they're not capable of that, they shouldn't be accepting the patient back.

And the NY healthcare system absolutely was overwhelmed. Every hospital I know of was at beyond 100% of their previously approved capacity -- most well beyond that. I know of one hospital that turned a teaching auditorium into a room for about 30 patients. This was some stuff straight out of the movies.
 
Eielson said:
I'm not suggesting mandation of a vaccine before reopening the economy, and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, but 0.08% of the world's population still amounts to millions of deaths. It's highly disrespectful to laugh at a tragedy of that nature.
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Why are you suggesting that i'm actually laughing at people dying? Please try to exercise at least an ounce of common sense.
 
Eielson said:
The flu vaccine isn't incredibly effective compared to some of our better vaccines, but its benefits certainly outweigh the risks, even in the worst years.

One of the arguments I saw in this thread was that many have already been exposed to COVID and thus the second wave after reopening wouldn't be nearly as bad. The worst hit place in the US is NYC (by a large margin), and random sampling suggests that 20% of NYC residents have antibodies. If I'm not mistaken, 15-20% effectiveness of the flu vaccine is considered an exceptionally bad year. Think about that for a second. Imagine if we got to this level of immunity from one lousy vaccine given to the whole country without having to shut down economies and overwhelm hospitals.

That's why I'm for flu vaccines even in the worst years. Also, we don't know it's a bad year for the vaccine until after the fact anyway.
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Good points
 
Anyone want to take a stab at why we just shoes one flu vaccine a year instead of multiple?
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
Anyone want to take a stab at why we just shoes one flu vaccine a year instead of multiple?
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They use more than one strain in the vaccine - usually 3-4 I believe. I'm going off the top of my head, but I believe it's based on what has hit the southern hemisphere earlier in the year.
 
Eielson said:
If we had a vaccine today that was even slightly effective against COVID, I would highly encourage everybody to get it. These types of posts don't accomplish that goal, though. Educate them rather than calling them INSANE/STUPID idiots. At best, you've reached fewer people than you could have otherwise. In reality, these comments often push people the other direction.
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Yeah I could have been more diplomatic, I’m just flabbergasted by someone who says they won’t take a SARS-Cov-2 vaccine.
 
steverocks35 said:
Yeah I could have been more diplomatic, I’m just flabbergasted by someone who says they won’t take a SARS-Cov-2 vaccine.
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It’s obvious diplomacy is not your strong suit. You’re accustomed to being in charge. Nothing wrong with that, except posters on this board are not obligated to agree with you, or to bend over for a vaccine even if it’s in their best interest.

Eielson gave you some good advice. I hope you’ll take it.
 
Eielson said:
If true, that's more of a condemnation of the nursing home than the hospital. When we send patients back to nursing homes with COVID, we leave explicit instructions to quarantine them. If they're not capable of that, they shouldn't be accepting the patient back.

And the NY healthcare system absolutely was overwhelmed. Every hospital I know of was at beyond 100% of their previously approved capacity -- most well beyond that. I know of one hospital that turned a teaching auditorium into a room for about 30 patients. This was some stuff straight out of the movies.
Click to expand...

You’re right, if there was a healthcare system beyond capacity anywhere in this country, it was in New York. That was unfair of me to think they did it for the money.
 
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