March Madness and Covid-19

[hoopsaustin]

I don't think this is up for debate. The stuff in this post happens and happens frequently. Blacks are targeted more than whites. They have more to overcome and they are treated unfairly in the courts.

But I don't think the killing of blacks by cops is the issue here. I just don't see it in the numbers and facts. And this is the main reason people are giving for the protests and riots is innocent black people being killed by police. From what I can find 235 black people were killed by police last year. and all by 9 had a weapon on them when killed. I will concede that having a weapon is not reason to kill someone. But it is an escalation and changes the dynamic of the interaction immensley.

Poor is the greatest driver of criminal behavior.

blacks disproportionately commit crimes bc they are disproportionately poor.

Exacerbating the matter more:
the majority of of rap music embraces drug, gun, gang, misogynistic behavior, gold teeth, saggy pants, overall illegality culture.

Country music largely embraces, getting the girl, love, drinking, dancing, trucks, cowboy hats, blah blah blah.

Due to this, which would most find more likely to be a threat? The cowboy hat guy? Or a saggy pants gold teeth wearing, F the police shirt wearing guy?

The majority of crime (i.e. violent crime) is committed by blacks or perhaps more accurately, a vastly disproportionate amount of crime (again violent) is committed by blacks.. this is not a controversial statement. It is fact.

Yet, half of the country wants the police to not pay attention to common sense and statistics and gamble with their own lives?? I dont get it..

 

[hoopsaustin]

What determines if a jury can find them guilty of a lesser charge? I know sometimes they are given the right/ability to do that, and sometimes they aren't. Second degree murder seems pretty aggressive, so I wonder if they are doing that because they know the jury will have the ability to convict of something lesser if needed?

Edit: coolm, you aren't good for much (kidding, kidding), but this question should be right up your alley.

i very rarely do criminal law, and def none in Minnesota. Idk. Ive just looked at the statutes for the elements needed to prove the charges and guessed based off of that

 

[BCSooners]

Gracious great balls of fire.


I asked early on if all hate crime was wrong or only some of it and was assured that all hate crime was wrong. Well I got news for you and your kind. Morality is not a function of convenience, but being a fraud is. Morality is not a pick and choose affair. It is shameless to not have shame.

Hate crime isn’t the issue we are talking about. Cops are killing black men who are complying, false police reports are submitted, cops walk. If a hate crime is committed someone gets arrested & goes to jail. Cops haven’t been treated the same way.

 

[BCSooners]

Poor is the greatest driver of criminal behavior.

blacks disproportionately commit crimes bc they are disproportionately poor.

Exacerbating the matter more:
the majority of of rap music embraces drug, gun, gang, misogynistic behavior, gold teeth, saggy pants, overall illegality culture.

Country music largely embraces, getting the girl, love, drinking, dancing, trucks, cowboy hats, blah blah blah.

Due to this, which would most find more likely to be a threat? The cowboy hat guy? Or a saggy pants gold teeth wearing, F the police shirt wearing guy?

The majority of crime (i.e. violent crime) is committed by blacks or perhaps more accurately, a vastly disproportionate amount of crime (again violent) is committed by blacks.. this is not a controversial statement. It is fact.

Yet, half of the country wants the police to not pay attention to common sense and statistics and gamble with their own lives?? I dont get it..

We’re comparing music now? I like rap & hate country, never been harassed by the police or strangers for doing so.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I want to make sure I am clear in the point I am trying to make, but I respect your response to my post....

You mention you don't think the killing of blacks by cops is an issue, because statistically it isn't revealed in the numbers...

The point I am trying to make is that black people are constantly profiled, treated unfairly in the courts, treated unfairly in the labor market, etc so and and so forth (information from my previous post) ... That when something like this does happen, I think the outrage of their overall oppression boils over and leads to so much unrest and outrage.

The murder itself was bad, but its a culmination of all the other things facing that black community that it blows up when something like this happens.

The other part that I didn't address is the connection between race and the killing.... When a cop shoots a white guy (which does happen obviously), nobody questions that it was about the skin color. But when someone is killed BECAUSE of their skin color, it becomes a whole different issue. The context is important. It's a hate crime. So while the numbers may not be huge, any killing that is done because of racial profiling or for racial reasons is going to be a much bigger issue than a killing that was done for other reasons.

I read a horrible story a few years ago about a 20 year old couple walking around Riverside, and an armed robbery occurred... The criminal guy literally forced them on their knees at gun point, took like $7 from them, and executed them.... They were ORU students. But unfortunately, that kind of thing happens all too frequently. He killed them because he was desperate for money, starving, insane, or whatever... He didn't kill them because of WHO or WHAT they were.

Ahmaud Arbery, for example, wasn't killed for $7.. As bad as it sounds to kill someone for $7... killing someone because their black is even worse.... He wasn't killed because of what he had. He was basically lynched because he was black.

So, take that to George Floyd... You have to remember the black experience, and black history in this country... I think you are looking at it like the story I just told about the ORU students... It was 4 guys, who happened to be cops, that murdered George Floyd.... But because of history, and everything else that goes along with the black experience.... he was killed for no other reason than being black. That very concept conjures about powerful, horrifying, and awful memories and emotions within the black community.

You can read minds now? How do you know that the killer didnt wait for WHITE oru students to rob/execute? How do you know that he didnt choose oru instead of tulsa, bc its likely more white?

Answer is you dont. Youre making up stuff per usual.

Arbery sprinted from a house, that he had previously cased on mutliple occasions, after being called in to 911... its pretty safe to assume that he had a criminal basis for sprinting away (besides the obvious mundane criminality related to trespass)

I expect the george father/son duo to walk on all charges.

What will decide it imo is if there is a subjective component to the person trying to effect a citizens arrest or not as to whether the arrestee had committed a felony or not? Or if the jury decides that it's perfectly plausible that the arrestee likely could have had a weapon or a small item on his person that was stolen, constituting a felony?

Or perhaps regardless, it might be a plain self defense case, in which case arbery charged the son holding the shotgun... which i believe likely sways it to self defense, unless it were ruled to be completely unlawful for son/father to command the arrestee to stop and there was no duty on the arrestee to retreat, instead of engaging with the son

 

[hoopsaustin]

We’re comparing music now? I like rap & hate country, never been harassed by the police or strangers for doing so.

Viewing it through a sociological/political science lense tho here.

I like rap and country.

You can take my comment out of context, in bad faith, if you want... i dont think this is an advanced concept.

 

[thebigabd]

I expect the george father/son duo to walk on all charges.

I have a feeling that statement isn't going to age well. In fact, I know it won't. Sorry to disappoint you on that.

News reports coming out now that they hit him with their truck, called him the N word, and had confederate flags on their stuff in the truck. Can you please just drop this total non-sense? Its embarrassing man.

William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood in February, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html

Arbery sprinted from a house, that he had previously cased on mutliple occasions

A house that those two racist rednecks didn't own.... and video footage showed lots of other people, including kids and other families, go into that house while it was under construction. I guess they were casing it too. In one of the videos Arbery literally got a drink of water.

Good lord man, can you not understand how you sound here?

 

[WTSooner]

Poor is the greatest driver of criminal behavior.

blacks disproportionately commit crimes bc they are disproportionately poor.

Exacerbating the matter more:
the majority of of rap music embraces drug, gun, gang, misogynistic behavior, gold teeth, saggy pants, overall illegality culture.

Country music largely embraces, getting the girl, love, drinking, dancing, trucks, cowboy hats, blah blah blah.

Due to this, which would most find more likely to be a threat? The cowboy hat guy? Or a saggy pants gold teeth wearing, F the police shirt wearing guy?

The majority of crime (i.e. violent crime) is committed by blacks or perhaps more accurately, a vastly disproportionate amount of crime (again violent) is committed by blacks.. this is not a controversial statement. It is fact.

Yet, half of the country wants the police to not pay attention to common sense and statistics and gamble with their own lives?? I dont get it..

VERY well put. This falls in line with how I feel.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Hate crime isn’t the issue we are talking about. Cops are killing black men who are complying, false police reports are submitted, cops walk. If a hate crime is committed someone gets arrested & goes to jail. Cops haven’t been treated the same way.

But hate crime is a result of racism.

 

[stormspencer]

Hate crime isn’t the issue we are talking about. Cops are killing black men who are complying, false police reports are submitted, cops walk. If a hate crime is committed someone gets arrested & goes to jail. Cops haven’t been treated the same way.

I recently read an article that addresses this....specifically concerning the implementation of officer body cams. I thought it was LAPD, but I'm not certain....I will have to find it for you. The overarching theme was that complaints filed against officers decreased significantly once the the officer body cams were instituted. These devices led to accountability not only for the officer, but also for the accusers. It created documented transparency and frivolous complaints (with little or no merit) against officers were then dismissed. But it also uncovered some bad practices by certain officers that could be addressed as well. In summary, it wasn't a perfect solution by any means, but it was a step in the right direction.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I have a feeling that statement isn't going to age well. In fact, I know it won't. Sorry to disappoint you on that.

News reports coming out now that they hit him with their truck, called him the N word, and had confederate flags on their stuff in the truck. Can you please just drop this total non-sense? Its embarrassing man.

William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood in February, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html



A house that those two racist rednecks didn't own.... and video footage showed lots of other people, including kids and other families, go into that house while it was under construction. I guess they were casing it too. In one of the videos Arbery literally got a drink of water.

Good lord man, can you not understand how you sound here?

I hadnt seen that. You're right. Still tho, whether he or father are racist wouldnt change the legal analysis

 

[thebigabd]

I hadnt seen that. You're right. Still tho, whether he or father are racist wouldnt change the legal analysis

So two guys chase down and lynch a guy for "casing" a property they don't own, hit him with their truck, shoot him, call him a ****ing ni%%er, etc and we aren't gonna call that a hate crime? Hell, you are saying it's not even gonna be called murder. You are calling it a citizens arrest gone bad, and expect them to walk away as free men. You've made Ahmaud the villain, and the two guys flying confederate flags and running someone over in the street the heroes who were trying to protect their community.

Wowzers..... Now would be the appropriate time to ask yourself, "am I on the right side of this story? Am I on the right side of history?"...

 

[BCSooners]

But hate crime is a result of racism.

Who said it wasn’t? Cops are getting away with murdering black men, that’s the issue. If cops were going to jail for what they’ve been doing these uproars wouldn’t be happening.

 

[BCSooners]

You can read minds now? How do you know that the killer didnt wait for WHITE oru students to rob/execute? How do you know that he didnt choose oru instead of tulsa, bc its likely more white?

Answer is you dont. Youre making up stuff per usual.

Arbery sprinted from a house, that he had previously cased on mutliple occasions, after being called in to 911... its pretty safe to assume that he had a criminal basis for sprinting away (besides the obvious mundane criminality related to trespass)

I expect the george father/son duo to walk on all charges.

What will decide it imo is if there is a subjective component to the person trying to effect a citizens arrest or not as to whether the arrestee had committed a felony or not? Or if the jury decides that it's perfectly plausible that the arrestee likely could have had a weapon or a small item on his person that was stolen, constituting a felony?

Or perhaps regardless, it might be a plain self defense case, in which case arbery charged the son holding the shotgun... which i believe likely sways it to self defense, unless it were ruled to be completely unlawful for son/father to command the arrestee to stop and there was no duty on the arrestee to retreat, instead of engaging with the son

This is pretty disgusting.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Who said it wasn’t? Cops are getting away with murdering black men, that’s the issue. If cops were going to jail for what they’ve been doing these uproars wouldn’t be happening.

Are they going to jail for white men or other ethnicities wronged.

The cops in Minnesota are not going to jail? And what are the ethnical make up of these 4 cops.

Can you explain how the black professor from Harvard is wrong in his analysis. You are suggesting that it is all one sided or this is a poor analysis on my part.

 

[BCSooners]

Are they going to jail for white men or other ethnicities wronged.

The cops in Minnesota are not going to jail? And what are the ethnical make up of these 4 cops.

Can you explain how the black professor from Harvard is wrong in his analysis. You are suggesting that it is all one sided or this is a poor analysis on my part.

I haven’t said white cops, I’ve said cops. I haven’t seen videos of white men getting killed by cops while complying & not posing a threat whatsoever. If that does happen then those cops should be held accountable too.

 

[OU84]

I have a feeling that statement isn't going to age well. In fact, I know it won't. Sorry to disappoint you on that.

News reports coming out now that they hit him with their truck, called him the N word, and had confederate flags on their stuff in the truck. Can you please just drop this total non-sense? Its embarrassing man.

William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood in February, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html



A house that those two racist rednecks didn't own.... and video footage showed lots of other people, including kids and other families, go into that house while it was under construction. I guess they were casing it too. In one of the videos Arbery literally got a drink of water.

Good lord man, can you not understand how you sound here?

I can no longer keep quiet. This is a big DITTO for me. Thank you Big for your well-thought out and articulate stand on these threads.

 

[BCSooners]

I have a feeling that statement isn't going to age well. In fact, I know it won't. Sorry to disappoint you on that.

News reports coming out now that they hit him with their truck, called him the N word, and had confederate flags on their stuff in the truck. Can you please just drop this total non-sense? Its embarrassing man.

William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood in February, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html



A house that those two racist rednecks didn't own.... and video footage showed lots of other people, including kids and other families, go into that house while it was under construction. I guess they were casing it too. In one of the videos Arbery literally got a drink of water.

Good lord man, can you not understand how you sound here?

Great response.

 

[sheepdogs1]

I haven’t said white cops, I’ve said cops. I haven’t seen videos of white men getting killed by cops while complying & not posing a threat whatsoever. If that does happen then those cops should be held accountable too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

 

[BCSooners]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

You’re not getting it. If someone pulls a weapon on a cop, shooting up a place, etc. then I have no issue with cops or someone killing them. MY ISSUE is when the person being arrested has committed a very low crime (or none at all), is complying with the officer and still gets killed.

Also your stats make my point. Black people make up 13% of the population & 28% of deaths by police.