>>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

[coolm]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

It was a good win.....one we really needed. But I don't think our problems have been solved.

We were very fortunate to win against Kansas. With four minutes left, KU had a 78-74 lead. I looked back at the game and realized that KU scored exactly 2 points in the last 4 minutes......
Azubuike left a possible 8 points at the free throw line (with an assist from Self) and Mykhaluk missed a wide open 3 (He was 6-13 last night). Graham had a bad shooting night (4-19).
OU scored 11 points in the last four minutes. Odomes was 3-4 from the free throw line and Trae was 2-2. And was still behind until James hit his three and then Brady hit his.
Brady and Trae had very good games. And their percentages show it....


http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?DB_OEM_ID=31000&id=197966

I guess what I'm saying is Kansas didn't play near their best game and they almost beat us anyway.

For the most part, we played fair defense. Every so often, we would lose one of their shooters and they would make a 3 from the corner. But what hurt us most was their centers on those pick and rolls at the free throw line extended. Both of our bigs have trouble with that play....and don't seem to get any better.

jmo

I remember this one time Jessica Alba wanted to have sex with me. But I noticed she had a mole on her elbow. yuck! I turned her down.

 

[TINY]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

It was a good win.....one we really needed. But I don't think our problems have been solved.

We were very fortunate to win against Kansas. With four minutes left, KU had a 78-74 lead. I looked back at the game and realized that KU scored exactly 2 points in the last 4 minutes......
Azubuike left a possible 8 points at the free throw line (with an assist from Self) and Mykhaluk missed a wide open 3 (He was 6-13 last night). Graham had a bad shooting night (4-19).
OU scored 11 points in the last four minutes. Odomes was 3-4 from the free throw line and Trae was 2-2. And was still behind until James hit his three and then Brady hit his.
Brady and Trae had very good games. And their percentages show it....


http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?DB_OEM_ID=31000&id=197966

I guess what I'm saying is Kansas didn't play near their best game and they almost beat us anyway.

For the most part, we played fair defense. Every so often, we would lose one of their shooters and they would make a 3 from the corner. But what hurt us most was their centers on those pick and rolls at the free throw line extended. Both of our bigs have trouble with that play....and don't seem to get any better.

jmo

Actually by almost all accounts on the phog it was KU’s best performance of the year until the last 4 minutes or so. Graham had a bad shooting night but svi and Newman played their best games of the year. Graham also did everything else at a very high level and their bigs played very well besides the FTs down the stretch

 

[WaymanFan]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

I guess what I'm saying is Kansas didn't play near their best game and they almost beat us anyway.

Actually, they played an amazing game until they tired out at the end due to a lack of depth. Give OU some credit for wearing them down - and obviously outcoaching them with the "wink-wink" accidental fouls by Freeman. In fairness, you did raise some good points as well.

 

[chuckb]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

Actually by almost all accounts on the phog it was KU’s best performance of the year until the last 4 minutes or so. Graham had a bad shooting night but svi and Newman played their best games of the year. Graham also did everything else at a very high level and their bigs played very well besides the FTs down the stretch

I don't know what they're saying on the Phog -- and I couldn't care less -- but they missed a lot of open shots. Graham and Vick couldn't hit anything. We were very fortunate that they shot 10-32 from behind the arc and not 14 or 15-32.

 

[skyvue]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

It's a weird phenomenon to see our fans saying we were lucky to win. In virtually any game, one can find things the losing team did wrong, things that, if they'd done them better, might have allowed them to win. It's one thing for the losing team's fans to take solace from such explanations but for our own fans to be so quick to make excuses for the opposing team (especially when it's KU) and to take credit away from our guys, well, it's just weird. It's almost like we've come to identify with our abusers, as if some of us just can't quite accept (or worse, can't quite enjoy) the fact that we won.

It's been widely noted how well Trae played, but how about our big men? They combined for 16 points and 16 rebounds (and limited Azubuike to 9/6). James had 15 points, Manek had 14/7, Odomes has 9 points and hit his free throws. And even in pointing out KU's failings, one must surely give OU some credit for them. KU wasn't playing in a vacuum, after all.

 

[Chaser728]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

Sky I’d agree with you on all that, OU does deserve credit. And even KU’s failings have to do with what we were doing. The obvious example would be putting Dok at the line 4 times... but another overlooked element was Graham’s poor shooting night. Covering Trae as they had him do is exhausting; perhaps this is why he wasn’t his normal self on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[scrybe]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

OU scored 11 points in the last four minutes. Odomes was 3-4 from the free throw line and Trae was 2-2.

Not that it really matters – we won – but Trae was not 2-2 from the free throw line in the final four minutes. He actually missed his last two free throws.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

I don't know what they're saying on the Phog -- and I couldn't care less -- but they missed a lot of open shots. Graham and Vick couldn't hit anything. We were very fortunate that they shot 10-32 from behind the arc and not 14 or 15-32.

granted, but how many 2 fters did OU miss? We left at least 12 points on EASY 2 ft shots.

 

[Chaser728]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

granted, but how many 2 fters did OU miss? We left at least 12 points on EASY 2 ft shots.

And we missed a few open three's as well.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

And Odomes missed his last free shot and Trae missed his las two. How bad a team we must be.:eddie187_jpg_xs::chestram2: The assistant for free shots must not be doing his job and do those guys ever practice free shots.

 

[chuckb]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

granted, but how many 2 fters did OU miss? We left at least 12 points on EASY 2 ft shots.

Many. Too many. It was somewhat frustrating to see that we could've opened up a pretty good 1st half lead and some of Those balls just didnt fall. As i said in another thread, OU was a little unlucky when Freeman's 3 pointer bounced around and out when it could've been the game winner before James's.

 

[chuckb]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

It's a weird phenomenon to see our fans saying we were lucky to win.

I didn't say that.

It's one thing for the losing team's fans to take solace from such explanations but for our own fans to be so quick to make excuses for the opposing team (especially when it's KU) and to take credit away from our guys, well, it's just weird. It's almost like we've come to identify with our abusers, as if some of us just can't quite accept (or worse, can't quite enjoy) the fact that we won

I didn't do that. You're a smart guy. You know that. It's just patently dishonest to state it.

It's not "taking credit away from our guys" to admit that there were several times during the game where I went "whew! I'm glad that shot didn't fall." If you're so lacking in objectivity that you purposefully try to throw posters who make objective comments into the enemy, essentially sewing an us vs. them mentality among Sooner fans, then the problem is you, not those of us making objective comments.

You used to be such a good poster, one whose comments I really enjoyed reading. I just can't abide comments from people who deliberately try to McCarthy-ize a pro-Sooner forum.

 

[skyvue]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

First off, your posts weren't what inspired mine.

But I stand by my point. As I shared today in another thread, we've won more games against ranked opponents -- both Top 10 and Top 25 -- than any other team in the country, but a (thankfully small) faction of our fans continues to doubt the team. We weren't fortunate to win that game on Tuesday, any more than any team is to win any close game. Luck's always involved, in both victories and losses, but we darned well earned that win.

 

[tooney]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

First off, your posts weren't what inspired mine.

But I stand by my point. As I shared today in another thread, we've won more games against ranked opponents -- both Top 10 and Top 25 -- than any other team in the country, but a (thankfully small) faction of our fans continues to doubt the team. We weren't fortunate to win that game on Tuesday, any more than any team is to win any close game. Luck's always involved, in both victories and losses, but we darned well earned that win.

I didn't say we were lucky to win either......if that's what you read in my post, I guess I should have been more clear. And it has nothing to do with any other games against top competition.

What I did mean to say was....if your team is down four with four minutes left and you foul hoping that they miss, you are fortunate if their player misses every free throw.

I didn't say we didn't deserve to win.....that would be foolish. But when you play the fifth best team in the nation and they only manage to score 2 points in the last four minutes......and the defense deserves some credit but there were other factors at work too.

Here's a column that contains a little of what I was trying to say.....he probably says it better.

http://newsok.com/james-gets-aggression-back-in-sooners-win-over-kansas/article/5580798

 

[skyvue]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

I didn't say we were lucky to win either.

It's true. You said we were "very fortunate to win against Kansas," though I'm not sure I see the distinction.

Again, I'm not sure there's ever been a tight game played in the history of D1 basketball where you couldn't point out a dozen ways the losing team might have won. Heck, you could do the same in many games with a final margin of 10 or 12 points.

But as long as we're going for what-ifs and if we're going to focus on Azubuike, let's play it all the way out.

He went 1-for-7 from the line on Tuesday. If he hits his standard percentage (41%), he'd have hit 2.87 of those shots (we'll call it 3), and OU still wins.

Even if he'd hit the first of his two one-and-ones late in the game, that would have given him nine free throws. If he still hits his season percentage, that's 3.69 made free throws-- we'll call it 4, and OU still wins.

And, what the heck, if we're going to throw out what-ifs -- if Trae hits his two late free throws, we win by three, even with Azubuike making those front-ends and hitting his season percentage.

But before we hang the loss on Azubuike, it's worth remembering that KU went 1-6 from the field in the final four minutes. OU hit their shots in crunch time; KU didn't. That's how tight games are won and lost.

If the game had been an exact mirror image of Tuesday's matchup and OU had lost by five in the precise manner that KU did, claims on this board that KU was "very fortunate" to win would have been roundly mocked, in some corners at least. "No excuses! We didn't play good defense! We didn't rebound! We're a one-man team! Our players suck! Take off your crimson glasses!" The in-game threads on this board, if we're not winning by double-digits, are a steady stream of relentless negativity, trashing our players, our coaches, all the way down to the kids who wipe the sweat off the floor. So yeah, when we notch a huge win like Tuesday's and some posters downplay the win by pointing out how "very fortunate" we were, I'm going to speak up. Had we won on a half-court shot at the buzzer, I'd be down with the "very fortunate" tag, but not when we win by outplaying the other team over the last four minutes of a dogfight. That's not luck (or fortune), that's grit and determination and talent.

 

[tooney]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

It's true. You said we were "very fortunate to win against Kansas," though I'm not sure I see the distinction.

I really didn't expect you to.......

You don't think we were fortunate to win...... given the circumstances late in the game, I do.

We just disagree...nothing wrong with that. That's one of the reasons message boards are popular.

 

[Northbase]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

Had we won on a half-court shot at the buzzer, I'd be down with the "very fortunate" tag, but not when we win by outplaying the other team over the last four minutes of a dogfight. That's not luck (or fortune), that's grit and determination and talent.

Bravo, very well stated!

 

[skyvue]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

I really didn't expect you to.......

By all means, enlighten me. I pride myself on having a reasonably good grasp of words, but I'm always up for more knowledge.

For what it's worth, Merriam-Webster lists "lucky" and "fortunate" as mutual synonyms, which is not to suggest there might not be a subtle distinction between them. What did you mean by "very fortunate" that "lucky" doesn't cover?

I already stated that a little luck goes into every tough win. But making plays and shots when the other team doesn't (and that's exactly what we did) isn't what I call luck (or good fortune).

You don't think we were fortunate to win...... given the circumstances late in the game, I do.

Which circumstances are those? We were down 4 with four minutes to go, by 1 with three minutes to go, by 1 with two minutes to go, and we led by 2 with one minute left. And thanks to a great move by our head coach, we sent a terrible free throw shooter to the line four times (should have been five) over that span. But I'm not sure it would have mattered if we hadn't; as has been pointed out, KU went 1-for-6 from the field over those four minutes.

At what point did you think the circumstances were such that a win was unattainable or even unlikely? I'll admit I was a nervous wreck those final four minutes; I always am in a tight game like that. But with this team I never think we can't or are even unlikely to pull out a tight win. We've done it too often this season, especially at home. A blindly optimistic fan, I'm not, but I think this team has earned our faith and confidence (which is not to say I won't have a knot in my stomach on many more occasions as the season progresses).

 

[SoonerSpock]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

granted, but how many 2 fters did OU miss? We left at least 12 points on EASY 2 ft shots.

In the course of a game you will always find multiple opportunities when we failed to make the shot but for the game. It is called basketball and there are quality players on the Kansas team.

But we shot 49% (48% season) from the field, 39% (40% season) BTA and 80% (74% season) from the line. I'll take that every night and get a bunch of W's. Also we shot 56% (46% season) from the 2 for the game that too is very good. Relish the win don't lament our failure to be perfect.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Re: >>>>>Oklahoma [14-4, 4-3] vs. Kansas [16-3, 6-1] Thread<<<<<

In the course of a game you will always find multiple opportunities when we failed to make the shot but for the game. It is called basketball and there are quality players on the Kansas team.

But we shot 49% (48% season) from the field, 39% (40% season) BTA and 80% (74% season) from the line. I'll take that every night and get a bunch of W's. Also we shot 56% (46% season) from the 2 for the game that too is very good. Relish the win don't lament our failure to be perfect.

Amen!