OU vs KU 8pm CST ESPN2

[WTSooner]

We shouldn’t be punished for being in a great league. You should get rewarded. Just like this year.

This is not a great league. The Dance will show that, I believe. Like it did last year to some extent.

 

[Hollisp]

This is not a great league. The Dance will show that, I believe. Like it did last year to some extent.

Compared to the entirety of conferences in college basketball it 100% is one of the superior conferences. Which is exactly what entry into the tournament rewards.

 

[WTSooner]

Compared to the entirety of conferences in college basketball it 100% is one of the superior conferences. Which is exactly what entry into the tournament rewards.

Compared to other non-P5 conferences? Of course.

 

[Hollisp]

Compared to other non-P5 conferences? Of course.

This is the entirety of my point. That’s why a 7-11 record gets u in.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I too think conference games should matter more. Those are your peers, so to speak. You should be able to compete against your conference foes.

Doesn't matter this year, OU is in, I get that. But I think conference games are a much better measurement of a team than OOC games. Even good OOC games.

Nah... the ncaa tournament is a collection of the best teams in the country... id be more of a buyer of the college opposite extreme of ending all conferences in all sports than getting ultra hung up on conferences (im not saying we should)

I think the only thing conference wins should matter more in is in the... conference tournament.... as that is literally designed to be a tournament against your conference foes.. and guess what, it really does matter more in that ha

Give me the best 64 teams each year plain and simple

 

[Zimwillett]

I get what you are saying, but I don't think it matters for what I'm arguing.

My argument is that if you can't approach a .500 record or better in your conference, no matter the conference, you probably don't belong in the Dance.

I'm not saying a 9-7 record in the Big 12 is the same as a 9-7 record in the American. Or the Colonial.

Haha. Let's test that theory with a couple of examples. I'm choosing the Pac 12. Not a mid major conference, but widely acknowledged worse conference than the Big 12.

1. UCLA is 9-7 in conference play, but 16-13 overall. They are 109th in the NET, 97th in KenPom, 39th in SOS. Their best win is @ #84 Oregon.

2. Utah is 9-7 in conference play, but 15-13 overall. They are 105th in NET, 118 in KenPom, 74th SOS. Their best wins are @ #46 Arizona State and home to #76 Tulsa.

3. Colorado is 8-8 in conference, but 17-11 overall. They are 75th in NET, 73rd in KenPom, 113 SOS. Best wins are ASU and Drake.

4. USC is 8-8 in conference, but 15-14 overall. They are 84th in NET, 93rd in KenPom, 101 SOS. Their only decent win is ASU.

Every one of these teams "approaching" .500 in a "major" conference. Are you seriously suggesting that these teams, by virtue of a few more wins in an obviously weaker conference should get in over a team like OU? If so, I guess I'm glad you're not on the selection committee.

 

[thebigabd]

This is not a great league. The Dance will show that, I believe. Like it did last year to some extent.

This is the worst year for the league that I can remember... KU isn't very good, Texas sucks, OU is average, OSU is having their worst season in a long time, ISU isn't very good... Top to bottom its just not a very good league this year.

At least it isn't just OU.

 

[WichitaSooner]

This is not a great league. The Dance will show that, I believe. Like it did last year to some extent.

One team in FF, two more in Elite Eight, and another in Sweet 16 last year somehow showed the league wasn't great? Pretty much every team made it as far, or further than, expected according to seeding.

As for this season, let's assume for the sake of argument that it isn't as strong as some past years. If it is still one of the best in the country, it still stands to reason that it deserves a lot of bids. Which leagues are better top to bottom? A couple might have more elite teams, but those leagues also have far more awful teams at the bottom. The league's performance in November and December is why it is ranked so highly. Those results have to mean something, notwithstanding subjective opinions that "so and so" sucks.

 

[oudna]

This is the worst year for the league that I can remember... KU isn't very good, Texas sucks, OU is average, OSU is having their worst season in a long time, ISU isn't very good... Top to bottom its just not a very good league this year.

At least it isn't just OU.

It’s because they all beat each other

It was the #1 conference in the nation OOC

 

[oudna]

#1 RPI conference in the country
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_big12_Men.html

 

[Zimwillett]

One team in FF, two more in Elite Eight, and another in Sweet 16 last year somehow showed the league wasn't great? Pretty much every team made it as far, or further than, expected according to seeding.

As for this season, let's assume for the sake of argument that it isn't as strong as some past years. If it is still one of the best in the country, it still stands to reason that it deserves a lot of bids. Which leagues are better top to bottom? A couple might have more elite teams, but those leagues also have far more awful teams at the bottom. The league's performance in November and December is why it is ranked so highly. Those results have to mean something, notwithstanding subjective opinions that "so and so" sucks.

So you're saying the Big 12, one of the smallest leagues in terms of total teams had 25% of the Sweet 16, 37.5% of the Elite 8, and 25% of the Final Four? Oh, and took out teams like Duke and Kentucky along the way? Yeah. That's a pretty awful performance.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

#1 RPI conference in the country
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_big12_Men.html

Looking at the RPI rankings and conference records, OU is an anomaly. Among teams ranked in the top-40, Oklahoma is the only team with a losing conference record.

All other teams in the top-40 are above .500 in their conferences, with #23 Mississippi State (9-8) having the next worse conference record other than Oklahoma (7-10).

 

[WTSooner]

It’s because they all beat each other

It was the #1 conference in the nation OOC

That is misleading. I can think of 2-3 conferences that have a shot at having 2+ teams outlast any single Big 12 team in the Dance.

The only thing the Big 12 has going for it is that our bottom teams might be better than some other conference's bottom teams. I think that is a misconception though, that having better bad teams matters. They are still teams that good conference teams should beat.

 

[Zimwillett]

That is misleading. I can think of 2-3 conferences that have a shot at having 2+ teams outlast any single Big 12 team in the Dance.

The only thing the Big 12 has going for it is that our bottom teams might be better than some other conference's bottom teams. I think that is a misconception though, that having better bad teams matters. They are still teams that good conference teams should beat.

I'd argue that conference success or failure in the tournament can be far more misleading. Luck of the draw can have such a major impact. Take K-State last year as an example. They were incredibly average and earned a 9 seed as a result. Then they hit the lottery by becoming the first ever 8/9 seed to draw a 16 seed in the 2nd round.

Don't get me wrong. K-State deserves credit for winning their first round game and taking out Kentucky in the Sweet 16, but its hard to argue that their unprecedented luck in round 2 probably helped them along the way, which, in turn, made the Big 12 look better.

In short, I think people put too much stock in the way post season play tends to absolutely "prove" the strength or weakness of an overall conference (it's even worse with college football bowls). That's not to say that post season success isn't a big part of the equation, but I don't think it's everything. Objective metrics like RPI can definitely tell part of the story.

 

[oudna]

The only thing the Big 12 has going for it is that our bottom teams might be better than some other conference's bottom teams. I think that is a misconception though, that having better bad teams matters. They are still teams that good conference teams should beat.

That and it being the #1 rated conference....

 

[WichitaSooner]

That is misleading. I can think of 2-3 conferences that have a shot at having 2+ teams outlast any single Big 12 team in the Dance.

The only thing the Big 12 has going for it is that our bottom teams might be better than some other conference's bottom teams. I think that is a misconception though, that having better bad teams matters. They are still teams that good conference teams should beat.

The strength of the bottom teams absolutely matters. Having a handful of awful teams at the bottom is an easy way to pile up wins, and that opportunity doesn't exist when there are only two relatively poor teams.

 

[hoopsaustin]

That and it being the #1 rated conference....

Lol wt is waaay off on this one

 

[Max Power]

The strength of the bottom teams absolutely matters. Having a handful of awful teams at the bottom is an easy way to pile up wins, and that opportunity doesn't exist when there are only two relatively poor teams.

and one of those poor teams is up by 21 at the half on a team many on this board consider to be the most talented in the Big 12

 

[oudna]

And 2nd best conference closer to 5th than 1st
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

 

[Sooner81]

Ugh

You don’t have to like my opinion - it’s like noses everybody has one including you. It doesn’t make my opinion or yours right its just a thought.
ESPN has several fairly smart NCAA basketball gurus and I’ve heard a few of them the last week offer these exact sentiments. They say that this Problem of teams getting in with poor conference records is going to get “fixed” in the off season, again not my words but some of theirs. I understand both sides of the argument and both sides can be argued effectively. First remember I am GLAD OU is going to get in as I love the Sooners and have supported them for 50 years! But it tastes real bad when teams with under 500 records in their own conference get in. Remember the committee has always said they look at Recent play very strongly. If OU loses in the first round of the Big-12 we would be 8-12 in our last 20 games (counting Vandy). 8-12 is not something you jump up and pound your chest about and scream from the rooftops LOL.
Again, I’m glad we are in but this is the reality of what many, not all, see when they look at this. We did some real good things out of conference but we laid some big time Eggs at home in conference - that’s the reality of the deal.