TexasHoops updated rankings

Sooner23 said:
Thanks.



Please tell us what you know about Kansas and Darrell Arthur.
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Jazzy Hartwell- AAU coach- gets paid to speak to basketball campers in line with George Bush, Bill Clinton, Steven Covey, Colin Powell, etc... Now he may be a hell of a speaker for all I know...
 
Capel's Mustache said:
BigTime VS DFW Hoopster - Round 71.....
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No doubt. I just have been hearing a lot of other stuff from guys down in Texas about Baylor recruiting. DFW is obviously really invested in the program and a huge fan, so I just am trying to warn people to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I am not hating on his basketball knowledge, and enjoy his non ass-kissing Baylor posts.

I heard quite a different Baylor-Warren story from two different guys and lets just say that Mama Warren wasn't too pleased at all when Willie nearly committed there and put her son right back on the straight and narrow. Strong, smart woman. (or maybe she just isn't a "good Christian woman", DFWH! lol)

Now I have no concrete proof of anything (just word of mouth), but have heard it from too many independent people that have no reason to make up stuff on Baylor.

I do know that Capel does it the right way, and if you don't believe me, ask anyone that is in the recruiting business or that is affiliated with the program. We can all be very proud of the way Capel handles his business. He is all class! :jcapel:clap

sys,

Disagree regarding A&M's '09 class. I think they are ranked just right. I agree that they have some serious potential brewing for the 2011 class though. Our big year may end up being in 2012!
 
I don't have any info on Washburn......I can ask around and see if I can find anything...BUT they just hired a new coach......so that could affect any new info for some guys. LOL


Also, I am no longer in Texas so that hinders me a little too. I am now in North Carolina but have a lot of friends coaching in Texas so I will see if I can dig up any dirt on things.

The whole WW situation at Baylor was odd....I talked to one of their assistant coaches when they were having a Five Star camp at Baylor and he was a little 'giddy' about Warren committing at the time. LOL I was sure glad when he switched and went to OU!!!! LOL

I know Capel or someone on staff was in my area last year to look at a guard at a local school here....kid is getting recruited by EVERYONE (including Duke and UNC) and word around here has him leaning toward UNC (former player from that HS plays there) but I have no proof of that.....just word of mouth.

Oak Hill played in this area last year against a team that will be in our conference next year but Gallon didn't play in the game (think he was hurt). The school that is in our conference next year lost to them by about 12 or 14. they have 3 or 4 DI kids on their team. (I have one (but he is probably a low to mid-major DI and not an OU-caliber player)...MAYBE two, depending on how much the second improves over the next 3 years as he was only a FR this year.) Any guys I see that I know OU is recruiting I will let you know how they look.
 
BigTime said:
No doubt. I just have been hearing a lot of other stuff from guys down in Texas about Baylor recruiting. DFW is obviously really invested in the program and a huge fan, so I just am trying to warn people to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I am not hating on his basketball knowledge, and enjoy his non ass-kissing Baylor posts.

I heard quite a different Baylor-Warren story from two different guys and lets just say that Mama Warren wasn't too pleased at all when Willie nearly committed there and put her son right back on the straight and narrow. Strong, smart woman. (or maybe she just isn't a "good Christian woman", DFWH! lol)

Now I have no concrete proof of anything (just word of mouth), but have heard it from too many independent people that have no reason to make up stuff on Baylor.

I do know that Capel does it the right way, and if you don't believe me, ask anyone that is in the recruiting business or that is affiliated with the program. We can all be very proud of the way Capel handles his business. He is all class! :jcapel:clap

sys,

Disagree regarding A&M's '09 class. I think they are ranked just right. I agree that they have some serious potential brewing for the 2011 class though. Our big year may end up being in 2012!
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Big Time- I am getting all my ducks in a row and then I'm coming back at you guns blazing :)
 
DFWHoopster said:
Big Time- I am getting all my ducks in a row and then I'm coming back at you guns blazing :)
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haha I will be here waiting for ya. :chestram2:

It really will be interesting to see how the bears do this year. I am so jacked about our league and how good it hopefully will be. It has been a long time coming.
 
Here is my Baylor cheats story: I asked J K (sorry had to use initials), former assistant under Billy and head coach at Western Illinois, what he thought whenever Baylor hired Scott Drew (for those that don't know Kerwin's Leathernecks faced Homer Drew's Valpo squads for years), his quote was "seems like an odd hire". I asked him to elaborate and he said with all the mess Baylor just got into you would think they would hire somebody squeaky clean. He proceeds to tell me how Homer & son have been cheating for years at Valpo. Cash to players, doctoring foreign players transcripts..

Just a little tidbit I thought I would share on Scotty

Also, this is not the only source I have heard stories on the dirt that is Drew's Bears
 
Guys you would be SHOCKED at the amount of cheating that goes on in major college sports (particularly hoops). Programs that have an EXTREMELY squeaky clean image that do all kinds of under the table stuff.

I got a second-hand quote from the former HS coach of a kid signed by a big SEC school (I am trying not to name names or programs) this year (the quote came from a VERY good friend of mine that I trust completely) and he said this player had a LOT of grade issues in HS but his former HS coach was told by a MAJOR DI school (after his possible grade problems were brought up) and I quote "Coach, we aren't recruiting __________ for academics, we are recruiting him to be a basketball player"


That quote in itself is a MAJOR red flag to me in regards to the integrity of a lot of coaches. Granted the quote wasn't attributed to the school the kid signed with but another HIGH MAJOR program that was recruiting the kid hard. Still....tells you the thought process.
 
I agree with SouthTX Coach that there is a tremendous amount of cheating that goes on with NCAA hoops and football. And the NCAA knows it. They choose to look the other way because there is big money involved.

A personal story:

I played basketball for a school in Maryland in high school. We had 5 guys play D1 ball from my team. One of the players was hotly recruited by Univ of Maryland, UNC, Duke and Georgetown. The player ended up at Georgetown. All of these schools offered "benefits"- women; cash through boosters; cars at significant discounts; etc...

Now the 1980s was a time where cheating was rampant. I think it has been cleaned up some due to the news media and internet. But I have no doubt that some coaches have ways to get kids eligible that have terrible academics (Calipari) and other coaches direct payments to AAU coaches and handlers through forgiveable loans and large speaking fees at basketball camps.

I grew up a big ACC fan- especially Maryland. Since I moved to Texas in the late 80s, I have followed SWC, Big 8 and Big 12hoops. Obviously, only the coaches and players know the full extent of what is going on in regards to cheating.

My rooting interest are:

1. Baylor
2. Missouri
3. A&M
4. OU
5. Whoever plays UT

I realize BigTime has some kind of bromance going on with Rick Barnes and UT based on his zealous defense of Barnes when I have taken a couple of shots at UT. I agree that I have biases for Baylor and against UT. But no one is unbiased. There is no such thing as a brute fact. We all bring biases to every issue in life.

I say that in the interest of full disclosure. I am a Baylor fan because of what Drew has done there. I respect him and like the school. I think the group of coaches that they have there are hard working and easy to like.

I have heard rumors surrounding the recruiting of Kevin Durant; Byron Eaton; Anthony Jones; Willie Warren and others. All of those rumors involved improper benefits from schools other than Baylor. These rumors could all be false.

My theory on why people accuse Baylor of cheating:

1. He pissed Bobby Knight off by sending out a letter that was viewed as negative recruiting. The letter had a couple of established coaches on it and said something to the effect of which coach has recruited a Parade All American (Tweety Carter)? Knight's name was crossed out along with someone else. It seems very trivial to me and not even an effective recruiting technique in my mind... but Knight was pissed and had it out for Drew since that day. Since Bobby Knight is thought of as some "pure angel" in terms of not cheating, I think other coaches took Knight's dislike for Drew to imply Drew is dirty.

2. Drew hired Jerome Tang- an AAU coach who had strong connections to Houston and Louisiana. Tang did not have a college degree at the time of hire. Now this practice has become more and more common, but five years ago it was viewed as selling out to the AAU system. That hire has really benefited Baylor in terms of getting good talent (Dunn, Carter, Anthony Jones, Dugat).

3. Drew then hired Dwon Clifton (AAU coach for John Wall) to be director of basketball operations. Clearly this was a move to get John Wall's commitment. But it did not work out for Baylor. To Baylor's credit, they were upfront about this hire and did it prior to Wall's decision and have decided to keep Clifton on staff even after Wall chose UK.

Those three moves ruffled feathers and have earned Drew the reputation that he will do whatever it takes to get recruits.

As far as the accusation that Baylor boosters offered Willie Warren money... I guess you cannot control what rogue boosters do, but I would be really surprised if that were done under the knowledge of the coaching staff. They did try to hire someone close to Warren to secure his commitment, but the guy declined (which I admire). Again, this is not an illegal practice. You might say it is unethical, but that is a whole other discussion.

As far as the accusation that Drew and his father have fraudulently doctored foreign players academic records, what names? I have no idea what took place at Valpo. I would think Valpo would have had more success if they were paying players. It is a decent mid-major program but wouldn't they have become a Butler or Gonzaga if they were paying guys? Logic would say yes.

Drew has signed some foreign players at Baylor:

Bruce
Diene
Thiam (transferred to Wyoming)
Vantaja (went back to Finland after a year)
Sekelja (Croatian big man coming to Baylor in August)

None of those had academic problems at Baylor. Bruce and Diene graduated with honors. Now Thiam came from that Stoneridge Prep which has the reputation as a diploma mill. But these guys all got through the NCAA clearinghouse.

Rumors can take on a life of their own. Sometimes there is some truth behind it and often it is just girlie gossip that gets out of hand. I hear things all the time about OU (mostly from UT fans) about how Blake Griffin and Willie Warren turned down clear opportunities of lottery money because they are getting well paid at OU. I dismiss this as typical sour grapes by rival fans. I see a lot of the same with Baylor.

I don't plan on rehashing these same arguments over and over, but I will defend Drew's honor until there is any proof of illegal activity. The guy has not had any issues with the NCAA. I think he does things the right way within the law. And until proven otherwise by actual evidence and not "rumors"; "smoke"; "hearsay", I will continue to believe that these claims are based on Drew going outside the "coaches handbook" on getting players to commit to Baylor.
 
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My cousin played baseball at Texas in the 90s. He was WELL taken care of. He often remarked that as well as they paid their baseball players, it was scary to think how much their football and basketball were getting.
 
SouthTXCoach said:
Guys you would be SHOCKED at the amount of cheating that goes on in major college sports (particularly hoops). Programs that have an EXTREMELY squeaky clean image that do all kinds of under the table stuff.

I got a second-hand quote from the former HS coach of a kid signed by a big SEC school (I am trying not to name names or programs) this year (the quote came from a VERY good friend of mine that I trust completely) and he said this player had a LOT of grade issues in HS but his former HS coach was told by a MAJOR DI school (after his possible grade problems were brought up) and I quote "Coach, we aren't recruiting __________ for academics, we are recruiting him to be a basketball player"


That quote in itself is a MAJOR red flag to me in regards to the integrity of a lot of coaches. Granted the quote wasn't attributed to the school the kid signed with but another HIGH MAJOR program that was recruiting the kid hard. Still....tells you the thought process.
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Its amazing really. Some of the stories that I have been told by a guy that dabbles in Texas high school recruiting will blow you away. Again, makes you glad that we have a guy that is doing it right.

DFW,

You most likely never will get direct evidence, and if you do, it will be minor ( like Self's coat or Sampson making phone calls). Nearly all the big stuff goes on through second parties ( boosters). You can defend Drew's honor all you want, but none of your listed reasons are reasons why the people that I talk to would "unfairly" "accuse" Drew of blatent cheating. I'm sorry, but two of these guys (one in particular) actually like Baylor as fans. They have no reason to make stuff up. I hope he goes down, but you know what? He probably never will....

I would be concerned if multiple fanbases and multiple recruiting guys were accusing Capel of cheating.....

As for Barnes, I think he is the best coach in the league right now. He gets no support down in Austin and gets national top recruits to buy into what he is doing. Imagine what he could do at Kansas? You don't like him because of what he said about Drew. I strongly dislike all things Texas Longhorn, but Barnes is a great coach and a good guy.
 
Drew may be completely on the up and up. I have no evidence he isn't. But, at some point you have to ask yourself, WHY. Why would a top player want to go there as opposed to a school that is on TV a lot, competes for conference championships, regularly expects to make the sweet sixteen, occassionally makes a final four, and has ambitions of winning the whole enchilada? They have no real basketball history, no tradition, no track record that coaches can point to, no hope of a national championship, not even any hope of a Big 12 championship unless OU, KU, and UT decides to give up basketball.

I'm sure there must be a logical explanation of how Drew is bringing in good players but so far I haven't figured it out...although I must admit, I have my suspicions.
 
BigTime said:
Its amazing really. Some of the stories that I have been told by a guy that dabbles in Texas high school recruiting will blow you away. Again, makes you glad that we have a guy that is doing it right.

DFW,

You most likely never will get direct evidence, and if you do, it will be minor ( like Self's coat or Sampson making phone calls). Nearly all the big stuff goes on through second parties ( boosters). You can defend Drew's honor all you want, but none of your listed reasons are reasons why the people that I talk to would "unfairly" "accuse" Drew of blatent cheating. I'm sorry, but two of these guys (one in particular) actually like Baylor as fans. They have no reason to make stuff up. I hope he goes down, but you know what? He probably never will....

I would be concerned if multiple fanbases and multiple recruiting guys were accusing Capel of cheating.....

As for Barnes, I think he is the best coach in the league right now. He gets no support down in Austin and gets national top recruits to buy into what he is doing. Imagine what he could do at Kansas? You don't like him because of what he said about Drew. I strongly dislike all things Texas Longhorn, but Barnes is a great coach and a good guy.
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My dislike for UT has nothing to do with what the Ferret said about Drew. I would suspect that Drew isn't doing his job right if the other coaches in the league are buddy/buddy with him. I dislike UT for other reasons (school colors; arrogant fan base with low sports IQs; inherit advantages at taxpayer expense; elitism; etc...)

I think I am a decent reader of character in people. Dave Bliss for example gave me bad vibes. Dale Brown at LSU was another one who seemed like a fraud to me. I never get that sense about Drew and I've been around him in situations where he lets his guard down. Those who know him best would fall on their sword for him.

I was at the Cotton Bowl a few years back sitting with some OU fans when OU whipped UT 63-35 or something crazy. A couple of UT fans spit towards our section and said something like, "You can beat us but you can never be us." I think that attitude typifies a decent portion of their fan base.
 
DFWHoopster said:
My dislike for UT has nothing to do with what the Ferret said about Drew. I would suspect that Drew isn't doing his job right if the other coaches in the league are buddy/buddy with him. I dislike UT for other reasons (school colors; arrogant fan base with low sports IQs; inherit advantages at taxpayer expense; elitism; etc...) I think I am a decent reader of character in people. Dave Bliss for example gave me bad vibes. Dale Brown at LSU was another one who seemed like a fraud to me. I never get that sense about Drew and I've been around him in situations where he lets his guard down. Those who know him best would fall on their sword for him.

I was at the Cotton Bowl a few years back sitting with some OU fans when OU whipped UT 63-35 or something crazy. A couple of UT fans spit towards our section and said something like, "You can beat us but you can never be us." I think that attitude typifies a decent portion of their fan base.
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Those are the reasons why nearly every OU fan dislikes Texas as well, and your last paragraph is textbook. Again, I loathe the whorns but like Barnes. Why do you call him the ferret?
 
SoonerNorm said:
Drew may be completely on the up and up. I have no evidence he isn't. But, at some point you have to ask yourself, WHY. Why would a top player want to go there as opposed to a school that is on TV a lot, competes for conference championships, regularly expects to make the sweet sixteen, occassionally makes a final four, and has ambitions of winning the whole enchilada? They have no real basketball history, no tradition, no track record that coaches can point to, no hope of a national championship, not even any hope of a Big 12 championship unless OU, KU, and UT decides to give up basketball.

I'm sure there must be a logical explanation of how Drew is bringing in good players but so far I haven't figured it out...although I must admit, I have my suspicions.
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Baylor is on TV plenty. They have a good school in a great strategic location for recruiting purposes- close to Houston/San Antonio/Austin/Dallas. They can compete for big 12 and national championships.

I know MBB and Football are king. But Baylor has won national championships in WBB, track and tennis in the last 5 years. They have been to the CWS recently. There is no reason they cannot excel at a high level like other top private schools around the country- Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame, BYU, Gonzaga, Georgetown, Xavier to name a few.

They had the #2 pick in the NFL draft this year- Jason Smith. Everyone knows Jeremy Wariner and Michael Johnson because of their Olympic success. They have top notch facilities. Smaller school has more of a family feel than larger state universities. I'm close to the situation, trust me Baylor has a lot to sell.
 
BigTime said:
Those are the reasons why nearly every OU fan dislikes Texas as well, and your last paragraph is textbook. Again, I loathe the whorns but like Barnes. Why do you call him the ferret?
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He and Coach K look like Ferrets
 
I'll give you the only snippet of info I have directly about Rick Barnes. I was formerly a DIII assistant in Texas. there was a big HS tournament being held at our place. There were a TON of big time guys there from big name programs because Deron Williams and about 4 other MAJOR DI kids were playing. I was on my way out the door to go recruit and Rick Branes walked in about the same time I was leaving. Barnes came out of his way to come over to me and introduce himself to me and say hello. He was a VERY nice guy, very friendly, and very down to earth. I hate UT but Barnes is a tough guy to dislike.
 
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