2021 committ

[WTSooner]

We can do better. Joe c will come through when Lon retires after next year or two.

We'll see. It's definitely not certain that we'll do better. I hope Joe C. has figured out what works best here, and finds a coach that fits that culture. But it'll likely be a coach that is risky. Just need to get it right. Tubbs worked out. Kelvin worked out. Capel did not work out. Then we hired the old gun to stabilize things, which he's done. The question is, what's next?

 

[AdaSooner]

What is the allure that is A&M? I don't get it.

Seems obvious to me it’s Buzz Williams. He went head to head with Lon and won in recruiting Ada’s top 40 SG, Jaxson Robinson. Now, he’s done it again in getting a commitment from Manny O, reported to be the most coveted guard on OU’s recruiting list. Disappointing, to say the least!

I wanted Williams after Capel left, and I was disappointed when he decided to stay at Marquette. Some may pooh-pooh his energy and enthusiasm on the sideline. I remember posting a video of his “walk it out dance” when he was said to be a candidate for the OU job. But recruits must like what they see in him. Robinson and Manny O are proof of that.

I’ll also add thst Williams was named SEC Coach of the Year by the AP, so he must be doing something right.

 

[152219]

The question is, what's next?

That is an excellent question and one that should be on the minds of all OU hoops fans. If a poor happens, the program may crash and burn for some time (worse than the end of the Capel years).

 

[152219]

Seems obvious to me it’s Buzz Williams. He went head to head with Lon and won in recruiting Ada’s top 40 SG, Jaxson Robinson. Now, he’s done it again in getting a commitment from Manny O, reported to be the most coveted guard on OU’s recruiting list. Disappointing, to say the least!

I wanted Williams after Capel left, and I was disappointed when he decided to stay at Marquette. Some may pooh-pooh his energy and enthusiasm on the sideline. I remember posting a video of his “walk it out dance” when he was said to be a candidate for the OU job. But recruits must like what they see in him. Robinson and Manny O are proof of that.

I’ll also add thst Williams was named SEC Coach of the Year by the AP, so he must be doing something right.

A&M has also gone all in with $$$ to bring in winning football and men's basketball teams with that money spread wide.

 

[AdaSooner]

A&M has also gone all in with $$$ to bring in winning football and men's basketball teams with that money spread wide.

All in with $$$ how? Facilities, advertising and PR campaigns, etc. or paying players under the table? If it’s paying players, do you have proof?

Not doubting what you’re saying. I just want to know what ATM is doing that OU is not?

 

[thebigabd]

All in with $$$ how? Facilities, advertising and PR campaigns, etc. or paying players under the table? If it’s paying players, do you have proof?

Not doubting what you’re saying. I just want to know what ATM is doing that OU is not?

Is it possible that players today aren't sure if Lon Kruger is even going to be their coach in 4-5 years? It's not likely Lon is still coaching at that point, so players might not really know what they are committing to. Maybe Long is there for their fresh and sophomore years, but retires, and now they don't know what they are getting.

If my son was a high school basketball player, I would be considering that. Rumors of retirement, flat performance, no program growth, little energy, etc.. Those are all things happening at OU currently.

 

[AdaSooner]

In searching for a reason for ATM’s recruiting success, I found this Twitter post. Check out the effort their staff made in getting Hassan Diarra’s commitment.

Is it possible they’re simply out working our coaching staff? Granted, it was costly to make that many trips to Connecticut. But most kids tend to respond when coaches show them a lot of love.

https://www.goodbullhunting.com/2019/10/22/20924318/texas-a-m-basketball-adds-two-2020-recruits

 

[WichitaSooner]

All in with $$$ how? Facilities, advertising and PR campaigns, etc. or paying players under the table? If it’s paying players, do you have proof?

Not doubting what you’re saying. I just want to know what ATM is doing that OU is not?

Missing the tournament is the obvious answer.

Kidding aside, while I understand it sucks to lose recruiting battles, would anyone here honestly want to change positions with A&M? They have taken some steps that might help them get where we already are. And every program, even the blue bloods, miss out on plenty of kids they recruit heavily. If you are recruiting good players, there will be lots of other programs who want the same guys, so you aren't going to get everyone you want. We're a year away from the 2021 class being final. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

 

[MJSooner]

That is an excellent question and one that should be on the minds of all OU hoops fans. If a poor happens, the program may crash and burn for some time (worse than the end of the Capel years).

This.

For all those clamoring to get rid of Lon to hire someone better, I remind you that Texas got rid of Rick Barnes, an older coach that didn't seem to be moving a good program to the "next level", and hired Shaka Smart. How has that worked out for both Rick Barnes and Texas?

 

[WTSooner]

This.

For all those clamoring to get rid of Lon to hire someone better, I remind you that Texas got rid of Rick Barnes, an older coach that didn't seem to be moving a good program to the "next level", and hired Shaka Smart. How has that worked out for both Rick Barnes and Texas?

We, or anybody, shouldn't NOT make changes for fear of going backwards. It's a chance you have to take sometimes. There is always that risk. I'm smart enough to realize that in Joe C's eyes, Lon is doing enough to not lose his job. Some OU fans want better. I'm one of them. But I know we aren't going to fire a coach that just finished tied for 3rd and made the Tournament. Just not going to happen, regardless of all the other factors and what you really think of those results.

 

[steverocks35]

Manny O quote: "“Buzz [Williams] is incredible, his input on just being a better man is amazing"

 

[152219]

All in with $$$ how? Facilities, advertising and PR campaigns, etc. or paying players under the table? If it’s paying players, do you have proof?

Not doubting what you’re saying. I just want to know what ATM is doing that OU is not?

All that you said above and hiring the best coaches money can buy, following the SEC bagman rules (yes, there are rules), "Aggies take care of Aggies" after graduation, etc.

 

[skyvue]

Rumors of retirement, flat performance, no program growth, little energy, etc.. Those are all things happening at OU currently.

Williams isn't rumored to be retiring (I'm not sure Kruger is, either, apart from the wishful thinking on this board), but I'm not sure I see that much difference otherwise. Obaseki is from texas, no? It shouldn't be a huge surprise he'd go to a texas school.

A&M tied for sixth in a weaker conference than the Big 12 -- they were picked 12th; OU was picked eighth and finished tied for third. Not a huge difference there. The aggies are not even under consideration for the NCAA tourney, their NET ranking is well outside the Top 100, and all this against a so-so schedule (74 in Kenpom).

A&M finished 14-18 last season, so their current record of 16-14 is an improvement, but not that big a bump. I don't really get the Coach of the Year award for Williams for such a modest turnaround, but perhaps there's something I'm missing.

 

[thebigabd]

Williams isn't rumored to be retiring (I'm not sure Kruger is, either, apart from the wishful thinking on this board), but I'm not sure I see that much difference otherwise. Obaseki is from texas, no? It shouldn't be a huge surprise he'd go to a texas school.

A&M tied for sixth in a weaker conference than the Big 12 -- they were picked 12th; OU was picked eighth and finished tied for third. Not a huge difference there. The aggies are not even under consideration for the NCAA tourney, their NET ranking is well outside the Top 100, and all this against a so-so schedule (74 in Kenpom).

A&M finished 14-18 last season, so their current record of 16-14 is an improvement, but not that big a bump. I don't really get the Coach of the Year award for Williams for such a modest turnaround, but perhaps there's something I'm missing.

I was talking about Kruger and OU in that quote, not A&M.

 

[AdaSooner]

Missing the tournament is the obvious answer.

Kidding aside, while I understand it sucks to lose recruiting battles, would anyone here honestly want to change positions with A&M? They have taken some steps that might help them get where we already are. And every program, even the blue bloods, miss out on plenty of kids they recruit heavily. If you are recruiting good players, there will be lots of other programs who want the same guys, so you aren't going to get everyone you want. We're a year away from the 2021 class being final. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

I wouldn’t want to trade places with A&M fans this year. But Williams has only been there since April, 2019. He’s not just a good recruiter, he’s a good coach. If he continues to recruit well, I don’t see them missing the tourney next season.

I think OU will be there, too. But we can’t keep missing out on recruits like Manny O and Robinson if we want to do more than just make the dance. I’m greedy enough to want another Final Four.

 

[AdaSooner]

All that you said above and hiring the best coaches money can buy, following the SEC bagman rules (yes, there are rules), "Aggies take care of Aggies" after graduation, etc.

I understand now. To my surprise (not really) there are articles online about SEC bagmen, some dating back to 2014.

If you believe the FBI reports about Self and other coaches paying players (and I do), schools in other conferences, including the Big 12 have bagmen. They’re called shoe agents.

 

[skyvue]

I wouldn’t want to trade places with A&M fans this year. But Williams has only been there since April, 2019. He’s not just a good recruiter, he’s a good coach. If he continues to recruit well, I don’t see them missing the tourney next season.

I think OU will be there, too. But we can’t keep missing out on recruits like Manny O and Robinson if we want to do more than just make the dance. I’m greedy enough to want another Final Four.

I'm not happy about missing out on them, either, believe me. But to me, it's never a shock to lose a kid to a school in his home state (just as our fans hold our coaches to a high standard in recruiting local kids, I'm sure A&M fans do the same).

You know more about Robinson than I do (by far) -- was he ever a possibility for us to sign?

 

[skyvue]

I was talking about Kruger and OU in that quote, not A&M.

I'm fully aware of that, but the discussion at large was comparing OU to A&M and Kruger to Williams.

I was pointing out that things are not currently better at A&M (aside from the two recent recruits they snagged). In fact, their current status and recent history is worse. So to detail all the issues you see with OU's program while not doing the same for A&M seems questionable to me, so I did the comparison for you.

 

[WTSooner]

I was pointing out that things are not currently better at A&M (aside from the two recent recruits they snagged).

You are comparing a coach that hasn't even been on campus for 12 months to one that has been at his current school for 9 seasons now.

The expectations AT THIS point, when comparing, aren't the same.

I would guess that over the next 3-5 years aTM will have either somewhat equal or better results than OU. I only temper that in that Buzz still won't have his guys only on the roster for another couple of years. So next year might not be great, but I'd expect 2022 to start seeing them improve considerably.

 

[MJSooner]

You are comparing a coach that hasn't even been on campus for 12 months to one that has been at his current school for 9 seasons now.

The expectations AT THIS point, when comparing, aren't the same.

I would guess that over the next 3-5 years aTM will have either somewhat equal or better results than OU. I only temper that in that Buzz still won't have his guys only on the roster for another couple of years. So next year might not be great, but I'd expect 2022 to start seeing them improve considerably.

I agree with you about expectations, but what in Buzz's past makes you think he will have better results than OU.

He has career winning % at about .610, barely over .500 in the NCAA, only made it past the sweet 16 once, and despite coaching at different schools and conferences, he has never coached his teams to an outright conference title.

As I stated earlier, these are the same reasons people want to fire Kruger.

I don't understand all the lovefest for Buzz. Is it based on his career record that is arguably equal or weaker than Kruger's? Is it based on the fact he got a commitment from an instate recruit? Is it because he put a YouTube video out there about the national anthem? Is it just because he dresses cool, rants and raves on the sidelines and is more "into the game"? Well, so does Bruce Weber and KState and I'm pretty sure no one is in love with him.

I don't get it.