2021 committ

[sheepdogs1]

That's a pretty short list, especially if you take out a guy like Young, but I'll play.

Young - Win
Lazenby - Loss
Woodard - Win

So, I mean, I guess you are right, but from 2011 to 2019, he's only had those three from Oklahoma.

Now, guards from that time from other states:
I'm going to skip Harmon Reaves, and Williams, b/c both are in their first years at OU.

JB - Loss, but he has 2 more years at OU.
McGusty - Loss
Shepherd - Loss
Strong - Loss
Odomes/James - Not sure what to call these. I think all OU fans expected more, but they weren't terrible. I'm going to call this a split, 1 win and 1 loss.
Walker - Loss
Booker - Loss
Hornbeak - Loss
Hield - Win
Cousins - Win

And I'd call the two grad transfers losses, or a split at best.

This list is reverse chronological, so if you take away the Hornbeak/Hield, Cousins class, that is a lot of losses in a row. I expect Harmon to eventually be a win. And lucky for us Young basically lived on campus growing up. But that is a LOT of misses on other players. I actually think he's recruited better inside.

Very nice synopsis. Seems that to critique things in a proper fashion one needs to be able to look at both the good and bad side of things and this in itself eliminates a fair share of the population. Purely rhetorical in nature, but would you choose to go to a doctor who only told his/her patients that "everything was fine."

 

[CoachTalk]

That's a pretty short list, especially if you take out a guy like Young, but I'll play.

Young - Win
Lazenby - Loss
Woodard - Win

So, I mean, I guess you are right, but from 2011 to 2019, he's only had those three from Oklahoma.

Now, guards from that time from other states:
I'm going to skip Harmon Reaves, and Williams, b/c both are in their first years at OU.

JB - Loss, but he has 2 more years at OU.
McGusty - Loss
Shepherd - Loss
Strong - Loss
Odomes/James - Not sure what to call these. I think all OU fans expected more, but they weren't terrible. I'm going to call this a split, 1 win and 1 loss.
Walker - Loss
Booker - Loss
Hornbeak - Loss
Hield - Win
Cousins - Win

And I'd call the two grad transfers losses, or a split at best.

This list is reverse chronological, so if you take away the Hornbeak/Hield, Cousins class, that is a lot of losses in a row. I expect Harmon to eventually be a win. And lucky for us Young basically lived on campus growing up. But that is a LOT of misses on other players. I actually think he's recruited better inside.

You hated Manek too. We’ll see how this plays out in a few years.

 

[sheepdogs1]

You hated Manek too. We’ll see how this plays out in a few years.

Other than it bothering you deeply how does that affect what he wrote?

 

[CoachTalk]

Other than it bothering you deeply how does that affect what he wrote?

Just pointing out facts.

Transfers are normal. Life happens things change.

Booting players happen. Some dads make their kids transfer.

Nothing on this list is much different than most teams in America.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Just pointing out facts.

Transfers are normal. Life happens things change.

Booting players happen. Some dads make their kids transfer.

Nothing on this list is much different than most teams in America.

You're conveniently skirting the question. What player critique was inaccurate as far as the win was actually a loss or vice versa? His summary was based on players recruited and how they panned out regardless of whether they stayed, transferred, shown the door etc.

 

[skyvue]

Neither James, Odomes nor JB are losses by any reasonable definition. James was third-team All-Big 12 and ranked eighth in conference in scoring and ninth in rebounding, Odomes started 70+ games and was one of our best defenders throughout his career (also, both James and Odomes were first-team Academic All-Big 12 -- yeah, I care about that), and JB is a very solid player who earned a starting role as a true freshman and has kept it to date.

 

[CoachTalk]

That's a pretty short list, especially if you take out a guy like Young, but I'll play.

Young - Win
Lazenby - Loss
Woodard - Win

So, I mean, I guess you are right, but from 2011 to 2019, he's only had those three from Oklahoma.

Now, guards from that time from other states:
I'm going to skip Harmon Reaves, and Williams, b/c both are in their first years at OU.

JB - Loss, but he has 2 more years at OU.
McGusty - Loss
Shepherd - Loss
Strong - Loss
Odomes/James - Not sure what to call these. I think all OU fans expected more, but they weren't terrible. I'm going to call this a split, 1 win and 1 loss.
Walker - Loss
Booker - Loss
Hornbeak - Loss
Hield - Win
Cousins - Win

And I'd call the two grad transfers losses, or a split at best.

This list is reverse chronological, so if you take away the Hornbeak/Hield, Cousins class, that is a lot of losses in a row. I expect Harmon to eventually be a win. And lucky for us Young basically lived on campus growing up. But that is a LOT of misses on other players. I actually think he's recruited better inside.

These are crap.

Mcgusty was fine till transfer. Things happen.

Shepherd was fine as a backup until his dad went nuts. Told him he was better than TY. Avg 14 at Charlotte. He needed to stay one more year for us to see him take off. Crap happens.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Neither James, Odomes nor JB are losses by any reasonable definition. James was third-team All-Big 12 and ranked eighth in conference in scoring and ninth in rebounding, Odomes started 70+ games and was one of our best defenders throughout his career (also, both James and Odomes were first-team Academic All-Big 12 -- yeah, I care about that), and JB is a very solid player who earned a starting role as a true freshman and has kept it to date.

All true, plus we dont make the tournament last year without Calixte and Reynolds, so to call those losses is wrong, too. If the standard is that someone needs to be a star and/or play four years is the standard, not many guys around the country are wins, I guess.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Neither James, Odomes nor JB are losses by any reasonable definition. James was third-team All-Big 12 and ranked eighth in conference in scoring and ninth in rebounding, Odomes started 70+ games and was one of our best defenders throughout his career (also, both James and Odomes were first-team Academic All-Big 12 -- yeah, I care about that), and JB is a very solid player who earned a starting role as a true freshman and has kept it to date.

That's fine, but there were 14 players enumerated, depending on who you ask, and missing on 3 provides for a 78.6% degree of accuracy.

 

[sheepdogs1]

All true, plus we dont make the tournament last year without Calixte and Reynolds, so to call those losses is wrong, too. If the standard is that someone needs to be a star and/or play four years is the standard, not many guys around the country are wins, I guess.

Neither Calixte or Reynolds were mentioned (did I miss the fine print). Make sense? I mean who called them a loss (WTSooner didn't) unless your personal inference makes things which did not appear, appear.

 

[SoonerJK12]

Ok, so the coach that has recruited some of the best guards in the history of our school - Woodard, Cousins, Hield, Young— over the past 8 years and has “missed” on several role players that backed them up should be questioned about his evaluation and recruitment of guards. Gotcha.

WTSooner, not every player is recruited to be all big 12. Odomes and James are “wins”. Both of them. McGusty had the talent, just transferred. It’s too early for JB. And you forgot about a great role player, Sam Grooms. Shame on you!

And arguments like “when you take away...” are so hilariously bad — there are no words.

It’s like saying the 2008 OU basketball wouldn’t have been very good without Blake Griffin. Just a dumb thing to say.

 

[SoonerJK12]

Neither Calixte or Reynolds were mentioned (did I miss the fine print). Make sense? I mean who called them a loss (WTSooner didn't) unless your personal inference makes things which did not appear, appear.

He did mention them. Just not by name. Please read his post again at a much slower pace so as to not come off as jerk next time.

 

[sheepdogs1]

He did mention them. Just not by name. Please read his post again at a much slower pace so as to not come off as jerk next time.

I used the list of names provided as opposed to those alluded to. And if you are made a better man by name calling then jolly for you.

 

[stormspencer]

Kids like this are the backbone of your program. We're not going to have Burger Boys lining up to come to Oklahoma. But we can build through guards who stay four years.

Welcome aboard!

Damn straight....I'm for quality local kids that will come in and work their ass off and want to be here. I will go on record....this is a win.

 

[stormspencer]

I like Cortes a lot more than Phipps. I think Cortes is athletic and tough enough to defend in the the Big 12. Phipps I'm not so sure.
Still need to get the Alexanders/Obasekis of the world or we're not getting out of the conference cellar any time soon.

Seriously my man......just stop.

 

[WaymanFan]

That's a pretty short list, especially if you take out a guy like Young, but I'll play.

Young - Win
Lazenby - Loss
Woodard - Win

So, I mean, I guess you are right, but from 2011 to 2019, he's only had those three from Oklahoma.

Now, guards from that time from other states:
I'm going to skip Harmon Reaves, and Williams, b/c both are in their first years at OU.

JB - Loss, but he has 2 more years at OU.
McGusty - Loss
Shepherd - Loss
Strong - Loss
Odomes/James - Not sure what to call these. I think all OU fans expected more, but they weren't terrible. I'm going to call this a split, 1 win and 1 loss.
Walker - Loss
Booker - Loss
Hornbeak - Loss
Hield - Win
Cousins - Win

And I'd call the two grad transfers losses, or a split at best.

This list is reverse chronological, so if you take away the Hornbeak/Hield, Cousins class, that is a lot of losses in a row. I expect Harmon to eventually be a win. And lucky for us Young basically lived on campus growing up. But that is a LOT of misses on other players. I actually think he's recruited better inside.

One can see clearly that there is some bias for sure. Most of the losses were end of the roster-type recruits. I'm guessing that if you put something like this together for Kelvin Sampson, you would hesitate to call DeAngelo Alexander, Drew Lavender or Lawrence McKenzie a LOSS. If you're going to call guys like McGusty, Shepherd, and Hornbeak losses (guys who were solid players for OU and high end starters as transfers), then I guess every transfer counts as a loss - and that means lots and lots of recruiting losses for Kelvin Sampson. Bottom line - transfers happen.

Also, I'm not calling Booker a loss, either, because I love when OU gets to play in the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament and that doesn't happen in 2015 without his heroics against Dayton - he hit the 3-pointer that turned the game around.

Finally, James, Odomes, Reynolds and Calixte were not losses based on what a reasonable person should have expected from them - and they ALL contributed for OU last year.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I used the list of names provided as opposed to those alluded to. And if you are made a better man by name calling then jolly for you.

Lol. That's some reasoning that even Bill Clinton and his definition of "is" would find ridiculous. Anyone who reads this board knows who "the two grad transfer guards" are, so he doesn't get a pass on that just because he didn't take the time to type their names.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I like Cortes a lot more than Phipps. I think Cortes is athletic and tough enough to defend in the the Big 12. Phipps I'm not so sure.
Still need to get the Alexanders/Obasekis of the world or we're not getting out of the conference cellar any time soon.

the cellar? what alternate reality do you live in?

 

[daqman]

the cellar? what alternate reality do you live in?

For some reason I was thinking we finished in 8th place last season. I guess I must be mis-remembering.

 

[Sooner04]

For some reason I was thinking we finished in 8th place last season. I guess I must be mis-remembering.

You weren't too far off. Coming into this season, our cumulative conference record over the last three years was the worst in the league.

We've never finished in the cellar, but that 54-game stretch of conference games placed us last.