March Madness and Covid-19

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steverocks35 said:
So you don't think we should develop a vaccine for a disease that has already killed, as of today, 76,000 Americans, at least, and counting? That's just plain nuts.

Vaccines should not be a choice because what you are doing is risking the health of others because of your conspiracy theories about vaccines.

And the "fetal tissue" thing is a red herring. They use cell lines that originated from fetal tissue to make some vaccines, but those cell lines are many many many generations removed. These are called immortalized cell lines.
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I’m fine with developing a Covid vaccine. I’m not for doomsday predictions that scare the hell out of people. I’m not for shutting down an entire nation’s economy when 52% of the deaths are confined to three states. And now that we know kids 18 and under are relatively safe from this virus, I’m not sure it was wise to close our schools.

I realize most of what I’m saying no one knew the answer to a little over two months ago. I will also concede that the preventative health measures, while a little too slow perhaps, were steps that no doubt saved countless lives. Still, I think even you will admit that this virus—while bad enough in some areas and worse in others—is not the apocalyptic pandemic you thought it would be. If (more likely when) there is a second wave of infections, I think we’ll be better prepared.
 
You're nuts if you don't get a flu shot and you will be INSANE/STUPID if you don't get a SARS-Cov-2 vaccine when/if it is available.
 
You know what, one of my real fears from covid, is that the next time a pandemic comes around, the world will ignore it b/c of how overreaching the response to covid will prove to be
 
steverocks35 said:
You're nuts if you don't get a flu shot and you will be INSANE/STUPID if you don't get a SARS-Cov-2 vaccine when/if it is available.
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I'd love to hear your reasons for why someone is nuts for not getting the flu shot (assuming one is in good health).

I get it because my work brings in people to administer it to us for free. If I had to pay or drive somewhere to get it, I would probably pass.

It ranges from 20% to 80% effective each year. Average around 40-60%.
 
AdaSooner said:
I’m all for developing a Covid vaccine. I’m not for doomsday predictions that scare the hell out of people. I’m not for shutting down an entire nation’s economy when 52% of the deaths are confined to three states. And now that we know kids 18 and under are relatively safe from this virus, I’m not sure it was wise to close our schools.

I realize most of what I’m saying no one knew the answer to a little over two months. I will also concede that the preventative health measures, while a little too slow perhaps, were steps that no doubt saved countless lives. Still, I think even you will admit that this virus—while bad enough in some areas and worse in others—is not the apocalyptic pandemic you thought it would be. If (more likely when) there is a second wave of infections, I think we’ll be better prepared.
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We are still in the middle of it, we have increased by 3,000 deaths since yesterday, we will be at 80,000 deaths by the middle of the weekend. Cases are decreasing in New York and the surrounding states but increasing everywhere else. We have emerging hotspots in places like Iowa and Georgia and it's only going to get worse as we "open up." Letting kids go to school in the middle of this would be crazy because it's not about them, it's about all the people they might infect. If this follows the pattern of the 1918 pandemic the second wave will be worse than the first. And I don't doubt it since it seems like we have lost the will or the patience to do what is working.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
I'd love to hear your reasons for why someone is nuts for not getting the flu shot (assuming one is in good health).

I get it because my work brings in people to administer it to us for free. If I had to pay or drive somewhere to get it, I would probably pass.

It ranges from 20% to 80% effective each year. Average around 40-60%.
Click to expand...

For most people, flu shots are either very inexpensive or free. And the vaccine itself, on top of helping you not get sick, plays a crucial role in the healthcare system every year.

Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2017-2018, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 6.2 million influenza illnesses, 3.2 million influenza-associated medical visits, 91,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 5,700 influenza-associated deaths.

During seasons when the flu vaccine viruses are similar to circulating flu viruses, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent.

A 2014 study showed that flu vaccine reduced children’s risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.

On top of all that... not getting a flu vaccine means that you are more likely to get the flu (by your own admission), which means you are more likely to spread flu to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can.... you get the picture. This "no big deal, I won't drive to CVS for a free shot, im ok" attitude of yours could be described as selfish.
 
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AdaSooner said:
I’m fine with developing a Covid vaccine. I’m not for doomsday predictions that scare the hell out of people. I’m not for shutting down an entire nation’s economy when 52% of the deaths are confined to three states. And now that we know kids 18 and under are relatively safe from this virus, I’m not sure it was wise to close our schools.

I realize most of what I’m saying no one knew the answer to a little over two months ago. I will also concede that the preventative health measures, while a little too slow perhaps, were steps that no doubt saved countless lives. Still, I think even you will admit that this virus—while bad enough in some areas and worse in others—is not the apocalyptic pandemic you thought it would be. If (more likely when) there is a second wave of infections, I think we’ll be better prepared.
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Ada, I agree with most of what you write. But there are some doctors(idiots, of course) that say sheltering in place and keeping ourselves indoors is the WORST thing we could have done. Keeping our immune systems from being exposed to ANYTHING is keeping it from being able to work, to keep effective, to exercise it if you will. Now, as things open, even MORE people are going to get sick from having immune systems that are weaker from not having been exposed to anything.
 
thebigabd said:
For most people, flu shots are either very inexpensive or free. And the vaccine itself, on top of helping you not get sick, plays a crucial role in the healthcare system every year.

Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2017-2018, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 6.2 million influenza illnesses, 3.2 million influenza-associated medical visits, 91,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 5,700 influenza-associated deaths.

During seasons when the flu vaccine viruses are similar to circulating flu viruses, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent.

A 2014 study showed that flu vaccine reduced children’s risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.

On top of all that... not getting a flu vaccine means that you are more likely to get the flu (by your own admission), which means you are more likely to spread flu to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can.... you get the picture. This "no big deal, I won't drive to CVS for a free shot, im ok" attitude of yours could be described as selfish.
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Hell, we have free drive-thru flu shot clinics every year at the park around Halloween called "Boo on the flu" lol
 
Bottom line is, nobody knows what has actually flattened the curve. For all we know it could be herd immunity running it's course from cases that have come and gone from last year. The fact is, nobody knows for sure.
 
Stikboy said:
Ada, I agree with most of what you write. But there are some doctors(idiots, of course) that say sheltering in place and keeping ourselves indoors is the WORST thing we could have done. Keeping our immune systems from being exposed to ANYTHING is keeping it from being able to work, to keep effective, to exercise it if you will. Now, as things open, even MORE people are going to get sick from having immune systems that are weaker from not having been exposed to anything.
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66% of the hospitalizations in NY were people quarantining. Steve can call me names, I don't care. I've never had a flu shot and never had the flu.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
You can achieve herd immunity two ways...vaccines or the population getting exposed to it.

IMO, the risk with vaccines is taking away liberties and small risk of reaction to the vaccine. The risk with no vaccine is young people and those that can't get a vaccine.

I think we don't have enough info on this virus to see the best course of action.
If the death rate is really 5-10%, I would not be opposed to mandatory vaccines for the common good.

If it is under 1%, and the data continues to say that young children are not really affected by it, then I don't think it should be mandatory.

There is study after study coming out saying that there are a very large percentage of people that never have symptoms. This could reduce the death rate down to under 1% and possibly even lower than the flu. And I don't like the risk of rushing a vaccine that might have unwanted consequences.
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Yes, we can reach herd immunity with either a vaccine or sufficient (60-80%) numbers in the population getting the disease and developing immunity. The safest way is a vaccine, yet you argue against it. You are advocating for everyone to get sick and let it run it’s course and develop immunity. Unfortunately, that means a lot of people will die. If we have a vaccine and everyone gets it, that means we develop herd immunity without all of those people dying. Yes, vaccines have some risk, but it’s incredibly small and a hell of a lot safer than getting the disease.

I have been very vocal about opening back up and getting people back to work. I think we can develop plans to get people working again while practicing social distancing and common sense to mitigate the spread of the disease. However, if we get a working vaccine it would be astronomically stupid not to get it. Those stupid people can feel free to be deported to a deserted island where they will die out or be forced quarantined until the disease disappears.

You asked earlier if you dont get the vaccine what’s the harm to others. The harm is the disease spreading and killing other people. So, yes, you not getting a vaccine puts other people at risk.
 
mict085 said:
Yes, we can reach herd immunity with either a vaccine or sufficient (60-80%) numbers in the population getting the disease and developing immunity. The safest way is a vaccine, yet you argue against it. You are advocating for everyone to get sick and let it run it’s course and develop immunity. Unfortunately, that means a lot of people will die. If we have a vaccine and everyone gets it, that means we develop herd immunity without all of those people dying. Yes, vaccines have some risk, but it’s incredibly small and a hell of a lot safer than getting the disease.

I have been very vocal about opening back up and getting people back to work. I think we can develop plans to get people working again while practicing social distancing and common sense to mitigate the spread of the disease. However, if we get a working vaccine it would be astronomically stupid not to get it. Those stupid people can feel free to be deported to a deserted island where they will die out or be forced quarantined until the disease disappears.

You asked earlier if you dont get the vaccine what’s the harm to others. The harm is the disease spreading and killing other people. So, yes, you not getting a vaccine puts other people at risk.
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Excellent post, and I agree 100%
 
thebigabd said:
For most people, flu shots are either very inexpensive or free. And the vaccine itself, on top of helping you not get sick, plays a crucial role in the healthcare system every year.

Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2017-2018, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 6.2 million influenza illnesses, 3.2 million influenza-associated medical visits, 91,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 5,700 influenza-associated deaths.

During seasons when the flu vaccine viruses are similar to circulating flu viruses, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent.

A 2014 study showed that flu vaccine reduced children’s risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.

On top of all that... not getting a flu vaccine means that you are more likely to get the flu (by your own admission), which means you are more likely to spread flu to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can then spread it to someone else, who can.... you get the picture. This "no big deal, I won't drive to CVS for a free shot, im ok" attitude of yours could be described as selfish.
Click to expand...

We are all selfish in some ways, I'll admit that. And you make some good points.
 
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