March Madness and Covid-19

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I think most of the states are guilty of this as well... but Trump was really guiding the states. He said that much. He said he had absolute authority, and that they had to re-open on his timeline.

..

I missed this the first time.

I'm confused on your and Steve's position. Trump is criticized for letting governors decide and then he really didn't let governors decide? which is it?
 
We are going to get to 150,000 dead soon and Trump gave a speech on shower heads today.

He doesn't need to stand up there everyday and tell the Nation to social distance, wash their hands, and wear masks. At some point, if people are even listening, they'd stop. We get it. Everybody knows. His job as President isn't to ONLY address the one big issue (CV), while not continuing to speak on other things (even if not important) and perform his other functions.

I'm sure he took a crap today too. Should he not have done that?
 
He doesn't need to stand up there everyday and tell the Nation to social distance, wash their hands, and wear masks. At some point, if people are even listening, they'd stop. We get it. Everybody knows. His job as President isn't to ONLY address the one big issue (CV), while not continuing to speak on other things (even if not important) and perform his other functions.

I'm sure he took a crap today too. Should he not have done that?


Was it wrong to flush, though, for he could have conserved water.
 
I partly agree with that... I just think the GOP political game on this was the biggest problem. They were pretty much only thinking about the economy during an election year instead of public health and safety.

Kevin Stitt telling people to go out... Devin Nunes, same thing... Donald Trump was slow to react in a meaningful way, played politics, thought it was another communist attempt to oust him, kept on with his rallies and downplaying the virus. Fox News telling people to behave like normal, fly on planes, etc. Part of that is stupidity, but I think more of it was trying to protect the economy. They gambled, and lost. Like any gamble, it could have won. The virus could have magically disappeared in April like Trump said, and economic damage would have been limited. That was the goal, to protect the economy. But the dealer laid down blackjack, and now 140,000 people are dead and we are looking at a recession.

I think most of the states are guilty of this as well... but Trump was really guiding the states. He said that much. He said he had absolute authority, and that they had to re-open on his timeline.

If you want to vote out all the governors, along with Trump, for their failed response on this, I am fine with that. If we have 50 new governors in a few years, fine, I don't care. There are only 11 elections for governors in 2020.

A short-term economic win was their initial goal.... from both the Trump administration and in state capitols. I don't know how it could be viewed any other way.

When you live in a country like ours, I think we can all acknowledge that absolutely nothing is more important than commerce. Look what happened when it was disrupted for 45 days, it was on its knees. The fed is pumping billions of dollars into the economy (about $150 billion so far) trying to keep it propped up. They have a worst-case scenario of pumping $2.3 trillion of public money into the economy to prevent a crash. That's not free market capitalism, because it doesn't exist. Every time we have a market failure (for whatever reason), we have to step in with public money to prop it back up.

I think the priority was pretty clear...

This is a decent take ABD....I agree with some of it. I think economic fear (how quickly our markets collapsed, job losses, etc.) definitely played a role in the attempts to restart the opening. That and so many parts of the country (outside of the northeast) were only experiencing a nominal effect of the virus at the time. Also, on the surface, lockdowns didn't appear to really have much of an effect on the spread nor the deaths in March, April, and into May. In some areas, lockdowns/shelter in place only delayed the inevitable.

I will disagree that opening up is the primary reason that we are seeing increases in the last week (at least in Texas)....yes I disagree with Fauci on this. Some states began opening up over 2 months ago. Additionally, states like Colorado (who opened up at the same time as Georgia btw) amongst others haven't seen the type of increases that you are seeing in other states. Why is that? Also, states like California (who never really opened up much, at least in their large metro areas) still are experiencing spikes in their larger locales. I just heard on the radio that over 50% of the positive cases in LA county were from the age group of 18-40....typically the younger, "care-free" group.

As for what Trump should or shouldn't have done and when, it's difficult to say because there are so many moving pieces to this as well as different situations in different regions. Yes, he made mistakes and was too indecisive at certain points in time. I do think he should've looked into the camera at least a month ago and pleaded with/strongly urged the American people to wear a mask. And he should have been wearing a mask to set an example. I don't know who much of an effect it would have had though. We can argue about mandating this or that, but ultimately, people have to take responsibility for themselves and those they come in contact with....and I think most people have. But those folks that haven't done this in the inner cities (and other random areas) where we are seeing spikes are the problem. Yet I don't think putting a gun to their head (mandating) would change much either.

In the end, I believe the reasons are complex why we are seeing what we are seeing right now. Thank God treatments are getting better everyday....which will save lives. Again, I think this thing is here for the long haul and in some ways, we as a society are going to need to learn how to adapt and live with this virus without too much of a damaging effect on our economy. It's a fine line.
 
I am not sure if I can open Russian propaganda news sites at work. Might be banned by IT.


It shows charts of the reproduction rate of the virus. We won't tell on you if you open the site, but you'll probably tell on yourself.
 
Is that really what you are turning to? That, instead of blaming the President of the United States, who is in charge of the whole thing, our response to the virus, etc.... that you want to blame restaurant owners who are democrats.

I mean, you guys are willing to go to great (and infinite) lengths to not criticize this man.... Why? I don't think i've ever seen you guys attack Trump. Do you think he is right 100% of the time?

Trump supporters on this board, including me, have had plenty to say about his personal behavior and his annoying tweets. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s a PR disaster waiting to happen because his ego will not allow him to listen to good advice sometimes. Biden is more likable on a personal level. But, that doesn’t mean he is the best option we'll have in November.

You seem to think Trump supporters like me are ignoring his faults because we’re not here every day trying to set records with long, fact and opinion-based posts only a few posters will take the time to read. Just when I think you have traveled down every route possible to show how much you hate Donald Trump, you prove me wrong.

On another topic, one that you are not a party to. I’m glad this thread as well as the current events thread are on the off-topic forum. The threads are fine. That is why the Campus Corner forum was added a few years back. The personal attacks are not okay.

If these personal attacks continue, I will do everything in my power to convince BoulderSooner these threads should be closed. There was a time when OUHoops.com was viewed as a safe haven from the usual bickering posters experienced on most fan boards. We may never know how many of our members have decided to move on or stop posting because they don’t like what this website has become.

Please, please stop the personal attacks and insults!
 
Trump supporters on this board, including me, have had plenty to say about his personal behavior and his annoying tweets. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s a PR disaster waiting to happen because his ego will not allow him to listen to good advice sometimes. Biden is more likable on a personal level. But, that doesn’t mean he is the best option we'll have in November.

You seem to think Trump supporters like me are ignoring his faults because we’re not here every day trying to set records with long, fact and opinion-based posts only a few posters will take the time to read. Just when I think you have traveled down every route possible to show how much you hate Donald Trump, you prove me wrong.

On another topic, one that you are not a party to. I’m glad this thread as well as the current events thread are on the off-topic forum. The threads are fine. That is why the Campus Corner forum was added a few years back. The personal attacks are not okay.

If these personal attacks continue, I will do everything in my power to convince BoulderSooner these threads should be closed. There was a time when OUHoops.com was viewed as a safe haven from the usual bickering posters experienced on most fan boards. We may never know how many of our members have decided to move on or stop posting because they don’t like what this website has become.

Please, please stop the personal attacks and insults!

Are you referring to me on personal attacks? I don't believe i've done that.
 
Trump supporters on this board, including me, have had plenty to say about his personal behavior and his annoying tweets. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s a PR disaster waiting to happen because his ego will not allow him to listen to good advice sometimes. Biden is more likable on a personal level. But, that doesn’t mean he is the best option we'll have in November.

You seem to think Trump supporters like me are ignoring his faults because we’re not here every day trying to set records with long, fact and opinion-based posts only a few posters will take the time to read. Just when I think you have traveled down every route possible to show how much you hate Donald Trump, you prove me wrong.

On another topic, one that you are not a party to. I’m glad this thread as well as the current events thread are on the off-topic forum. The threads are fine. That is why the Campus Corner forum was added a few years back. The personal attacks are not okay.

If these personal attacks continue, I will do everything in my power to convince BoulderSooner these threads should be closed. There was a time when OUHoops.com was viewed as a safe haven from the usual bickering posters experienced on most fan boards. We may never know how many of our members have decided to move on or stop posting because they don’t like what this website has become.

Please, please stop the personal attacks and insults!


I apologize.
 
Trump supporters on this board, including me, have had plenty to say about his personal behavior and his annoying tweets. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s a PR disaster waiting to happen because his ego will not allow him to listen to good advice sometimes. Biden is more likable on a personal level. But, that doesn’t mean he is the best option we'll have in November.

You seem to think Trump supporters like me are ignoring his faults because we’re not here every day trying to set records with long, fact and opinion-based posts only a few posters will take the time to read. Just when I think you have traveled down every route possible to show how much you hate Donald Trump, you prove me wrong.

On another topic, one that you are not a party to. I’m glad this thread as well as the current events thread are on the off-topic forum. The threads are fine. That is why the Campus Corner forum was added a few years back. The personal attacks are not okay.

If these personal attacks continue, I will do everything in my power to convince BoulderSooner these threads should be closed. There was a time when OUHoops.com was viewed as a safe haven from the usual bickering posters experienced on most fan boards. We may never know how many of our members have decided to move on or stop posting because they don’t like what this website has become.

Please, please stop the personal attacks and insults!

Great post Ada. People are passionate about their worldview, but it can get out of hand at times.
 
I’ve been hearing about Astra-Zeneca as a vaccine possibility. Anybody knIs anything about this?
 
This is a decent take ABD....I agree with some of it. I think economic fear (how quickly our markets collapsed, job losses, etc.) definitely played a role in the attempts to restart the opening. That and so many parts of the country (outside of the northeast) were only experiencing a nominal effect of the virus at the time. Also, on the surface, lockdowns didn't appear to really have much of an effect on the spread nor the deaths in March, April, and into May. In some areas, lockdowns/shelter in place only delayed the inevitable.

Our lock-downs were HIGHLY ineffective... the point of the lock-down is for the virus to stop spreading enough so you can find out who has it, then start doing better testing and tracing it. None of that happened. We started testing a TON, but the tests themselves had little value. People were waiting 5 days, 9 days, 14 days, or longer to get test results. National average is still 5. At this point I have no doubt you all know people getting tested. 3 days is about best case scenario. Employers are requiring workers to take PERSONAL TIME to get tested while at the same time not wanting anyone to bring the virus into the workplace, so people are getting a test and going about their lives and spreading it around while they wait 5 days.

Politicians keep boasting about the number of tests, but if you take forever to get people results they have already spread it to others, who already spread it to others, etc. It's a total failure in technology and in quarantine procedures.

In the end, I believe the reasons are complex why we are seeing what we are seeing right now. Thank God treatments are getting better everyday....which will save lives. Again, I think this thing is here for the long haul and in some ways, we as a society are going to need to learn how to adapt and live with this virus without too much of a damaging effect on our economy. It's a fine line.

Trump is a buffoon, but at the end of the day the states didn't do the right thing either for the same reason, which was a gamble to protect the economy. They rolled the dice, and didn't win, that's all this is. All the states are just as much in on it as Trump/Pence.

All the governors know the economic situation as well, and it's the part that people aren't talking enough about... The virus has the potential to literally kill our economy. With a half-ass shutdown (still able to go to stores, order food from restaurants, don't have to wear a mask, lots of people still went to work, etc) and disrupted commerce, not even close to fully shut off, the economy had a gun to its head with a bullet in the chamber. 45, 50 days. Boom, it's done. Market dropped 40%, including some huge plunges.... Millions of people laid off and on unemployment... and John Q. Public opening up the checkbook to bail out the system again.

Whether you are Gavin Newsome, Greg Abbott, Ron DeSantis, or Andrew Cuomo, you have the same reality. Get back to work, and more important, GET BACK TO BUYING THINGS, or you are in a gigantic world of sh!t in a hurry.

That's what the school debate is really about.... no school = mass economic problems because the parents can't work, money gets tight, they can't buy things, etc. If the decisions was purely about safety, it's an easy decision, but it's not. It's about commerce.
 
Our lock-downs were HIGHLY ineffective... the point of the lock-down is for the virus to stop spreading enough so you can find out who has it, then start doing better testing and tracing it. None of that happened. We started testing a TON, but the tests themselves had little value. People were waiting 5 days, 9 days, 14 days, or longer to get test results. National average is still 5. At this point I have no doubt you all know people getting tested. 3 days is about best case scenario. Employers are requiring workers to take PERSONAL TIME to get tested while at the same time not wanting anyone to bring the virus into the workplace, so people are getting a test and going about their lives and spreading it around while they wait 5 days.
plenty of companies are letting employees test without taking personal time.
Politicians keep boasting about the number of tests, but if you take forever to get people results they have already spread it to others, who already spread it to others, etc. It's a total failure in technology and in quarantine procedures.
so do you think we should stop wasting time and not test? You almost sound like Trump. It isn't governments fault that the turn around time is what it is.



Trump is a buffoon, but at the end of the day the states didn't do the right thing either for the same reason, which was a gamble to protect the economy. They rolled the dice, and didn't win, that's all this is. All the states are just as much in on it as Trump/Pence.
sorry abd but everything up to this point that you have mentioned, the state had no control on. So I'm not sure what they could have done better.


All the governors know the economic situation as well, and it's the part that people aren't talking enough about... The virus has the potential to literally kill our economy. With a half-ass shutdown (still able to go to stores, order food from restaurants, don't have to wear a mask, lots of people still went to work, etc) and disrupted commerce, not even close to fully shut off, the economy had a gun to its head with a bullet in the chamber. 45, 50 days. Boom, it's done. Market dropped 40%, including some huge plunges.... Millions of people laid off and on unemployment... and John Q. Public opening up the checkbook to bail out the system again.
this is a product of fear mongering. this virus won't kill the economy. people just need to be smart and things can keep running while we maintain.

Whether you are Gavin Newsome, Greg Abbott, Ron DeSantis, or Andrew Cuomo, you have the same reality. Get back to work, and more important, GET BACK TO BUYING THINGS, or you are in a gigantic world of sh!t in a hurry.

That's what the school debate is really about.... no school = mass economic problems because the parents can't work, money gets tight, they can't buy things, etc. If the decisions was purely about safety, it's an easy decision, but it's not. It's about commerce.
you seem all over the place...i'm not even sure what your position is anymore
 
plenty of companies are letting employees test without taking personal time.

Plenty of companies are not letting employees test and wait 5+ days for their results with pay.

so do you think we should stop wasting time and not test? You almost sound like Trump. It isn't governments fault that the turn around time is what it is.

I said it was a failure in technology. I didn't say it was the governments fault. But this clearly isn't working. Do you think its working? They need to mass produce better tests, shorter wait times, etc. Trust me man, I was out there. You can't get them.

this is a product of fear mongering. this virus won't kill the economy. people just need to be smart and things can keep running while we maintain.

It's not a product of fear-mongering at all... it's what happened, and what will happen... We did a half-ass shut down for 45 days and the market dropped 40% and 35 million people lost their jobs. That's not fear mongering, that's what happened. It's why they can't shutdown again. It's why they can't close schools.

you seem all over the place...i'm not even sure what your position is anymore

To be honest with you, my position has changed a little lately as I learned more and accepted the reality of our situation.... Mistakes have been made, but ultimately it's the protection of the economy that is driving all decisions, regardless of political party. Trump is an idiot and made mistakes and has destroyed public confidence in their ability to handle it, but the public is demanding something that this government cant give. The government can't say "I am sorry, some of you guys are gonna die for the economy", but that's our reality until a vaccine or valid treatment is available.

But like I told Steve, the Governors are just as much in on it because they know what they have to do as well.... protect the economy and limit the deaths, in that order.

It was a temporary concession to try the shutdown gamble, but it won't happen again. I am convinced of that. I may be eating those words soon, but I just don't think they are going to mess with it again.
 
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Plenty of companies are not letting employees test and wait 5+ days for their results with pay.



I said it was a failure in technology. I didn't say it was the governments fault. But this clearly isn't working. Do you think its working? They need to mass produce better tests, shorter wait times, etc. Trust me man, I was out there. You can't get them.



It's not a product of fear-mongering at all... it's what happened, and what will happen... We did a half-ass shut down for 45 days and the market dropped 40% and 35 million people lost their jobs. That's not fear mongering, that's what happened. It's why they can't shutdown again. It's why they can't close schools.



To be honest with you, my position has changed a little lately as I learned more and accepted the reality of our situation.... Mistakes have been made, but ultimately it's the protection of the economy that is driving all decisions, regardless of political party. Trump is an idiot and made mistakes and has destroyed public confidence in their ability to handle it, but the public is demanding something that this government cant give. The government can't say "I am sorry, some of you guys are gonna die for the economy", but that's our reality.

But like I told Steve, the Governors are just as much in on it because they know what they have to do as well.... protect the economy and limit the deaths, in that order.

It was a temporary concession to try the shutdown gamble, but it won't happen again. I am convinced of that. I may be eating those words soon, but I just don't think they are going to mess with it again.

Our in-house tests take about one hour to complete. The problem is that we don't have an unlimited supply, so those are reserved for potential inpatients and pre-ops and a few other special cases. All other tests we have been sending to the VA laboratory in Palo Alto, but the turnaround times there have been growing longer. The latest turnaround time is approaching 7 days. I called the lab manager in Palo Alto and he said they are receiving thousands and thousands of specimens and it creates a tremendous backlog. This is not a technical issue, it's a supply issue. If we could get a reliable large supply of test kits we (and other labs I assume) could guarantee same-day results, but it's not possible. Now, is there a remedy for this? Yes, the president could invoke the defense production act and have manufacturers prioritize covid-19 test kits over other low priority things, but that has not happened.
 
To be honest with you, my position has changed a little lately as I learned more and accepted the reality of our situation.... Mistakes have been made, but ultimately it's the protection of the economy that is driving all decisions, regardless of political party. Trump is an idiot and made mistakes and has destroyed public confidence in their ability to handle it, but the public is demanding something that this government cant give. The government can't say "I am sorry, some of you guys are gonna die for the economy", but that's our reality until a vaccine or valid treatment is available.

There are no substitutes.
 
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