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[steverocks35]

Yes, what an outstandingly constructed roster

 

[jaymOU]

Lol ok

Go back and read the board. People were elated with the job moser did assembling a roster. People were panicking about the state of the roster when moser took over.

That’s all I’m saying. He has done a great job recruiting. He’s done imo a great job in the portal.

Anyone criticizing his portal recruiting is looking at thing unfairly and with hindsight.

But but but ksu and isu!

Why should he not be measured against ISU and KSU? If he had done a "great" job in the portal and in recruiting - then is he terrible as a coach?

I want him to be the guy, but his offense, which allegedly creates great looks, has been a disaster in late game situations. If you are going to play his style your execution should be better at the end of games, rather than worse.

I just don't see a way forward with him at this point.

I'd agree, the Groves and GS / Joe Bam, looked like great portal additions, but they have been far less than what most of us anticipated. That on Porter or the players - I have no idea, but the real question is what will it take to fix it?

I just don't see how next year's team gets significantly better without a major influx of portal talent and given his track record of using / developing / incorporating portal players, I just don't see how this gets better even next year.

Again, help me believe.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Why should he not be measured against ISU and KSU? If he had done a "great" job in the portal and in recruiting - then is he terrible as a coach?

B/c i believe ksu and isu are outliers. For every quick turnaround like them, there are 10 times it didn't work

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Yes, what an outstandingly constructed roster

sigh. Atleast try to comprehend what I was saying, it isn't difficult. Or not, I don't care.

 

[sdcloud9]

B/c i believe ksu and isu are outliers. For every quick turnaround like them, there are 10 times it didn't work

They may be outliers but it looks worse when KSU and ISU's turnarounds have been at warp speed and OU looks to be mired in quicksand with seemingly little hope.

I'm pretty optimistic but the program looks to have regressed in a big way. It's a tough league but OU has not taken advantage of their opportunities to win games.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I'm pretty optimistic but the program looks to have regressed in a big way.

In a big way? I don't know about that. Its not like we were tearing it up since Buddy left. We are one superstar away from being the same team we've been for the past 6-7 years

 

[allday92]

In a big way? I don't know about that. Its not like we were tearing it up since Buddy left. We are one superstar away from being the same team we've been for the past 6-7 years

This is spot on. It's been a slow decline to this point ever since the final four run

 

[WichitaSooner]

This is spot on. It's been a slow decline to this point ever since the final four run

Well, let’s see. Four straight tourney appearances, including two years where we won a game. Moser is hired, and it’s soon to be consecutive years without a berth and this season is clearly heading to a below .500 record, likely well below.

Sure, you can say a couple years in our league are outliers in how fast they turned things around. That ignores the fact that Moser didn’t need to turn things around. We weren’t rebuilding like most teams are when they bring in a new coach. I’d love to see the people who think he needs more time to show me examples of coaches who stepped into a job at a program that always made the tourney, wasn’t beset by scandal or culture issues, came in and oversaw a significant downturn in their first two years, but ultimately proved to be the right man for the job. Some of you act as if he inherited the Nebraska program or something.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

That ignores the fact that Moser didn’t need to turn things around. We weren’t rebuilding like most teams are when they bring in a new coach.

I disagree with this (surprising I know). This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.

I’d love to see the people who think he needs more time to show me examples of coaches who stepped into a job at a program that always made the tourney, wasn’t beset by scandal or culture issues, came in and oversaw a significant downturn in their first two years, but ultimately proved to be the right man for the job. Some of you act as if he inherited the Nebraska program or something.

I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town

 

[WichitaSooner]

I disagree with this. This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.



I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town

We clearly were down relative to the FF squad, I will absolutely agree with you there. But I don't think we were trending down by the end. Things had more or less stabilized and we had settled into being a program that was going to make the field but not likely do a ton of damage. I wasn't thrilled with that, but the reason I didn't agree with people who wanted Joe C to push Lon out the door is because I felt we were more likely to regress than improve if that happened. And so far, unfortunately, that's what happened.

I agree that we lost some very good players when Lon left. But I think that's just the norm now in college basketball. As a coach, you have to be able to deal with that and replenish the roster at a high level, quickly. That holds true even if there isn't a coaching change, as Moser saw this year when he lost Mo and Harkless. I am still very happy Harkless left (check out his shooting numbers, yikes), but it just goes to show that there will always be roster turnover, and good coaches deal with that without missing a beat.

As much as you and I disagree, I think it's realistic to say that next year should be his final chance. I wouldn't be at all upset if he is gone after this season, but it would be reasonable to give him one more shot. I just worry that we may lose some of the few good pieces we have on the current roster, because I think there is a real chance we end up only winning a couple more games. If that happens, I expect lots of guys to look for greener pastures. We can't afford to lose Los, among others.

 

[skyvue]

I disagree with this (surprising I know). This roster was not in good shape when PM took the job. I think it was pretty clear we were on a downward trend the last 5 years of LK as well.

Players (key pieces) that left after LK's final year:Harmon, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Kuath (this alone would be a salty lineup and likely easily beat this year's team head to head)

Players that Returned (key pieces): J HIll, Harkless, Umoja

I think you are severally devaluing the pieces that left.
Yes, the 3 that returned were starters and good players. But you have to fill out the roster.



I'd give him next year to show vast improvement. If he doesn't I'd be fine with moving on.

But if you put anyone of those players that left on last year's team or this year's team, we likely have the same record we did Lon's last 5 years in town

You're countering your own point. You're saying the program was on a downturn but then you say any one of five players that were on the team but left could have made the difference if they'd stayed.

I'll admit it's a very tricky question, but when any coaching change occurs, I find it difficult to decide whether the incoming coach is in even some small part to blame when players depart. We expect a coach to be able to recruit talent from the high school ranks and (now) to find some strong players in the portal; is it unreasonable to also judge whether he was able to retain talent that was already on campus?

To his credit, Coach Moser convinced Noland and Cortes (two guys you didn't mention) to stick to their commitments and Hill, Harkless and Gibson, too (though only for a year for two of them), but does it reflect well on him that he couldn't convince even one of those four talented guys you mentioned (I don't count Reaves--he had his sights set on the NBA) to stay? I can argue both sides of the question and of course we don't know how those conversations went, but it is frustrating when a coaching hire doesn't inspire key players who are already on campus.

 

[BCSooners]

Talking about efficient FG% and all that is great, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your offense is efficient. You have to look at turnovers, 2nd chance points, free throws, etc., so I like to look at points per possession. OU is ranked 155th in that regard because we shoot less shots than the opponents because of those things. OU averages 3 more turnovers than their opponents and gives up 2 more offensive rebounds per game, in conference they have 4 more turnovers and give up 3 more offensive rebounds per game.

I think Moser should be given until next year, but if he doesn't turn this season around and/or have a good season next year then I think he should be on his way out.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Talking about efficient FG% and all that is great, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your offense is efficient. You have to look at turnovers, 2nd chance points, free throws, etc., so I like to look at points per possession. OU is ranked 155th in that regard because we shoot less shots than the opponents because of those things. OU averages 3 more turnovers than their opponents and gives up 2 more offensive rebounds per game, in conference they have 4 more turnovers and give up 3 more offensive rebounds per game.

I think Moser should be given until next year, but if he doesn't turn this season around and/or have a good season next year then I think he should be on his way out.

Thanks for posting these numbers because I have been too lazy to look them up. You are exactly right -- efficient FG% is helpful, but it's one piece of a much larger puzzle. To me, points per possession is the most important and best number in assessing an offense because it paints the full picture. You can shoot efficiently, but if you don't shot often because of turnovers and rebounding issues, that doesn't get you very far.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You're countering your own point. You're saying the program was on a downturn but then you say any one of five players that were on the team but left could have made the difference if they'd stayed.

I'll admit it's a very tricky question, but when any coaching change occurs, I find it difficult to decide whether the incoming coach is in even some small part to blame when players depart. We expect a coach to be able to recruit talent from the high school ranks and (now) to find some strong players in the portal; is it unreasonable to also judge whether he was able to retain talent that was already on campus?

To his credit, Coach Moser convinced Noland and Cortes (two guys you didn't mention) to stick to their commitments and Hill, Harkless and Gibson, too (though only for a year for two of them), but does it reflect well on him that he couldn't convince even one of those four talented guys you mentioned (I don't count Reaves--he had his sights set on the NBA) to stay? I can argue both sides of the question and of course we don't know how those conversations went, but it is frustrating when a coaching hire doesn't inspire key players who are already on campus.

I understand but I truly think we are a gibson or reaves or maybe even harmon away from atleast 2 more wins and completely different look at the team. I don't necessarily disagree with you but the difference between status quo under LK and what we are this year is really one player. TO me that isn't evidence that the program is in trouble. I don't think we are far off from where we were. I don't think PM is doing any worse that LK would have with this roster.
LK had an excellent roster in his final year and won 16 games. I'd kill to have a roster of Harmon, Umoja, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Harkless, and JHill with PM. How that team didn't win the conference i have no idea.

 

[NickZepp]

umm except for recruiting .. and very very efficient offense

Recruiting hasn't shown up on the court yet. So I'm not sure he's been recruiting well. Just because they have stars by their name doesn't mean it translates on the court. Efficiency has been streaky under Moser. Like we see it for a few games then it disappears for several games. We don't have the athletes to compete in the Big 12. Maybe a lot of this is Kruger's fault for not getting the athletes at the end of his tenure but the guys we've had coming in aren't athletic enough also.

 

[BoulderSooner]

also this all has to be in the context of this years big 12 being a historically great conf

 

[NickZepp]

also this all has to be in the context of this years big 12 being a historically great conf

Eh not really. It's not near as good on top as it has been at other times maybe it's as good top to bottom as it's ever been. But like the early 2000s it was way more talented on top with teams like OU, Texas, Kansas, Missouri then. They would probably run circles with those teams around any of the Big 12 teams today and make most of them look bad.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I understand but I truly think we are a gibson or reaves or maybe even harmon away from atleast 2 more wins and completely different look at the team. I don't necessarily disagree with you but the difference between status quo under LK and what we are this year is really one player. TO me that isn't evidence that the program is in trouble. I don't think we are far off from where we were. I don't think PM is doing any worse that LK would have with this roster.
LK had an excellent roster in his final year and won 16 games. I'd kill to have a roster of Harmon, Umoja, Reaves, Alondes, Manek, Harkless, and JHill with PM. How that team didn't win the conference i have no idea.

Harmon is not close to being as good as Grant, so let's not pretend like he was a stud. Mo was very streaky his first year at OU. Harkless can't shoot or handle. Alondes never met his potential and Lon deserves at least some blame for that. Hill was a second-year guy who didn't yet have an offensive game. Reaves was great and Manek was a good player but often was playing out of position (again, Lon deserves some blame). Had we played a full schedule that year (i.e., no covid), it would have been a 20-win team. Still not great, but solid. But that roster wouldn't win the Big 12 if the season was played a million times with any coach you can choose. I mean, Baylor was one of the better teams in recent memory, won the national title, and would probably have only lost a game or two all season if they didn't get shutdown for three weeks by covid. And KU had three guys (at least) on that team who are either currently in the NBA or will be by next season.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Recruiting hasn't shown up on the court yet. So I'm not sure he's been recruiting well. Just because they have stars by their name doesn't mean it translates on the court. Efficiency has been streaky under Moser. Like we see it for a few games then it disappears for several games. We don't have the athletes to compete in the Big 12. Maybe a lot of this is Kruger's fault for not getting the athletes at the end of his tenure but the guys we've had coming in aren't athletic enough also.

Los and Oweh are big 12 level athletes i think Benny is also but that remains to be seen

the 2 top 100 high schools kids he just signed are both reported to be high level athletes ..

if you want to see the underlying issue of this team it goes back to Lon Kruger recruiting

2019 class Hill very good others gone/bust
Harmon
Iwuakor
Hill

2020 class disaster
phipps
ogarro

2021 class not bad but should not be in the top 6 or 7 rotation
noland
cortes

this didn't set up porter

he is a builder and wants to build with high school kids ..

now is that a "fast fix" no but i believe it will work

 

[WichitaSooner]

Eh not really. It's not near as good on top as it has been at other times maybe it's as good top to bottom as it's ever been. But like the early 2000s it was way more talented on top with teams like OU, Texas, Kansas, Missouri then. They would probably run circles with those teams around any of the Big 12 teams today and make most of them look bad.

Missouri?? And even OU and Texas only had one, maybe two great seasons. What is the obsession with acting like teams from the past are so much better? Why didn't any Big 12 team win a title? And outside KU, why did the league only have two teams make a lone FF if the top of the league was so great?