#23 OU @ UCF 3pm CST on ESPN+

He is absolutely not a troll. Call him a negative nancy or not a “great” fan but don’t insult the guy. He knows way too much about OU basketball to just be a troll.
My critique of WS is a lot tamer than his critique of Moser...so if me calling it like I see it is an insult then what do you call what WS does to the program?
Being a troll doesn't have much to do with the knowledge of a subject. It is the intentions of posts that make one a troll. No OU fan would seriously try to convince others that being in the top 25 doesn't matter. His sole purpose here is to discount Moser and hence OU
 
As for Buddy -- he was a role player as a freshman. We made the tourney. He was better as a sophomore, and really good as a junior. Made the tourney both years and advanced to the Sweet 16 his junior year. He was only a star as a senior.

Buddy wasn't a star as a freshman, but if he was a role player, then everybody on that team was a role player outside of Osby. That is a reasonable argument, as those first teams were only competitive due to Osby, who was brought in by Capel. I do agree that the 10 seeded team that lost to SFA was not based on Buddy's greatness. We can give Lon credit for that. Will you give Moser credit for being in the 10 seed range this year or would you criticize him?

As for Buddy only being a star his senior year -- he was BIG 12 PLAYER OF THE YEAR as a junior. This is such bad take that I can't even be annoyed. It's just funny. Pure absurdity.
 
wanting a championship type program requires the investment of a championship program. We aren’t even in the same stratosphere of the championship programs when it comes to NIL, fan engagement, arena, and the list goes on.

I am hoping Moser gets us to to point that fans begin to support this program like the Kansas, UNC, Duke, Kentucky fans do but we are literally magnitudes lower than those programs in every way, shape, and form.

People need to take a step back and look at where this program is from an investment perspective. We are behind the Texas techs and Baylors let alone the real blue bloods. We have to entice our fans to come to games with $2 beer and popcorn. Texas tech fans drove from west texas and packed our arena a few weeks ago. Something tells me ou fans wouldn’t do the same if we played them in Lubbock this year.
Oh I agree with everything you are saying. But you gotta win first. Making the tournament in years two and three should be the absolute minimum to taking program to championship level.

Are OU fans fickle? Absolutely. Saying otherwise would be just plain wrong. And one of Moser’s best attributes has been getting fans to the games. But there is a trend going where he gets the fan turnout then his team lays an egg. I mean think how much momentum could have been built if they beat Texas in front of such a great crowd? The potential for the program to take the next step is there. The fans will show up, and I believe the investment will come after the wins, not before. It’s challenging forsure but the right guy can do it.

And I’m not completely writing Moser off. If OU makes the tournament this year he absolutely without question gets another year.
 
I don’t think is necessarily fair to say WS would rather see OU lose than see Moser succeed. Unless he’s got like a personal vendetta against the guy. He clearly is not a Moser fan, but there were people calling for Lon’s head the last couple of years too. It happens.

I do think it’s important to point out Lon’s and Moser’s job within the program. I understand metrics matter but I don’t think they paint the whole picture.

Lon’s job was to resuscitate the program after Capel. In reality maybe he did have more talent to work with than we remember, and heck maybe even more talent than Moser. But he still had the challenge of reviving a program on life support. He did that and more. He completed his job. There was no way he was going to be let go after the final four season because only like three years before that no one even thought a final four run was possible. You could definitely make the argument that the program was sliding downwards under the last few years of Lon. Just look at his recruiting lol. But, he had completed his job of bringing it back to relevancy. He retired at the perfect time.

Now you bring in Moser. I’m going to out on a limb and guess that his job was to win championships at OU. I’m going to guess the word “mediocre” was not mentioned in his interview with Joe C. Now obviously that takes time and Moser did not have a lot of talent to work with in year one. Maybe less than Lon did. But it has been proven by multiple programs that a very quick turnaround can happen if you get the right guy in there. The days of taking four or more years to build something are over. And it’s the same thing being said about Venables and the football program. Do we feel like Moser has the program on the right track to championships? That is the question we should be asking ourselves as fans. Because that’s what Moser was brought in to do. Not keep the status quo but make it better. I’m going to guess that is where WS’ frustration stems from because that’s where a lot of fans’ frustration is stemming from. There’s not a feeling of improvement in the program aside from recruiting. But recruiting is half the battle. It feels like the same program for the last five years. But that is not what anyone thought we would be feeling year three of Moser.

I think we ALL want the program to succeed. I don’t think there’s a poster on here who doesn’t want OU to win. WS is just more vocal about his doubts about Moser than others. But I don’t see anything wrong with that because we can all see it to an extent.
Well said, and accurately reflects my feelings. I was in favor of hiring Moser, so certainly not predisposed to "hate" him. I don't know the man at all. I just view him through the lens of what he has/hasn't done from a basketball standpoint at OU, and I don't think it's nearly good enough.
 
wanting a championship type program requires the investment of a championship program. We aren’t even in the same stratosphere of the championship programs when it comes to NIL, fan engagement, arena, and the list goes on.

I am hoping Moser gets us to to point that fans begin to support this program like the Kansas, UNC, Duke, Kentucky fans do but we are literally magnitudes lower than those programs in every way, shape, and form.

People need to take a step back and look at where this program is from an investment perspective. We are behind the Texas techs and Baylors let alone the real blue bloods. We have to entice our fans to come to games with $2 beer and popcorn. Texas tech fans drove from west texas and packed our arena a few weeks ago. Something tells me ou fans wouldn’t do the same if we played them in Lubbock this year.
The crowds have been good this year, but unless the team goes on a tear, that won't continue, and understandably so. Moser has shown a consistent inability to build on success.

That texas game was huge. Not just because it was texas but because we'd followed two losses with two very nice wins and it looked as though we were building some serious steam--arguably for the first time in Moser's tenure. But the team laid an egg that day. Just a dismal showing in front of a packed house and then followed that with another home loss. Then finally a very nice win at KSU, only to be followed by another dismal outing. It's not so much that we lost to UCF--it was a road game, after all, and they are better than they are given credit for by some--but the team was simply not ready to play. That performance tied the texas game, in my view, for our worst outing of the season.

What I ask of any coach is that they get the best out of the players they have, that each team improves as the season progresses (barring extenuating circumstances like a rash of injuries), that each player improves throughout the season and from year to year, that they play solid, relatively mistake-free basketball and compete with heart and hustle every game.

Coach Moser's teams -- including this one -- have not delivered consistently on any of that. I've not given up on this squad, but I'm not very optimistic.

As for the steady stream of digs at Lon's recruiting, OU went to the tourney three out of his last four seasons and won a tourney game in two of the those (and the first-round loss was in OT). The only season of the four they didn't go dancing, they won 19 games. The last two years, they finished at .500 or better in conference. Those four-years, in retrospect, look like glory days compared to the past two years and, I fear, this season, too. As I say, I'm still holding out hope. The Sooner women turned it around after a rough month-long patch; maybe the men will too.
 
The crowds have been good this year, but unless the team goes on a tear, that won't continue, and understandably so. Moser has shown a consistent inability to build on success.

That texas game was huge. Not just because it was texas but because we'd followed two losses with two very nice wins and it looked as though we were building some serious steam--arguably for the first time in Moser's tenure. But the team laid an egg that day. Just a dismal showing in front of a packed house and then followed that with another home loss. Then finally a very nice win at KSU, only to be followed by another dismal outing. It's not so much that we lost to UCF--it was a road game, after all, and they are better than they are given credit for by some--but the team was simply not ready to play. That performance tied the texas game, in my view, for our worst outing of the season.

What I ask of any coach is that they get the best out of the players they have, that each team improves as the season progresses (barring extenuating circumstances like a rash of injuries), that each player improves throughout the season and from year to year, that they play solid, relatively mistake-free basketball and compete with heart and hustle every game.

Coach Moser's teams -- including this one -- have not delivered consistently on any of that. I've not given up on this squad, but I'm not very optimistic.

As for the steady stream of digs at Lon's recruiting, OU went to the tourney three out of his last four seasons and won a tourney game in two of the those (and the first-round loss was in OT). The only season of the four they didn't go dancing, they won 19 games. The last two years, they finished at .500 or better in conference. Those four-years, in retrospect, look like glory days compared to the past two years and, I fear, this season, too. As I say, I'm still holding out hope. The Sooner women turned it around after a rough month-long patch; maybe the men will too.

Imo, it is not fair to compare the last several years of Lon’s tenure to the first few years of Porter’s tenure. I have a previous post showing what Lon did in his first 2.5 years compared to Moser. Lon made 1 NCAA tourney during that time, while moser had better rankings per the metrics. At the end of the day, there was not a significant difference imo. Lon’s teams improved and peaked the following 2 years, but then they hit rock bottom after Buddy graduated. They found a homeostasis as a bubble team thereafter.

Having said that, I am incredibly disappointed with the way ou has played in front of the rare big crowd in Norman(Texas and tech this year, osu last year). That type of poor performance is not something that will beget more large crowds from a fickle fanbase.

This week we have a chance to get 2 big home wins. Ou needs to win both games. I will assess the season at the end of the conference tournament. Moser’s future depends on making the tourney this year. This year is the inflection point imo.
 
The crowds have been good this year, but unless the team goes on a tear, that won't continue, and understandably so. Moser has shown a consistent inability to build on success.

That texas game was huge. Not just because it was texas but because we'd followed two losses with two very nice wins and it looked as though we were building some serious steam--arguably for the first time in Moser's tenure. But the team laid an egg that day. Just a dismal showing in front of a packed house and then followed that with another home loss. Then finally a very nice win at KSU, only to be followed by another dismal outing. It's not so much that we lost to UCF--it was a road game, after all, and they are better than they are given credit for by some--but the team was simply not ready to play. That performance tied the texas game, in my view, for our worst outing of the season.

What I ask of any coach is that they get the best out of the players they have, that each team improves as the season progresses (barring extenuating circumstances like a rash of injuries), that each player improves throughout the season and from year to year, that they play solid, relatively mistake-free basketball and compete with heart and hustle every game.

Coach Moser's teams -- including this one -- have not delivered consistently on any of that. I've not given up on this squad, but I'm not very optimistic.

As for the steady stream of digs at Lon's recruiting, OU went to the tourney three out of his last four seasons and won a tourney game in two of the those (and the first-round loss was in OT). The only season of the four they didn't go dancing, they won 19 games. The last two years, they finished at .500 or better in conference. Those four-years, in retrospect, look like glory days compared to the past two years and, I fear, this season, too. As I say, I'm still holding out hope. The Sooner women turned it around after a rough month-long patch; maybe the men will too.
I agree with this 100%
 
Imo, it is not fair to compare the last several years of Lon’s tenure to the first few years of Porter’s tenure. I have a previous post showing what Lon did in his first 2.5 years compared to Moser. Lon made 1 NCAA tourney during that time, while moser had better rankings per the metrics. At the end of the day, there was not a significant difference imo. Lon’s teams improved and peaked the following 2 years, but then they hit rock bottom after Buddy graduated. They found a homeostasis as a bubble team thereafter.

Having said that, I am incredibly disappointed with the way ou has played in front of the rare big crowd in Norman(Texas and tech this year, osu last year). That type of poor performance is not something that will beget more large crowds from a fickle fanbase.

This week we have a chance to get 2 big home wins. Ou needs to win both games. I will assess the season at the end of the conference tournament. Moser’s future depends on making the tourney this year. This year is the inflection point imo.
I don't bring up Kruger on this board because it's only fair to judge Moser on his own merits. It's others--some of whom were charter members of the Anybody-but-Kruger Club--who keep bringing Kruger up. And when they do, I'm occasionally going to respond.

In his first three seasons, Kruger, having taken over a worse program than he left for Moser, went 15-16 (5-13 in conference) in 2012. In 2013, he went 20-12 (11-7) with a tourney berth, and in 2014, he went 23-10 (12-6) with a tourney berth. That's 58-38 with two NCAA appearances, a winning record in conference and a 7-5 mark against our two biggest rivals.

Moser has gone 19-16 (7-11) in 2022, with a second-round loss at home in the NIT, 15-16 (5-13) in 2023 with no postseason tourney, and 16-6 (4-5) so far this season. Overall, with nine regular-season games remaining, he's 50-38 with no NCAA appearances, 16-29 in conference and 1-9 against our two biggest rivals.

There, per your request: a comparison of the two coaches' first three seasons, with the third season obviously still pending and fingers tightly crossed for the team to have a serious uptick over the past couple of weeks.
 
I don't bring up Kruger on this board because it's only fair to judge Moser on his own merits. It's others--some of whom were charter members of the Anybody-but-Kruger Club--who keep bringing Kruger up. And when they do, I'm occasionally going to respond.

In his first three seasons, Kruger, having taken over a worse program than he left for Moser, went 15-16 (5-13 in conference) in 2012. In 2013, he went 20-12 (11-7) with a tourney berth, and in 2014, he went 23-10 (12-6) with a tourney berth. That's 58-38 with two NCAA appearances, a winning record in conference and a 7-5 mark against our two biggest rivals.

Moser has gone 19-16 (7-11) in 2022, with a second-round loss at home in the NIT, 15-16 (5-13) in 2023 with no postseason tourney, and 16-6 (4-5) so far this season. Overall, with nine regular-season games remaining, he's 50-38 with no NCAA appearances, 16-29 in conference and 1-9 against our two biggest rivals.

There, per your request: a comparison of the two coaches' first three seasons, with the third season obviously still pending and fingers tightly crossed for the team to have a serious uptick over the past couple of weeks.

Being in different eras of NIL and the transfer portal, it's challenging to compare who had an emptier cupboard. Lon's final team certainly was a far better team than Capel's, but the Lon benefited far more from Capel's players. Without Osby, Lon's first team would have been unwatchable, and the following season would have been eliminated from NCAA contention early. The first two years would have looked eerily similar. Moser did inherit some quality role players including Gibson and Hill, but I consider them essentially a wash with guys like Clark and Pledger. Moser's big advantage was the ability to utilize the transfer portal to quickly rebuild a team, which he did not successfully do.

Regardless of blame, Moser's roster was terrible in season one, and having that team on the brink of the NCAAs was a success in my book. They were playing very well at the end of the season, and probably should have in. They won the final 3 games of the regular season, knocked off #3 Baylor in the conference tournament, and then came up 1 point short against #14 Tech. Perhaps it was just a lucky 5 game stretch, but it had me optimistic.

The second season was an unmitigated disaster, and the only truly bad season he has had thus far. If this team collapses and doesn't make the NCAAs this year, it will probably be another disaster, but I'd like to take a wait-and-see approach for that. I'm not exactly pro-Moser, but I do think the jury is still out.

To Lon's credit, he did a great job with his first true recruiting class, and his staff did an amazing job developing Buddy and Cousins. Uzan and Oweh won't be winning POYs like Buddy, but I think they could be an excellent combo to build around, and I hope we get to see this through. It would have been a shame if Lon didn't have Osby those first two years, and our fanbase ran him off before Buddy and Cousins' magical run. You have to give hires time, and one bad season isn't enough to write them off. I refuse to accept this as a bad season...yet.
 
Teddie and have interviewed Jennie B on their podcast. It’s a good listen on how hard it is to hit the ground running in this era of bball.
 
I don't bring up Kruger on this board because it's only fair to judge Moser on his own merits. It's others--some of whom were charter members of the Anybody-but-Kruger Club--who keep bringing Kruger up. And when they do, I'm occasionally going to respond.

In his first three seasons, Kruger, having taken over a worse program than he left for Moser, went 15-16 (5-13 in conference) in 2012. In 2013, he went 20-12 (11-7) with a tourney berth, and in 2014, he went 23-10 (12-6) with a tourney berth. That's 58-38 with two NCAA appearances, a winning record in conference and a 7-5 mark against our two biggest rivals.

Moser has gone 19-16 (7-11) in 2022, with a second-round loss at home in the NIT, 15-16 (5-13) in 2023 with no postseason tourney, and 16-6 (4-5) so far this season. Overall, with nine regular-season games remaining, he's 50-38 with no NCAA appearances, 16-29 in conference and 1-9 against our two biggest rivals.

There, per your request: a comparison of the two coaches' first three seasons, with the third season obviously still pending and fingers tightly crossed for the team to have a serious uptick over the past couple of weeks.

I am far from a Kruger hater. In fact I consistently took up for him when this board was hating on him relentlessly in his last 3-4 seasons.

Like I said in a previous post, Kruger made the tournament and had a better record through his 1st 2.5 seasons at ou. However, there are multiple metrics (kenpom for instance), which suggest Moser’s teams have been better on average. I have maintained that there just isn’t a significant difference between the 2 to this point.

I agree Kruger had a tough gig rebuilding ou. So has Moser, for different reasons. It takes time. Hopefully ou can keep improving under moser.
 
I am far from a Kruger hater. In fact I consistently took up for him when this board was hating on him relentlessly in his last 3-4 seasons.

Like I said in a previous post, Kruger made the tournament and had a better record through his 1st 2.5 seasons at ou. However, there are multiple metrics (kenpom for instance), which suggest Moser’s teams have been better on average. I have maintained that there just isn’t a significant difference between the 2 to this point.

I agree Kruger had a tough gig rebuilding ou. So has Moser, for different reasons. It takes time. Hopefully ou can keep improving under moser.
It doesn't really take time. You can do it in one season with the portal. You can also lose half your players and go the other way in one season.
 
It doesn't really take time. You can do it in one season with the portal. You can also lose half your players and go the other way in one season.

Sure but that requires NIL. We didn’t have any when Moser took over.
 
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