OU @ #6 ISU 7pm CST on ESPN+

[allday92]

Care to explain why?

Mens basketball is more competitive than women’s. It takes far more commitment from the fans/donors to be a top men’s team. The best men’s teams are paying well over $1million per year in NIL alone. They all have good venues full of fans. Ou is not competitive in these factors w the top programs. Until that changes, it is ridiculous to expect us to be better than those programs.

In addition, it's easier to retain players in women's basketball. There is no threat of them turning pro until they're done with their eligibility. The average WNBA salary is a little over $100k, the best women's college players are making more than that in NIL. Caitlin Clark may return another year just because she'll be making way more money in college than she would on her rookie deal.

 

[skyvue]

Mens basketball is more competitive than women’s. It takes far more commitment from the fans/donors to be a top men’s team. The best men’s teams are paying well over $1million per year in NIL alone. They all have good venues full of fans. Ou is not competitive in these factors w the top programs. Until that changes, it is ridiculous to expect us to be better than those programs.

Women's basketball is plenty competitive. The only legitimate factor that sets men's hoops apart is the greater reliance on NIL, and given that, perhaps Coach Moser should spend more time wooing big time donors and less time hanging around frat houses. I understand he can't be directly involved in NIL planning (or perhaps he can--the rules and regulations certainly seem to be fluid) but he could certainly be out there promoting the program to potential donors. And maybe he is--I don't pretend to know for sure. But I've seen no mention of it anywhere and if he had been, I'm confident he'd have made us aware of it (repeatedly). Wichita is right--Jennie just got busy and got things done. No whining about the challenges, no excuses. She just set about making the team better, and that included coaching up the players she inherited. One can see players improving and progressing under her tutelage. So far, it's hard to say the same of Coach Moser.

 

[WichitaSooner]

All of those off-ball actions - screens, cutting, curling are easy to defend if all 5 defenders are inside the arc. And those types of offenses are being phased out from the game. Look at the pro level, offense is being homogenized to spread defenses out, run a high ball screen or some variation of Spain PnR/ Stack PnR/ 5 out drive and kick. There is a good book I'd recommend anyone to read - Spaced Out by Mike Prada. The goal of an efficient offense is to force the defense to guard more of the court and to shoot the majority of their shots at the rim or from 3. 87% of our shots are at the rim or from 3 (46th in the nation and significant improvement from Lon's offenses per ShotQuality). The process is fine behind the offense. If anything, they should probably embrace more variance. Shoot more 3s and embrace being a make or miss team.

Running a style of offense similar to the pros is good for player development and recruiting. If Porter stays, the coaching staff will have their work cut out for them in developing players this offseason. That's why you hire a guy like Paul Jesperson from the Atlanta Hawks.

It’s amazing anyone can argue that our offensive system is a good one. We have multiple examples in our league of what good offense looks like. Watch KU move the ball. Watch BYU actually space the floor and truly give guys the green light. You can argue all you want that a system is good in theory, but if you lack shooters (which we do) and don’t have guys who can beat guys off the dribble and finish (again, us), then it’s not a system you should be running.

We actually finished in the top half of the league in 3 pt percentage last year. That was somewhat misleading based on how Grant shot the first couple months, but still, our shooting was ok. But we still struggled to score. In the offseason, he addressed the lack of athleticism, but didn’t bring in a single good shooter. JM is a volume shooter who clearly is used to having the ball in his hand the entire game, and I’m sure he was able to have some success with his flashy dribbling and step backs against low major competition. That style is killing us in the Big 12.

I fully agree that the sport has evolved to where layups and threes are what you want, with little in between. Yet Moser has put together a roster that lacks finishers AND shooters. Soares and Moore can finish but aren’t good enough handlers to let them create offense. And let’s not forget how invisible Darthard has been other than his short stretch where he shot well for two or three games.

Moser will end up back at the mid major level, hopefully sooner than later. And he will probably have some success there. But he has shown no ability to create an offense that puts the ball in the basket against good teams. We may well end up not scoring 100 points total in our two games this week, and that won’t be remotely surprising. It’s what any OU fan should expect based on the past three seasons.

He is so fortunate that JM made the shot Saturday because otherwise, this would be a full meltdown because we would need to win two of our next three to make the tournament. We look completely outclassed against the good teams on our schedule. I think the progress from last year to this is much smaller than people realize.

 

[skyvue]

In addition, it's easier to retain players in women's basketball. There is no threat of them turning pro until they're done with their eligibility. The average WNBA salary is a little over $100k, the best women's college players are making more than that in NIL. Caitlin Clark may return another year just because she'll be making way more money in college than she would on her rookie deal.

Fair point. Except... how many players has Coach Moser lost to the NBA? That hasn't been an issue. When he starts losing players to the NBA, I'll happily factor that into my assessment of his performance.

 

[makila]

Cool bro!

Cool enough you felt like responding, bro.

 

[TINY]

Women's basketball is plenty competitive. The only legitimate factor that sets men's hoops apart is the greater reliance on NIL, and given that, perhaps Coach Moser should spend more time wooing big time donors and less time hanging around frat houses. I understand he can't be directly involved in NIL planning (or perhaps he can--the rules and regulations certainly seem to be fluid) but he could certainly be out there promoting the program to potential donors. And maybe he is--I don't pretend to know for sure. But I've seen no mention of it anywhere and if he had been, I'm confident he'd have made us aware of it (repeatedly). Wichita is right--Jennie just got busy and got things done. No whining about the challenges, no excuses. She just set about making the team better, and that included coaching up the players she inherited. One can see players improving and progressing under her tutelage. So far, it's hard to say the same of Coach Moser.

Sure, the women’s game is competitive. But it is not as competitive as the men’s game. That doesn’t take anything away from Coach B as she is doing a remarkable job.

Now it’s Moser’s fault that we haven't gotten a new arena built since ~1970? It is his fault that the fans send their donations to the football program rather than the basketball program? It is his fault that the admin spend most of the AD revenues on football? Not Kelvin, nor Lon, nor Capel could gain any traction in the above and none of them had to deal with NIL constraints while at ou either.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Cool enough you felt like responding, bro.

Don't take it personally. It is his sworn duty to monitor content and only allow positive messages through without a citation.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Sure, the women’s game is competitive. But it is not as competitive as the men’s game. That doesn’t take anything away from Coach B as she is doing a remarkable job.

Now it’s Moser’s fault that we haven't gotten a new arena built since ~1970? It is his fault that the fans send their donations to the football program rather than the basketball program? It is his fault that the admin spend most of the AD revenues on football? Not Kelvin, nor Lon, nor Capel could gain any traction in the above and none of them had to deal with NIL constraints while at ou either.

And yet those coaches won, even the awful Capel for two seasons.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Women's basketball is plenty competitive. The only legitimate factor that sets men's hoops apart is the greater reliance on NIL, and given that, perhaps Coach Moser should spend more time wooing big time donors and less time hanging around frat houses. I understand he can't be directly involved in NIL planning (or perhaps he can--the rules and regulations certainly seem to be fluid) but he could certainly be out there promoting the program to potential donors. And maybe he is--I don't pretend to know for sure. But I've seen no mention of it anywhere and if he had been, I'm confident he'd have made us aware of it (repeatedly). Wichita is right--Jennie just got busy and got things done. No whining about the challenges, no excuses. She just set about making the team better, and that included coaching up the players she inherited. One can see players improving and progressing under her tutelage. So far, it's hard to say the same of Coach Moser.

This is all just really really silly.

"No whining about the challenges, no excuses" LOL have you listened to her interviews? She speaks very much like Moser does. I've literally heard her talk about the challenges and how hard it is to coach college athletics right now. She talked about the fine line between winning and losing.

You guys act like Moser doesn't care or spend time coaching and spending time with these kids. This whole "maybe he should be more worried about donors than frat houses" while at the same time complaining about student support or coaching is comical. I guarentee you guys that Moser cares more about results than we do

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It’s amazing anyone can argue that our offensive system is a good one. We have multiple examples in our league of what good offense looks like. Watch KU move the ball. Watch BYU actually space the floor and truly give guys the green light. You can argue all you want that a system is good in theory, but if you lack shooters (which we do) and don’t have guys who can beat guys off the dribble and finish (again, us), then it’s not a system you should be running.

What system would be a good offensive system if you can't shoot or drive?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

And yet those coaches won, even the awful Capel for two seasons.

lol this my be your funniest post yet.

You give PM a trae young or buddy heild or blake griffin,etc and we would be a top 10 team this year

 

[TINY]

And yet those coaches won, even the awful Capel for two seasons.

How is Moser not winning this year w a 19-9 record? What is your standard for winning? Is it to be as good as Kansas every year? If so, then Billy Tubbs is the only good coach Ou has ever had apparently.

 

[skyvue]

Now it’s Moser’s fault that we haven't gotten a new arena built since ~1970? It is his fault that the fans send their donations to the football program rather than the basketball program? It is his fault that the admin spend most of the AD revenues on football? Not Kelvin, nor Lon, nor Capel could gain any traction in the above and none of them had to deal with NIL constraints while at ou either.

I didn't bring any of those things up. I do think some of our fans are far too dependent upon them as excuses. The truth is, Sampson, Kruger and even Capel faced the same challenges you keep bringing up and each enjoyed greater early success than Moser has. As has Coach Baranczyk. I've never once heard her denigrate the LNC or complain about the dominance of football at OU (or about the greater funding men's hoops receives compared to women's--twice as much).

 

[WichitaSooner]

lol this my be your funniest post yet.

You give PM a trae young or buddy heild or blake griffin,etc and we would be a top 10 team this year

You may not realize this, but no one "gave" those players to Lon or Capel. They recruited them. And Buddy was a lower rated recruit than a young guy on our current roster named Cooper. Something tells me if Trae were on this team, Moser would still want to walk it up the floor. Or maybe he would bench him because of his defense.

 

[skyvue]

This is all just really really silly.

"No whining about the challenges, no excuses" LOL have you listened to her interviews? She speaks very much like Moser does. I've literally heard her talk about the challenges and how hard it is to coach college athletics right now. She talked about the fine line between winning and losing.

You guys act like Moser doesn't care or spend time coaching and spending time with these kids. This whole "maybe he should be more worried about donors than frat houses" while at the same time complaining about student support or coaching is comical. I guarentee you guys that Moser cares more about results than we do

No whining about the challenges inherent to OU--the oft-cited terrible arena, the football crazy fans, etc. Moser has whine... er, spoken frequently about the purported challenges coaching at OU presents. I've never heard Coach B. say anything about any of those factors. And yes, I've listened to her interviews. I've watched every single game and always listen to the postgame interviews. If you think Jennie mentions OU-specific challenges as often as Moser does, it's you who hasn't been listening.

I never said Moser doesn't care. What I said was, if NIL is the greatest obstacle he faces in the current environment, then perhaps that should get more of his attention than the frat house visits.

 

[TEvans4Three]

It's pretty simple. They came in at the same time. Both had some talent on campus when they arrived. Coach B managed to keep much of that talent; Coach Moser, less so.

They both had the portal to work with and Jennie's made it work for her. Porter, not so much. Jennie's had three excellent seasons, two of them with conference titles. It'll be three straight years in the tourney for her; Porter, we don't know yet, but we do know there'll be no conference title.

Jenny's teams have gotten better as each season has progressed and again, her portal additions have worked out. Porter, not so much on either point.

All of the excuses that have been offered to defend Porter's so far disappointing results applied to the women's team when Coach B. arrived on campus, but she has thrived. Texas, who was ranked #3 in the country, had the Sooners on the ropes more than once in tonight's game--they led by as much as 15 and the margin was double digits for much of the game. But the Sooner women play with grit and toughness and never give up. And they beat their rivals--her teams are 9-3 against texas and oswho. And this year's team goes 10-11 deep.

Her teams have been everything we hope the men's team can be--resilient, tough, fast-paced, entertaining, high-scoring, a good rebounding team. Overachieving.

Comparing women’s basketball to men’s basketball has to stop.

^THIS

Not even in the same universe. If you have a daughter or sister that plays/played, kudos to you, but for anyone that played at a higher level (AAU and up) it is not even close to the same conversation.

 

[WichitaSooner]

How is Moser not winning this year w a 19-9 record? What is your standard for winning? Is it to be as good as Kansas every year? If so, then Billy Tubbs is the only good coach Ou has ever had apparently.

We are essentially 11-9. We played 8 games that were essentially guaranteed wins. And we have at most three wins over teams that will make the tourney (2 if Providence doesn't make it.) So we are either 2-8 or 3-8 against the tourney field.

 

[schoonerdriver]

I know you are saying this somewhat tongue in cheek, but it’s very true. That strategy utilized the specific and somewhat rare skill set of a particular player on a night when OSU made life difficult on Najera. And like Kelvin said in the postgame quotes, it was a game plan that he wouldn’t have used earlier in the season because Johnson wouldn’t have been capable of delivering.

Meanwhile, Majerus lite keeps doing the same thing over and over. Walk it up the floor, no ball movement, tons of screens, and letting JM try to play one on one even though we now have 15 games of proof that he can’t do that successfully in this league. And as someone noted last week, it’s almost impossible to believe that we are largely using the same system we did when we had last year’s team, despite a significantly different roster with much different athleticism.

Out average margin of defeat is over 12 per game. That’s astounding in a league where everyone talks about how every game seemingly comes down to the wire. Take away the Tech game, and every one of our losses was functionally over with at least 5 minutes left.

A little humor. Everyone hated watching that back then but seeing what I see being done now and I have a new found appreciation for Kelvin saying our traditional offense isn't working. I have this mismatch, let's exploit it. With Moser, I have seen little to no adjustments being made. Others have made good points about the lack of ball pressure and turnovers to create easy buckets. I just can't watch our ball handlers dribble into the corner of a trapping defense and pick up their dribble. Over and over. Our offense seems to have evolved into a dribble heavy offense where I thought early in the season we were moving the ball much better.

 

[StoopsBros]

Mens basketball is more competitive than women’s. It takes far more commitment from the fans/donors to be a top men’s team. The best men’s teams are paying well over $1million per year in NIL alone. They all have good venues full of fans. Ou is not competitive in these factors w the top programs. Until that changes, it is ridiculous to expect us to be better than those programs.

You want some rumored NIL numbers?

Indiana - $4M (Liam McNeeley, for example, $700K)
Texas - $4M
Kentucky - $7M

Dayton's DaRon Holmes - $650K alone...Dayton's supposedly paying a tad over $1M collectively

Saint Louis - $750K (they suck, lol, but Travis Ford has almost always sucked)


and these are the rumored ranked budgets for the Big 12 this season...


Kansas
Texas

Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Houston

TCU
Cincy
Baylor
K-State
Iowa State
Oklahoma

UCF
OK State



-

take all of that with a grain of salt...but it comes from Trilly/discord community.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

No whining about the challenges inherent to OU--the oft-cited terrible arena, the football crazy fans, etc. Moser has whine... er, spoken frequently about the purported challenges coaching at OU presents. I've never heard Coach B. say anything about any of those factors. And yes, I've listened to her interviews. I've watched every single game and always listen to the postgame interviews. If you think Jennie mentions OU-specific challenges as often as Moser does, it's you who hasn't been listening.

I never said Moser doesn't care. What I said was, if NIL is the greatest obstacle he faces in the current environment, then perhaps that should get more of his attention than the frat house visits.

and yet you also admitted you don't know if he is or isn't giving attention to NIL lol

I just don't understand the thinking of ragging on Moser for visiting frat houses or trying to get an arena. It is utterly baffling to me to complain about this. Like you really think that this is causing interference with his coaching? You think it is a bad thing to focus on improving the program outside of the game itself?